The Story Of A Cummins Suburban (Lots Of Pics)

[DirtyLarry]

Dude, quit with the chit chat and on with the pictures already! Geesh! Where’d dem danm pics!?

[mosesburb]

I'm actually loading some as I type right now. Where are the rest of yours??

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by jbclassix

The second link in my signature
Posted via Mobile Device

Looks like fun. What's up with your Sub these days??

[kikkegek]

Originally Posted by mosesburb

I'm actually loading some as I type right now. Where are the rest of yours??

[71CumminsBurb]

Originally Posted by mosesburb

The whole fuel system is covered in this thread, so I am not sure what part of it you are asking about.

Ive been through the thread a bunch of times but I guess I missed it. I did just find the lift pump you swapped but still cant find the rest of the system from there back...

I did a bunch of research to figure out the correct mounting point on the pedal and then referenced all of my mounting points off of it.

Would you mind sharing a pic or two? Mine is mounted almost identically as yours, albeit slightly right towards the fender. MAybe the save unit Im using got damaged when I pulled it from the donor truck ...?

I got rid of the 4.10's a couple years ago (it's in the thread here somewhere). I am running 3.73 gears now. With a 33" tire, I think it is perfect, but I can't say about a 35 or 36. If you do the math and find 4.10's with your tire diameter turn about the same as 3.73's with 33's then it will work at least as well as mine which I think is very good.

I remember reading about the van rear end...for whatever reason i was thinking it was 4.10's....

Hydroboost is worth every minute and dollar it took to install. I have never met a properly functioning hydroboost setup that I did not like. Buy a new one or a take-out from a late model truck--never a reman. Use a factory replacement hose or have some made at a hydraulic hose company. The hoses that are sold at almost every parts store are made by a company called Edelmann. They are re-boxed into many different boxes, but they are all of the same crap stock. OE hose from GM or Mopar are quality, as are custom hoses from the hydraulic hose joints, but the other is junk out of the box. You will find that unless you set your motor very high, you will not have room for two vacuum pods, only one--the lower one. The one that hangs on the side will hit the frame rail. This leaves a situation of only having half of the vac available. If either of these are bad, one NEW (not rebuilt--seeing a pattern yet??) cost more than a hydroboost unit--seriously. I'm not sure I would put a vacuum booster on anything I am building anymore--even a passenger car. I like hydroboost.

I've got room for the double vacuum unit. I know this because its mounted on the motor, which is in the truck already. I think i may forgo the work of swapping it for now, mostly for the sake of getting this thing on the road sooner rather than later. The hydroboost unit I have is in a 72 blazer, mounted to a 350 sb, so some adaption will be required to go from the cummins to the gm unit.

My biggest issue is that I am 3 hrs from the closest autoparts store so I cant just run out and grab a part or run to the nearest machine shop to have something made....sure makes it interesting though!

[71CumminsBurb]

Sorry about the messy response....

Anyway, my fab skills are lacking...severely compared to yours and as much as I know I could build stuff on my own, I fear that it will look like a redneck trainwreck or a buzzbox bomb aftermath.

So simple tips are greatly appreciated....

[mosesburb]

How did you clear the frame with the vertical vac pump?? Motor not centered or mounted much higher that I did mine?? It will work. Obviously Dodge did it for the masses, but I don't like it. As far as adapting hydroboost, the only thing that needs to be dealt with is the second return line. Add another nipple to the reservoir or put a "T" in the existing return line. The pump on your Cummins (provided it is out of a Dodge) is a Saginaw (GM) pump, so it will work as designed with hydroboost.

Keep looking on the fuel system. I posted about the pump, the tank, even the lines I bent up for it.

I will have to do some looking for the pics on the clutch. I did a whole writeup on it and something happened and the post didn't take and got lost in the bowels of the internet and I never went through and re-did it.

The van rear axle was purchased for two reasons. One was it was van width, second was it had 3.73's.

[71CumminsBurb]

Uh..now I m second guessing what I have as far as vacuum pumps go...mine isnt vertical. Its about 8-10" long (hehe) but is horizontal. Ill post a pic tomorrow before work...

The fuel system is fairly simple so I'm sure my plan will work. I plan on running a large fuel filter and separator then a electric fuel pump to a regulator to step it down to a steady and consistent pressure before the lift pump. I chose to do this because I kept reading stories of the lift pumps not supplying enough fuel under load or extreme situations thus causing running issues. Maybe I'm rethinking the wheel here but this is what a lot of the cummins guys are doing.

Ive got the stock 3/4 ton axles under the truck now with 4.10's in them. I bought what was supposed to be a mild wheeler with x-over steering, selectable lockers, NP205 splitter kit, hydroboost, brand new 40 gallon fuel tank, dana 60 front and ff14 rear axles and 4.10 gears. I thought I had won the lottery when I found this rig because it had a lot of hat I wanted/ needed for my burb......

