Junkyard Jimmy Super Low Buck Build Thread

[hgs_notes]

Originally Posted by Lifetime Project 72

I have to say this is one of a few builds on this site that I look forward to.Your descriptions of what you are doing, plus all the pics are really inspirational.
To build a running truck on less than 4 grand is amazing!! I feel like going and getting a stud gun and slide hammer to pull the dents on my box sides,because of your excellent work!
And the fact its a GMC makes it so much better!
Looking forward to more great pics!

Chris

Thanks! As far as the stud gun goes, see if you can borrow one first. They are kinda spendy. I had nothing to loose banging the dents out, but time. I had replacement sheetmetal on hand to replace if needed so I could take the risk that most would be afraid to take.

Here's some pics. Front of the case, front output shaft retainer cover removed...


Back of the case with the rear output shaft and retainer removed, also the other covers removed.


The rear output shaft, that hole has 15 needle bearings in about 3 inches. Just use some grease in there and on the needles to get them back in place. There is just a washer and spring wire retainer holding them. I don't think I would have had to pull the shaft out all if I had removed the bearing from the retainer housing first. There are needle bearings in the retainer housing also.


Needle bearings and rear output shaft bearing. The haynes manual said there were 2 rows of 32 needles each, but mine had 1 row of about 45. The 1971 and 72 GM Chassis Manual has no info at all on the transfer case. There are web sites that show the breakdown also.


This is the speedo drive on the PTO cover. The speedo drive had no O-rings at all, and it wasn't even pictured on the t-case breakdown pics I had.


The gasket/seal kit I'm looking at will probably include the shifter rod seals, but I don't know if I can replace them withot pulling the shafts out, which would require pretty much a complete disassembly, which I'm trying to avoid. Hows that for a run on sentence? Anyway, I might just try to pull the seals with the shafts still in. They are at the top and not really a point for oil leakage out, but more to keep outside stuff from getting in. Probably won't get parts until next week. This weekend I'll pull the adapter off and see if I can get the tranny seal replaced and maybe strip some more paint and spray primer. Have to see what plans the wife has.

Happy New Year to you and yours!

[badpeanut]

Originally Posted by hgs_notes

This is the speedo drive on the PTO cover. The speedo drive had no O-rings at all, and it wasn't even pictured on the t-case breakdown pics I had.

My speedo drive sleeve had no seals either (and leaked horribly). I bought one of these from GM which includes a seal:

[Vintage Windmills]

You might want to get the np205 kit at NAPA. I went there looking for just the main input and output bearings and for a quality set of those, NAPA and other places were 100-160 for just those two. Well by the time you spend 100 for those and 125 for a gasket/seal kit, your at 225+ and don't have the other bearings and clips. Napa has a rebuild kit with gaskets, seals and quality SKF ball bearings for $250. I don't think it has the needle bearings but it looks otherwise complete. I'm hoping it has the 350 trans adapter seals. NAPA couldn't find those separately. I ordered the kit and it should be in on Wed. I'll let you know how it looks.

[hgs_notes]

Originally Posted by badpeanut

My speedo drive sleeve had no seals either (and leaked horribly). I bought one of these from GM which includes a seal:

Thanks for the tip.

Originally Posted by Vintage Windmills

You might want to get the np205 kit at NAPA. I went there looking for just the main input and output bearings and for a quality set of those, NAPA and other places were 100-160 for just those two. Well by the time you spend 100 for those and 125 for a gasket/seal kit, your at 225+ and don't have the other bearings and clips. Napa has a rebuild kit with gaskets, seals and quality SKF ball bearings for $250. I don't think it has the needle bearings but it looks otherwise complete. I'm hoping it has the 350 trans adapter seals. NAPA couldn't find those separately. I ordered the kit and it should be in on Wed. I'll let you know how it looks.

I'm looking at DTS-TSK205 for $30. My bearings are good.
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_cata...e_Illustration

[hgs_notes]

Did more running around today than anything. I pulled the adapter off the back end of the tranny. Simple enough, more oil on the floor.

There are 2 seals in the adapter. You have to remove the coupling sleeve and bearing to get to them. The snap ring holding the bearing is easy to get out. The one for the coupling is not unless you have a huge snap ring pliers. I don't, but know someone who does.

Front side, 1 seal is behind this bearing...


This is the snap ring that was troublesome...


Back side...


The coupling sleeve, it drops right out because the seals are hard and not really on the shaft anymore...


Front seal installed. Notice it is backwards from what a normal install is, so instead of tapping on the flat side of the seal, you have to use something on it to tap against. I used a thin piece of wood cut round to get the seal in flush with the outer edge of the hole. Then used a punch very carefully around the edge of the seal until it was in all the way.


The rear seal went in like the front. Here's a little info I hope will help others out there. The original seal is a National 480410, this is no longer available and the replacement is National 471424 or SKF 19762. They are not as thick, but otherwise fit just fine. Seems to be a common problem with these seals leaking. I've also read about an o-ring that fits in here somewhere, mine did not have one at all, so I'll have to keep researching.

