|
07-20-2019, 01:20 AM | #1 |
Post Whore
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,849
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
After many many hours... Victory, victory!
|
07-20-2019, 01:28 AM | #2 |
Post Whore
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,849
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
sometimes you have to treat yourself to keep the motivation going, am I right?
Introducing the Lokar X ATS 6 4L60E B B (pronounced: "Black Transmission Mounted 4L60E 16 Inch Long Single Bend Lever with the Black Mushroom Knob") Now I really wanted the Bench Bend lever aka stick but they were on back order so I did what any patient car enthusiast would do, I ordered the next available model, ha ha Level of Excitement (LoE) = Front Porch Unboxing aka High! |
07-20-2019, 01:51 AM | #3 |
Post Whore
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,849
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
My new Lokar shifter for the 4L60E does not clear the Manual Lever Position Sensor (MLPS) plastic module thingie on the driver's side, I think some may call it the neutral switch
the shifter comes with a neutral switch however it does not offer a backup lights switch the MLPS has a backup light switch, and it feeds info back to the PCM and it also has a Transmission Range Sensor plug in my wiring harness that goes to the MLPS, so it's not something I want to delete. Update: Emailed Lokar Tech Support and Travis asked to see some pictures, fair enough, so I sent him some, can you see how in the first two pics that top hole is not above the black plastic box behind it, aka the MLPS, well that's the problem the darn rod end needs to go between that shift lever and the black box and there's no way it's gonna fit. Their instructions show it installed without the MLPS, however clearly state you do not need to remove it. Thanks for feeling my pain you all, I expected more from a glossy page catalog outfit, ha ha. Last edited by Gregski; 07-20-2019 at 02:03 AM. |
07-20-2019, 01:58 AM | #4 |
Post Whore
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,849
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
heard back from Lokar Tech Support, Travis said reverse the bolt on the transmission shifter, (um ok, that's exactly precisely what the instructions tell you NOT to do, but ok)
I also tried extending out the shifter rod by using a 3" long pivot bolt on the shifter lever side but still no dice, the angle of the shifter rod still rubs against that black switch box |
07-20-2019, 02:06 AM | #5 |
Post Whore
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,849
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
fellow Square Body enthusiasts let me ask for your biased opinion.
If you paid almost $300 bucks for a part that claimed to be a direct fit for your make and model, would you agree that it was so, if you had to buy additional parts and cut, grind, and WELD - to make it work? The Lokar XATS64L60EBB shifter (please note the 4L60E in the part number!) please no need to hate on the welder, ha ha he forgot to adjust his spark machine settings from welding something much thicker (that's my excuse anyway, in addition to that I sux) |
07-20-2019, 02:12 AM | #6 |
Post Whore
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,849
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
after going back and forth with Lokar tech support, they basically said put a Z bend in it, I asked them if they have any examples (pics) of this thing being installed on a 4L60E transmission with the Neutral switch module on it, and they said NO.... (Great)
so I decided to take matters into my own hands... |
07-20-2019, 02:16 AM | #7 |
Post Whore
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,849
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
Layed out the 4.8L thinned out wiring harness and plugged it all in, not a fan of the factory routing, it's like going from LA to SF via NY, ha ha.