WRONG-the dana 60-ff14 ended up being a dana 60 & dana 70 dually set up with 4.56's and lincoln locked axles. At least the axles had been upgraded to disks and converted to single wheel (via hummer wheels and a different hub assembly up front), but still a large expense to re-gear and replace carriers depending on how it was welded.

My biggest mistake was having my father in law check it out for me...i told him my plans but there was a huge disconnect because what showed up at my house was a complete rock rig/ basketcase.

Anyway, I figured I would try the 4.10's in the stock axles and re-gear the d60-d70 as I see fit afterwards.

Pics on the slave mounted to the pedal would be AWESOME!!! Im kind of stuck on that right now....

[mosesburb]

Ooof. That sucks. Start a build thread and post pics of what you have so far. Other than the carriers being welded, it doesn't sound too bad.

The vac pump you are describing sounds like a later model unit than I have and yes, those don't interfere with the frame.

Never have a pump, mechanical or electric, pull fuel through a filter--always put the filter after the pump. Why keep the lift pump on the motor if you are running electric with a regulator??

[71CumminsBurb]

Originally Posted by mosesburb

Ooof. That sucks. Start a build thread and post pics of what you have so far. Other than the carriers being welded, it doesn't sound too bad.

LOL..Ill post pics for you to see. I think the axles are leaking from every seal, the kingpins are toast...the deathwobble at 30mph is VERY scary!

The vac pump you are describing sounds like a later model unit than I have and yes, those don't interfere with the frame.

The donor rig was a 92-93

Never have a pump, mechanical or electric, pull fuel through a filter--always put the filter after the pump. Why keep the lift pump on the motor if you are running electric with a regulator??

Redundancy. I figure if one fails then I can still limp home on the other...

I'll try and put together a decent build thread shortly. Right now I just want to get it running before old man winter shows up again.

[71CumminsBurb]

Last question for the night and if it's in here somewhere and I missed it or forgot about it you can smack me....but are you running a tach and what are you using to create a readable signal?

[mosesburb]

ISSPRO tach. It uses small magnets epoxied to the balancer and a pick-up mounted to the oil pan rail to create a signal.

[mosesburb]

So when we left here we were camped on the base of Baker Butte in Valley of the Gods, UT. I didn't get a good pic of the camp but I did get one that was mildy presentable after dark on a timed exposure. It is not as clear as I would have liked, but it is all that I have:



The view when we woke up was fantastic. Ironically, we had cell service and I was able to send a pic of the view to a few people around the country so they too could see what we woke up to:



Eventually, we found it necessary to pack up and leave. Larry was first out.



Some generic beautiful scenery on the way out:



Once we got back on the road we were greeted with this sign--and they mean it:



I'm no stranger to narrow dirt shelf roads, but this one was a little creepy for some reason--no idea why. A view of the road from near the top:



A view from the top:



There are two old square bodies in this picture:



Generic scenery on the way to Hall's Crossing. There are six finger mesas in this pic:



This area was really cool. It looked like it should have been a dump for industrial waste back in prehistoric times.



We made it to Hall's Crossing on Lake Powell. Larry needed gas because he runs a stinky gas engine in his truck that is not very fuel efficient. I really didn't, but decided to top off because I have no idea where we are going and how far it is to get there. I followed Larry to the shack. Our destination is the building directly behind the shack in this pic--maybe forty yards in??



Larry's MIL had a pass of some sort and they rolled in for no charge. My truck had no passengers with a pass so the old battle-axe that was working the booth demanded fifteen dollars to enter the Glen Canyon Recreation Area. I tried to explain to her that I was just going to the gas hut right there and I will be gone in ten minutes and that she would never see me again. In some old battle-axe scratchy voice she rather impolitlely told me that even going that far is using the Glen Canyon Recreation Area and I have to pay fifteen dollars to enter. I paid. When all was said and done I paid just over six dollars a gallon for the fuel I bought. My boy actually does a pretty good impression of the battle-axe demanding her fifteen dollars.

[hgs_notes]

Originally Posted by mosesburb

Never have a pump, mechanical or electric, pull fuel through a filter--always put the filter after the pump. Why keep the lift pump on the motor if you are running electric with a regulator??

Filters on the inlet to a pump are used to protect the pump and are common on many fuel injection systems where the pump is not in the tank. The tolerances on the pumps are close and they are too easily messed up. The inlet side filter is usually not as fine as the outlet side so it doesn't hurt the suction head for the pump as much.

[hgs_notes]

Originally Posted by mosesburb

My favorite. Actually looks like a nice road, condition wise, steep though.