I found a couple o-rings that will work for the speedo drive also. The small one fits a groove on the inside of the nut portion, the bigger one fit the outside of the threads where it will sit against the face of the t-case. I don't have size numbers so I'm just posting a pic on a ruler.


I found that there was a gasket set available from fel-pro, TS80324, but has been discontinued. Not having much luck finding a new number for that yet, but found a couple places that claim to stock it. Waiting to hear from drivetrain.com yet on what is included in their kit, and will also check with zbag.com because that is where a local mechanic gets all his parts. I've been to their shop and they are top notch.

Here's some ebay options too...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NP205-GM-DOD...item35b4a6ae5d
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-Chevy-Dod...item3366b07b72

This ones local with 100% positive feedback... http://www.ebay.com/itm/NP205-Transf...item336c01eb22

Just bought that last one, so done 'til tuesday or so. Unless I decide to strip paint. Yuck.

[litew8]

Not sure what gaskets you need; you could always make your own.
Edit, just clicked on one of the ebay links - that's a crap load of gaskets... too many to make eh

[Vintage Windmills]

Originally Posted by hgs_notes

Thanks for the tip.



I'm looking at DTS-TSK205 for $30. My bearings are good.
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_cata...e_Illustration

I wonder if the quality is there with that set? It just seems too cheap imo.

Thanks for the part number on the trans output adapter seals. Curious to hear if you find the gasket for that to trans.

Keep up the good work!

[hgs_notes]

Originally Posted by Vintage Windmills

I wonder if the quality is there with that set? It just seems too cheap imo.

Thanks for the part number on the trans output adapter seals. Curious to hear if you find the gasket for that to trans.

Keep up the good work!

That gasket but should be the same for all TH-350 tail stock pieces. I believe the tranny case is the same as a 2wd, it just has a t-case bolted where the tail piece is.

Higher cost doesn't always mean higher quality. Typical name brand seals are just $6-10 each retail. These things just have typical paper gaskets, not exotic materials, metal impregnating, or special crush thicknesses. Now adays with fairly cheap equipment to cut precise lines, gaskets are cheap to produce. If I saw a kit of gaskets and seals that were 3 times the cost of most of the competition, I'd have to question their sanity. Remember that this is just a transfer case, not some precision high speed gear box on a million dollar machine. I see those all the time in my job and frankly, those gear boxes use paper gaskets and off the shelf bearings and seals too.

Most manufacturers produce off brands and relabel the product for other companies and their own label. I've been to the plants and seen it myself. Everything from food to hardware. That being said, it is possible that the cheap seals are from taiwan or hong kong, but there is feed back on the ebay parts and not much for complaints. Fact is, many of the "name brand" parts are not produced here, or if they are, may not have the high standard of quality their original parts had to create that image of quality. So many labels have been bought over the years it's hard to know who's making them anymore.

Your earlier comment on buying the full rebuild kit makes sense if you need the bearings, even just one or 2, because you will probably have to break the whole thing down for a rebuild anyway, changing a couple more bearings is worth it at that point. This build however is completely on the cheap. Fixing what's broke, using cheap or used parts when available, doing everything possible myself. The cost of this build could have easily doubled or tripled based on parts sourcing and not cutting corners where I thought I could get away with it. If I had to drive this truck all the time and had to rely on it, well, this is the wrong kind of vehicle for that.

[Tynee]

Originally Posted by hgs_notes

If I had to drive this truck all the time and had to rely on it, well, this is the wrong kind of vehicle for that.

Do you just mean buying one from the JY and building it on the cheap, or do you mean a 40 year old truck of any pedigree? I drive mine every day, and would drive it anywhere I had to. Of course, I probably don't drive the kind of miles you do...

[hgs_notes]

litew8, I was kidding about the link. But it might be good for some of the thread lurkers out there. I learned how to make gaskets back in the navy and will occassionally make them still.

Making a list of seals. Here's what I have so far (I'll update as I finish the repair)...
National:
473468 rear output shaft seal
710005 front output shaft seal
471424 adapter seals (need 2)
2287 shifter shaft seals (need 2)
471869 input shaft seal

ATP SO-22 tranny to adapter (or extension housing) O-ring

[litew8]

right on

[Dieselwrencher]

If anyone's ever in a pinch for a gasket, pop case boxes and beer can cases make excellent gasket paper when you have nothing else.

[litew8]

Now that's cheaper than my 5 buck solution (a low buck ideology)... does not compute.

[Vintage Windmills]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

If anyone's ever in a pinch for a gasket, pop case boxes and beer can cases make excellent gasket paper when you have nothing else.

I recommend cutting the gaskets out before you have finished consuming the case of beer

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by Vintage Windmills

I recommend cutting the gaskets out before you have finished consuming the case of beer

LMAO! Good point.

[hgs_notes]

Got my gasket set today, so hopefully I'll be able to get it all back together this weekend. The set includes the gasket between the t-case and adapter and the o-ring that goes on the input shaft. While I was driving around today for work and thinking about it, I wonder why there isn't a drain or vent for the adapter so when the seal goes bad in there it gives an indication, like the weep hole on a water pump. There is a vent on the differential and t-case, so it's not like they left it off to keep it dry or whatever.