So going to re route the crank position sensor to hit that from the back, know what I'm sayin' Also going to re route the passenger side injector bank to run towards the firewall, ie backside. Would like to see the main trunk run along the firewall behind the brake booster and over to the driver side inner fender, but we'll see how it goes. Allow me to bring you around the engine bay! getting excited |
07-20-2019, 02:19 AM | #8 |
Post Whore
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,849
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
a sign you've completely lost your mind
Pic 1 - diaherea Pic 2 - Group Dingus this is a view as if you were standing on the driver side right at the front fender wheel well and the connectors were at your waist, so the two strands on the left are the injectors, then the MAF at the top, and the Trans to your right Rules of The Game: Allow yourself to fail! Don't mind doing things over to get them right ... I forget! |
07-20-2019, 02:22 AM | #9 |
Post Whore
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,849
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
I realize this seems like Overkill and maybe slightly unconventional but I can't explain what happens between the living room and the garage which is 20 feet away, stuff just gets dangled beyond recognition, if you know what I'm sayin'
|
07-21-2019, 09:38 AM | #10 |
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wentworth, NH
Posts: 4,975
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
Go to the Borg and get the 1,000 count bag of 4" cable ties. I use them to neaten up and bundle wiring harnesses.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerci...00MB/203531926 I use the Paladin/Greenlee 1828 cable tie gun but you can cinch them up by hand and use a pair of sharp good quality flush cutting electronics dikes to cut the tails off flush with the tabs. Split poly will slide right over the small wire ties. The Paladin 1828 tool is around $25. It puts the exact same tension on every tie and cuts them off flush in one fell swoop but they're pricey. A good set of dikes like Hakko CHP-170s are $6. The Xcelite 175-M dikes are $20 but they aren't any better than the Hakko dikes.
__________________
1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. |
07-21-2019, 10:22 AM | #11 | |
Post Whore
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,849
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
Quote:
|
|
07-22-2019, 11:52 PM | #12 |
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wentworth, NH
Posts: 4,975
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
A Z-bend right where the weldment is placed would do the job. They look purdy too.
__________________
1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. |
07-28-2019, 11:29 AM | #13 |
Post Whore
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,849
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
Wiring Part Deux (... Progress) - a lot of folks find wiretization intimidating that's why I would like to share the steps I am going through to re route the harness in my beloved '74 GMC, rather than just sharing before and after pics
Findings: in this driver side inner fender PCM layout your reach will be dictated by the following sensor wires: Alternator Throttle Position Sensor Idle Air Control Do Hickey basically all the sensors on the nose of the engine, but the good news is that we will have enough reach! MAF just shown for completion, a coin toss will determine actual placement, ha ha I do plan on shortening and repining the longer wires to clean up the last foot of the harness aka the birds nest |
07-28-2019, 11:34 AM | #14 |
Post Whore
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,849
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
Grounds Demystified
having liberated all of my ground wires from my 2001 GMC Sierra 4.8L 4L60E engine wiring harness, I learned that only the following four components use what I call external/dedicated wire grounds: 1. Coils 2. Oxygen Sensors (some don't use a separate ground wire, but ground by housing contacting the down pipe) 3. MAF 4. MLPS (Transmission Neutral Switch / Range Sensor) In addition the PCM itself consumes four grounds: 1. Blue Connector PIN # 1 2. Blue Connector PIN # 40 3. Red Connector PIN # 1 4. Red Connector PIN # 40 To roll our own Fuse/Relay block we borrow one of the extra grounds from something that got deleted, and we do the same for the little OBDII port, it too needs a dedicated ground The following sensors get their grounds from the PCM I call these internal grounds: 1. Blue Connector Crank Shaft Position Sensor PIN #21 2. Blue Connector PRND Trans PIN #32 3. Blue Connector Transmission #41 4. Blue Connector Throttle Position Sensor PIN #54 5. Blue Connector Camshaft Position Sensor PIN #61 6. Blue Connector Coolant Temp Sensor PIN #63 7. Red Connector IAT Sensor PIN #57 |
07-28-2019, 11:40 AM | #15 |
Post Whore
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,849
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
just wanted to share some progress pics of my engine wiring harness re routing, really like how it is turning out although it does not happen over night, but a little each night, best part is that no lengthening of wires required to reach the PCM on the driver side inner fender = Win!
