Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build

[Bomp]

Might fit better with a bell crank set up. Are you planning on running stock gauges?

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by Bomp

Might fit better with a bell crank set up. Are you planning on running stock gauges?

Stock gauges and column.

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by theastronaut

CPP hubs came in today. Just need rotors so I can make caliper brackets.

I'm looking forward to watching that happen.

[zippeay]

Killer build! I used to Live in Sumter SC. I used to work with Mr Scrapes, he did most of the bags and hydro setups around there. Not sure if he's still around, I haven't been back there for almost 10 years...
Great job! I dig your motor! Here I thought I was being cool with a tripower haha!

[theastronaut]

Rotors came in today. I weighed everything except the pads and caliper brackets (don't have those yet) to compare to the old disc conversion stuff. Wasn't expecting the bigger brakes to be lighter, but they'll shave about five pounds off each side. Not much overall, but it's all unsprung weight so it makes a bigger difference.



12" Disc Conversion Parts:

• Spindle/Rotor Assembly- 55 pounds

• Caliper.- 10 pounds, 3.7 oz

65 Pounds, 3.7 oz each side.



New parts:

• Rotor 28 pounds, 4.0 oz

• Caliper 8 pounds 14.9 oz

• Hub 5 pounds, 2.0 oz

• Spindle 18 pounds, 0.9 oz

60 pounds, 5.8 oz

[theastronaut]

Got to work on 'Locks a little yesterday. Got the rack and pinion bolted in and set the frame rails on 4x4" tubing. I want that to be the normal ride height, maybe slightly more if it scrapes too much. The lowest point on my '64 VW is 2.75 and it rarely bottoms out so I think 4" will be plenty.




Mocked up the lower bag mount height with another 4x4" block, which leave the bag at 4.75". Is that compressed too much? The max compressed height is 2.8" aired out, but I can't find info on the minimum bag height at ride height.




Also built a stand to work on the caliper brackets. It looks like one of the bolt holes in the spindle will line up already, and I'll only have to make a bracket for the bottom holes.




I had to plug a leak in my sister's TBSS tire so while it was off I checked to see how well 20's with a decent size sidewall would fit... way too tall. I don't want rubber band sidewalls so it looks like I'll be doing 18's.




And speaking of wheels, I ran across this picture of CCW classics in the perfect color- brushed translucent bronze. They're three pieced forged so they're light and they're relatively inexpensive compared to most other three piece forged wheels. Can be built in just about any size/offset and they can make sure that they'll clear the calipers without using spacers.

[Bomp]

Originally Posted by theastronaut

Mocked up the lower bag mount height with another 4x4" block, which leave the bag at 4.75". Is that compressed too much? The max compressed height is 2.8" aired out, but I can't find info on the minimum bag height at ride height

Not to question your calculations on your build cause you got it going on Serious.
How much air pressure will you be needing to maintain the 4.75" height? Will it be too soft, too hard? If you take a corner aggressively will you suffer from body roll?
Depending on the driving situation, weight in the truck, freeway, in town, track, winding scenic road out in the country, that usually plays a big part in desired bag pressure. May have to adjust bag height to accomplish desired comfort in ride quality.


I have this info bookmarked from 67c10rustbucket: Info I refer back to now and again.