The problem I find, is that when the tranny side seal goes bad it leaks tranny fluid all the way to the transfer case until it fills up and either leaks out the vent on top, the speedo drive, or other seals. I know the added fluid doesn't really hurt the t-case, but it probably effects gas mileage being completely filled all the time and adds pressure to the t-case seals as it heats up while driving (harder to vent the fluid than a little air). It leaves a mess on the driveway and you really can't narrow it down to any one seal. And you have to keep adding tranny fluid just to drive it.

Thing is, those seals can be replaced pretty easy. Only takes about an hour to pull out the transfer case. With the right snap ring pliers it takes about 5 minutes to change those adapter seals. Another hour or 2 to re-install. Nothing needs to be done on the transfer case. If you want, the seals in the output shafts can be replaced with the case installed. From what I've read the seals in the adapter are a common leak point. Anyway, just thinking out loud here. My job is to identify problem areas in production lines and help find solutions to prevent those problems, so I'm just letting my work seep into my hobby a bit.

[Tynee]

What an interesting job. I'd be horrible at it, because my default mindset is to find a way around the problem through revised processes, as opposed to finding mechanical fixes. I'm really prone to doing things the hard way instead of thinking through the easy way to do them.

[hgs_notes]

Originally Posted by Tynee

What an interesting job. I'd be horrible at it, because my default mindset is to find a way around the problem through revised processes, as opposed to finding mechanical fixes. I'm really prone to doing things the hard way instead of thinking through the easy way to do them.

It is an interesting job. Sometimes it's not about mechanical fixes though. We look at procedures and contingency planning, predictive maintenance practices, etc. You would probably do just fine with your mindset.

Got a machine that is required for more than 75% of your plants production with a $500,000/day profit? There better be a back up plan, spare parts for anything with a long lead time, oil testing, vibration analysis, infrared imaging and extra capacity in the supporting equipment. Can you run limited production without it? Things like that.

I get to ask the question, what happens if your boiler explodes? And I'm serious about it. I have a very sensitive BS detector built in and a calibrated eyeball...

[Tynee]

Do you do this for a specific employer at multiple facilities, or are you a consultant/ employed by a consulting firm?

[hgs_notes]

I work for an insurance company. We do this to protect us from huge claims and to help our custumers.
Posted via Mobile Device

[hgs_notes]

Back to the build. Got the transfer case back together with the new seals in. Just needed to torque all the bolts correctly and while moving the case around on the bench, I found a needle bearing. Nice. Just have to figure out which set it belongs too, since it never got counted during disassembly. My manual has a different series of t-case and the bearings are different, so it's no help. Both sets use the same size roller, but they are a different size shaft, so different number of needles. Fun. At least it'll be easy enough to pull off the covers and check it out, but still a pain.

The new O-ring between the adapter and tranny won't get here until monday. And I have to see if I can get a couple easy sleeves for the output yokes because the area on them where the shaft rides is scored. Either have to sleeve them or replace them. I'll post pics later, camera is still in the garage.

[hgs_notes]

Follow up pics on the t-case. First shows the front output shaft, second shows the rear. You can see the grooving in the polished area of the yokes where the seal rides. If it's not fixed it will probably leak a bit right away, then then worse quickly as the seal gets chewed up.



Today I just worked on stripping paint on the driver bedside. Fun fun fun. Just 4 hours with a cheap drill and a 3M paint remover disc. The great news is there were no more surprises under the paint and hardly a ding in the entire panel. All there is to do to finish this side is a small amount of filler in the tail light area and primer it. Blocking will show any imperfections but it looks real good so far.

[Vintage Windmills]

Mike, curious to see if you easy sleeve these. For what its worth: do you remember the trans adapter sleeve of mine that had slight wear? For what its worth the engine rebuilder said mine is fine as is. I will probably just put in the lathe at work at polish a little just to be safe.

[hgs_notes]

Originally Posted by Vintage Windmills

Mike, curious to see if you easy sleeve these. For what its worth: do you remember the trans adapter sleeve of mine that had slight wear? For what its worth the engine rebuilder said mine is fine as is. I will probably just put in the lathe at work at polish a little just to be safe.

I figured yours would be alright and a little polishing wont hurt. I think my rear output yoke can be used with some polishing, just has a slight groove. The front one is pretty bad though.

Napa can get the sleeves for around $40, which I thought was high, so searched rockauto.com and they have National Redi-sleeve #99174 for $23.79. For the rear output yoke the National redi-sleeve is #99212 for you readers that may need it.

Out of curiosity I wanted to see how much a new yoke was. Kind of hard to track down the actual part# but I eventually found it, Spicer 2-4-4021x and the price ranges from around $70 up to $165. No bargains there. I wonder how far you can turn down a shaft and still keep a good seal on it. If I had it turned down to remove the grooving and it was .030 under would it still seal? Maybe, not sure. Probably about the same cost as the redi-sleeve though.

There are also kits available that swap the front output shaft to a 32 spline unit with a stronger yoke for people that want to upgrade.

[Vintage Windmills]

Mike, there are 46 needles in the one by the speedo drive gear and 41 in the aluminum/potmetal cover.