Although I unpinned all the wires and re routed them I opted for the lay it over method rather than cutting and recrimping new terminals on the extra long ones, I just didn't feel I had the skills to match the factory crimps, mea culpa! I still might could cut and solder the really long wires, we'll see. The following PINs / Wires were left in on the BLUE CONNECTOR to roll your own fuse/realy block, gauges, etc. 19 Pink - Key on power 20 Orange - Allways hot power 33 Purple - TCC Brake Switch 57 Orange - Allways hot power 58 Dark Green - OBDII port 57 Orange - Allways hot power 75 Pink - Key on power The following PINs / Wires were left in on the RED CONNECTOR to roll your own fuse/realy block, gauges, etc. 9 Dark Green/White - Fuel Pump Relay 10 White - Tach 46 Check Engine Light 50 Dark Green/White - Speedo |
07-28-2019, 11:45 AM | #16 |
Post Whore
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,849
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
Wired up my LS starter (it's an iddy bitty thang) last night and got the engine to turn over by turning the key in the ignition switch. I like taking baby steps and not taking on everything at once, so I will share what I did to make this happen, I know this is super easy, but here it goes if for nothing else to hear myself say it, but it may help someone out:
(battery stays in the OEM location on the passenger side) 1) Main thick black battery cable goes from the negative battery terminal to the front of the passenger side cylinder head. (hole in OEM battery cable terminal had to be enlarged slightly to accommodate the metric head bolt) [just for completion in addition a skinny black wire runs from the battery negative terminal to the radiator core support, to ground the chassis - that's unchanged] 2) Main thick red battery cable goes from the positive battery terminal to the thick stud on the new LS starter. [that's nice, but nothing happens at this point, yet] 3) In keeping with tradition, we run a medium thick red wire (yes that is a technical gauge description in my book, ha ha) from that same thick stud on the starter in #2 above to the bulk head black little square box on your firewall by the brake booster. This supplies main power to the cockpit. [at this point if we was to turn the key, our gauge cluster should light up, but that's about it... oh and our annoying always on fan will start to blow... Joy!] 4) at this point power goes from the battery to the starter (logically that is not necessarily how the electrons flow, but don't tell my Biology teacher, hee hee) and then daisy chains from the starter to the bulk head, and more specifically to the ignition switch on the steering column (no not where you insert the key... but below) ok but still no clicky click on the starter, unitl ... [wait for it] ... until we run the purple wire from the bulk head black little box on the firewall by the brake booster back to the starter's skinny winnie stud. This purple wire is the "signal" wire it tell the solenoid (aka electronic switch) on the starter when to turn ON the starter. ... and that's it folk's aside from the battery cables, it's just a two wire hookup, the red and the purple wires. I know I made this silly but I hope it helps out the OverThinkers(TM) I blew up my bulk head / fuse block to show you that the red and purple wires are just pass through and do not feed the fuse block directly, I actually like to divorce them from that box and run em through a different hole in the firewall and not the bulkhead. |
07-28-2019, 12:21 PM | #17 | |
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wentworth, NH
Posts: 4,975
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
Quote:
GM didn't put a lot of circuits in the 1973/74 bulkhead plug. The 79 & later trucks had a lot more realestate in that plug along with ATC/ATO fuses rather than glass cartriges... It does take a little body work to fit the larger bulkhead plug tho.
__________________
1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. Last edited by hatzie; 07-28-2019 at 12:28 PM. |
|
07-28-2019, 12:56 PM | #18 | |
Post Whore
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,849
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
Quote:
|
|
07-28-2019, 12:00 PM | #19 |
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wentworth, NH
Posts: 4,975
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
If you're re-pinning a lot of connections you'll want a decent set of crimp tools...
The most versatile pair of crimp tools in my terminal box are the five cavity two operation Delphi 12085270 & 12085271. They are priced around $100 each but they will properly crimp most of the automotive and powersport connector terminals I've run into... From Packard 56/59 and Weatherpak or Metripak 150/280/480/630 to Molex GT150 and Mate-n-locks on ATVs and Mowers. The single crimp operation tools are connector specific and just as much money as these tools that crimp the insulation and the conductor in separate operations. 12085270 with three insulation seal crimp cavities and two conductor cavities. 12085271 with three conductor cavities and two insulation wing cavities. The odd stuff like the old Delphi double width Packard 56 & 59 two-wire and Pak Con two-wire terminals and there's another tool for the Packard 56/59 & Metripak 630 10-12ga terminals but I'd only buy em if you need em. Mine are infrequently used but I needed them for a couple jobs. The customers got to pay extra for the odd tooling I needed and now I have em. For the Deutsch DTP, DT, & DTM and Amphenol CPC machined pin connectors I use the Daniels Military Aircraft tools AF8 & AFM8. You can get open wing terminals for the Deutsch DT & DTM, Canon, and AMP CPC families that will crimp in the Delphi tools but the eight indent Mil crimp on machined barrel terminals produces a fast zero defect field repair and I don't have to worry about the quality of the terminals. I use the snot out of these tools. I bought them used. Daniels will re-calibrate and repair them for a pretty reasonable fee should I ever need that service.