Originally Posted by 67c10rustbuket

generally everyone uses a (firestone) 2600# bags front and rear on a full size chevy, and firestone 2500# on front of an s10 or other mini w/ 2600# on the rear . some use 2500# all the way around on a mini so they can carry 1 extra bag instead of 2 different ones.
as for your truck i would use a 2600# firestone (re7 equivalent i think) for front and rear. on the front you want a bag that will put the suspension at full lift without stretching the bag. if you use a bag that only gives you 6" of lift without locking the front suspension up you will stretch the outboard side of the bag. example if you use a 2500# bag on the front of a full size truck you will get less lift but it will require higher pressure and the outboard side of the bag will be stretched and eventually rip or blow. if you think about it the inner side of the bag does not lift as far as the outer because its closer to the pivot point. and if you get a smaller bag that only lifts the front to 6" it will ride like your sitting on a brick at 6". you have to have a little extra up/down travel from your desired height to make a comfortable ride.
a smaller bag requires more pressure to lift than a larger bag. more volume uses less pressure, . in a full size truck your pressure to achieve desired ride height should be around 90-100 psi front and 40-50 psi rear depending on weight . assuming thats a small block, a big block would require more like 120+ psi to lift the front. also at full drop the bags should be fully compressed (3" i think between mounts cups whatever) if the bags are not fully compressed this will cause you to use excess pressure to lift the truck.
weight , bag volume, lift angle/position, all change the general psi of lift.
if you only want 6ish" in the rear it would be best to use over the axle mounts rather than in the stock spring location and the bags will last longer due to them being worked in a more direct up/down motion. in the stock spring location the will be inflated on an arch where the rear side of the bag will be lifting higher than the front.
I have used upper and lower "cups" but i prefer plates on the bottom that bolt to the control arm because the recess in the control arm does not have a consistent depth due to the shape of the coil spring. there will be a lower spot where the end of the coil must be clocked into so the recess is not flat in the bottom so the cups can wabble around. not to mention that when deflated the bag will squish out the sides (like a flat tire) so its nice to have a flat surface for it to squish on instead of a sharp edge of a cup (depending on the diameter of the cup).
another thing to think about most first timers mess up is the air bag may fit into the spring pocket just fine when its new and un-inflated but when you inflate it it will not only inflate up it will stretch outward so make sure you have close to 1/2 inch clearance around the bag to spring pocket. this is a huge problem on s10s.
I think most retailers websites list the specs of the bags they are selling i know i used to check them out as far as compressed height, full lift height, suggested ride height, bag material ply, weight lifting capacity, max psi, etc..
the truck looks awesome and theres nothing wrong with a big fat Z as long as its all aligned and welded properly. nice project !

I've read a few articles. Info you probably already know.
http://www.ridetech.com/info/pressur...eight-control/
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...rod/prd131.htm
http://toplinehb.com/auto-repair/hig...ension-setups/

Not sure if any of this will help.
Sure do have a truck load of cool stuff going on.
Keep it up cause your build info is really helpful on my build.

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by Bomp

Not to question your calculations on your build cause you got it going on Serious.
How much air pressure will you be needing to maintain the 4.75" height? Will it be too soft, too hard? If you take a corner aggressively will you suffer from body roll?
Depending on the driving situation, weight in the truck, freeway, in town, track, winding scenic road out in the country, that usually plays a big part in desired bag pressure. May have to adjust bag height to accomplish desired comfort in ride quality.


I have this info bookmarked from 67c10rustbucket: Info I refer back to now and again.



I've read a few articles. Info you probably already know.
http://www.ridetech.com/info/pressur...eight-control/
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...rod/prd131.htm
http://toplinehb.com/auto-repair/hig...ension-setups/

Not sure if any of this will help.
Sure do have a truck load of cool stuff going on.
Keep it up cause your build info is really helpful on my build.

Those are the exact questions running through my head. I think the pressure will be too low since the bag will be pretty short at only 4.75", they'll go all the way up to about 12". I'm thinking that I'll need to cut and raise the upper mounting area 2-3" so the bag will be taller. Then I can add shims under the bag if I need to adjust the bag height/pressure at a certain ride height.

[likaroc13]

I'm no good for helping with the technical info, but I just wanted to say it's good to see you getting back on it.

[aggie91]

Everything I have read about ride height and air bags, is the bag should be set at a height that is in the middle of the stoke fo the bag.

If the bag has a 2.5" compressed height and the max extended height is 12", then the bag at ride height should be close to 8.375".

For a lot of the 2600# bags on the market that I have looked at, the ride height is between 6.5"-7.5".

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by likaroc13

I'm no good for helping with the technical info, but I just wanted to say it's good to see you getting back on it.

Yeah it's good to be back on it!! We started working 4-10's so I have Fridays off now; Friday is Goldilocks day!

Originally Posted by aggie91

Everything I have read about ride height and air bags, is the bag should be set at a height that is in the middle of the stoke fo the bag.

If the bag has a 2.5" compressed height and the max extended height is 12", then the bag at ride height should be close to 8.375".

For a lot of the 2600# bags on the market that I have looked at, the ride height is between 6.5"-7.5".

The mounts I made today will put it right around 6.75".

[theastronaut]

Chopped the crossmember today to raise the bag mount area. I need to get some plate and 10" pipe to box the area in. At this point I've realized I would have been better off to buy a No Limit WideRide crossmember...


2" cut out.









7" tall now. That'll shrink a little once I plate the mounting pad but it's a major improvement!

[mcbassin]

Very nice work as always.

[theastronaut]

Got an update from Jason on the speedo lens today!

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by mcbassin

Very nice work as always.

Appreciate it!

[chad64chevy]

lens looks great, always top notch detail

[theastronaut]

No real updates other than I've been buying parts. Bought a set of Porterbuilt 1" forward and 1" narrowed A-arms this week. Haven't had time to build my own and these will do everything I was wanting to do except for having a little extra drop at the bag mount for bag spacers. Maybe raising the upper mount will create enough room that I can still shim the bag if needed.

Been picking up NOS parts when I can find them at reasonable prices- not into dealing with aftermarket junk if I don't have to! So far found a pair of '66 Fawn armrests, interior mirror mount, and an anodized grill. Another find was a pair of NOS offset stud mirror heads. They're not GM but are identical. I also bought a pair of NOS chrome bumper guards that had a fair amount of shelf wear but I couldn't bring myself to use them for what I have in mind...

So instead I bought a pair of used guards to cut up. Wanting to shorten them a few inches to take some of their bulk away, always thought that they just looked to tall to fit the proportions of our trucks.

[Bomp]

Great Score on all the parts!!!!

[duallyjams]

That's some great finds.

[pdxhall]

It's good to see you back at it. That's a nice group of parts you've accumulated. I don't even want you to tell me what you paid for that grill. If it was a real good deal I'll feel terrible that you got it and I didn't and if you paid a lot, then I'll be discouraged about ever finding one I can afford. It is a killer find, though. Let's get back to some of that quality work you put out.

[theastronaut]

Thanks dudes. Been wanting to get back on it, just been busy with everything else lately. The VW broke a valve spring so it's out for repairs and upgrades (can't leave anything alone!). Hoping for another 30-40 hp with a cam and heads swap. It should be back together in a few weeks. Was going to autocross it at Goodguys Charlotte this weekend if this hadn't happened.

The PB arms should be here Monday. I'll get templates to plate the upper bag mounts and have a fab shop bend the filler plates next week. Should have the front rolling again soon.

Pdxhaull, the grill was a good deal- I happened to be on Ebay at just the right time. Matching bezels will be impossible to find though.

[theastronaut]

Porterbuilt arms came today so I did a quick test fit.

[duallyjams]

did you weigh the old verses the new

I always thought with the bumper guards being tall was for adding a grill bar between them, look forward to seeing you shorten them up.

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by duallyjams

did you weigh the old verses the new

I always thought with the bumper guards being tall was for adding a grill bar between them, look forward to seeing you shorten them up.

Haven't weighed them yet. Got to come back apart for new ball joints and paint so I'll do it then.

[theastronaut]

Taller upper ball joints from QA1 came today. I'll get those bolted in and the correct lower ball joints pressed in next week. I talked with a local machine shop about designing and machining a set of caliper brackets; he's interested so I'll drop off the parts with him this week. Final mock up should be soon! Then on to the rear suspension.

Still haven't decided on an axle. It'll need to be fully floating to prevent pad knock back since the calipers are fixed. I'd like to build a Trailblazer EXT axle since the center section is aluminum. With chromoly axle tube pressed in they're roughly 50 pounds lighter than a 9" or 12 bolt.