__________________
1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. Last edited by hatzie; 07-28-2019 at 12:18 PM. |
07-30-2019, 08:48 AM | #20 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PNW
Posts: 3,615
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
Is this something you would need to get from one of the "neighborhood, outdoor, drive-up retailers"? Or is it available if you get the right prescription?
Good work hatzie, again thanks for putting the information out here for us to use. I'm a big fan of having the right tool to do the job well. |
07-30-2019, 11:18 AM | #21 | |
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wentworth, NH
Posts: 4,975
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
Quote:
https://www.te.com/commerce/Document...ish&s_cid=1046 I work on electronic systems on Public Transit vehicles... both rubber and iron tire. I've encountered both the Amphenol and Canon plugs at work. Can't say I love either one but I can deal with them. The right tooling makes things so much easier. Keeping the actual tool count down when I fly with them is a must. There's still a 3 bag and 70lb per bag limit at check in for Diamond Four Million Milers.
__________________
1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. Last edited by hatzie; 07-30-2019 at 11:30 AM. |
|
07-28-2019, 02:06 PM | #22 |
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wentworth, NH
Posts: 4,975
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
Weatherpak Connectors are not rated for the current a 12ga wire can carry. Even tho Delphi provides terminals sized for 12ga wire the connector itself can only safely carry 15-20A max.
https://www.whiteproducts.com/faqs.shtml Metripak 150 are rated at 14A Metripak 280 are rated at 30A Metripak 480 are rated at 42A Metripak 630 are rated at 46A Metripak 800 are rated at 60A https://www.whiteproducts.com/metripack-faqs.shtml If you're going to the trouble of crimping on a new terminal just crimp on a Male Packard 56 or 59 and eliminate the extra connection... IIRC the 12ga power wire is a 59 terminal but don't quote me on it. The bulkhead studs are a great place to connect with common ring terminals and a fusible link.
__________________
1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. |
07-28-2019, 08:26 PM | #23 | |
Post Whore
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,849
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
Quote:
|
|
07-28-2019, 09:39 PM | #24 |
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wentworth, NH
Posts: 4,975
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
Less than that on the purple wire. Probably more like 1 Amp. It's energizing an electromagnet coil in the starter solenoid... basically a big ole high current relay.
If you're using the PCM controlled starter wiring from the LS donor it's probably of the order of 5-10 ma to the starter enable on the PCM and 150 ma to the relay in the fuse-relay centre. It may really only be slightly more than that for the Delco MT starter solenoid S terminal but I tend to pad stuff out the nearest amp for safety. The only reason to use 18ga wire for the starter solenoid S terminal is vibration resistance. You could likely send the energize current over 24ga wire and not worry about it if you didn't have to worry about vibration and such.
__________________
1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. |
07-28-2019, 09:48 PM | #25 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: North-central Virginia
Posts: 1,104
|
Re: Restoring Rusty
Quote:
Is there any problem with running these milliamp loads through the old square body switches? For example, using the stock ignition switch to trigger only relays instead of actual loads? Reason I ask, it seems that a very small electrical load might not "spark" the gap on a crude switch. But then, if a multimeter can sense the switch, I guess a relay or the pcm should sense it as well.
__________________
1987 C6P V20 truck, 2010 LMG 5.3, AFM delete, 2010 Camaro exhaust manifolds, 1997 nv4500, 1991 np241c, hydroboost, 2005 14bff axle & driveshaft, drop-n-lock gooseneck, 4.10 gears, stock suspension, rims, and tires. Still a work in progress. Any questions or suggestions are welcome! |
|
Bookmarks |
|
|