I had to work up in Alaska one summer long ago. Doing boiler inspections up there means traveling a lot of miles in a rental car (among other means) out into the bush. I had a ford thunderbird rental car that I took up to Eagle, AK, north of Chicken, AK. It is just a few miles from the Yukon border. There were a lot of washouts and no other traffic. That made the sphincter tighten up I can tell you. I wonder if I got pics of that trip somewhere. I probably saw more of Alaska in 3 weeks than most Alaskan natives see in their lives.

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by hgs_notes

Filters on the inlet to a pump are used to protect the pump and are common on many fuel injection systems where the pump is not in the tank. The tolerances on the pumps are close and they are too easily messed up. The inlet side filter is usually not as fine as the outlet side so it doesn't hurt the suction head for the pump as much.

The problem is 99% of people do not know the difference and 99.9% of todays "parts guys" have no clue how to find one. For that reason alone, I stand by my statement.

Originally Posted by hgs_notes

My favorite. Actually looks like a nice road, condition wise, steep though.

Yeah, there was nothing wrong with the road. Still have no idea why it bugged me. We were on roads much worse and much narrower than this on this trip and those didn't phase me at all. Who knows.

Originally Posted by hgs_notes

I had to work up in Alaska one summer long ago. Doing boiler inspections up there means traveling a lot of miles in a rental car (among other means) out into the bush. I had a ford thunderbird rental car that I took up to Eagle, AK, north of Chicken, AK. It is just a few miles from the Yukon border. There were a lot of washouts and no other traffic. That made the sphincter tighten up I can tell you. I wonder if I got pics of that trip somewhere. I probably saw more of Alaska in 3 weeks than most Alaskan natives see in their lives.

Reason number one to never purchase a car that was once a rental car. Sounds like a very scenic trip if nothing else.

[jbclassix]

Originally Posted by mosesburb

Looks like fun. What's up with your Sub these days??

Can't afford to go get it... stuck in storage

[71CumminsBurb]

Originally Posted by hgs_notes

Filters on the inlet to a pump are used to protect the pump and are common on many fuel injection systems where the pump is not in the tank. The tolerances on the pumps are close and they are too easily messed up. The inlet side filter is usually not as fine as the outlet side so it doesn't hurt the suction head for the pump as much.

Im with you there...I'm coming a from a strong history with a certain 99.5 powerstroke. I learned many things, some the hard (see: EXPENSIVE) way and destroying the SuperDookie fuel pumps with the good ole clean MT diesel was one of them. I couldn't get a fuel pump (the "proper" pump was a Bosch unit-@ $300 a pop) to last more than 6 months. I finally broke down and rebuilt my entire set up with a filter and seperator pre-pump (one which was designed for that specific use) and nary had a problem again.

Well, until the first winter after that mod....thats when I discovered that a large canister full of diesel wouldn't stay in it's liquid state when exposed to -20 to -40 degreee temps...

[ThreeQtr]

If you had jerry cans, could Larry have filled them for you?

Maybe next time.

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by ThreeQtr

If you had jerry cans, could Larry have filled them for you?

Maybe next time.

Yeah, he probably *could* have, but the issue with that would have been his rack was already full of two jerry cans, so he would have had to haul them inside. Ok for a short distance I guess, but I would hate to be responsible for a leaking can and a cabin that smells like diesel fuel.

I learned a lot of things on this trip. What works, what doesn't, what is good, what is bad, what I should bring, what I brought and didn't use (utilitarian things--not safety/survival items), what I need more of and so on. Changes to the equipment are occurring as we speak (or type??). Really in the whole scheme of things 6.00 a gallon isn't SO bad--probably not even worth a plan B to get around. It was more frustrating than anything I guess having to buy a five day or two week pass to buy a few gallons of fuel that in the end I really didn't need, but I always prefer to head into the wilderness with a full tank just in case..

[hgs_notes]

The easiest solution is to have Larry go in with the pass, then the passenger walks back out and rides in with you, with the pass.

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by hgs_notes

The easiest solution is to have Larry go in with the pass, then the passenger walks back out and rides in with you, with the pass.

Uh, yeah. Under normal circumstances maybe, but the battle-axe in the shack would have NEVER permitted THAT. That would have been cheating the Glen Canyon Recreation Area out of fifteen dollars. I wish I could liken her voice to something you would recognize. It was awful. That, coupled with the fact she was a royal bish, just made the whole experience grand. The wimmens that work in the gas shack say that she harasses them about entering if they forget their ID or pass or whatever they have. Makes THEM pay. She has the compassion of an IRS tax collector and the personality of a seasoned DMV agent.

[DirtyLarry]

Ya, she was a beeoitch!

[hgs_notes]

I hear ya. Something like this?

I'm watching you, Wazowski. Always watching....

[mosesburb]

So we got back to Hole in the Rock Road. After airing down we hit the trail. The road starts out as barely a low spot in the sand. Larry is making the only tracks this road has seen in quite awhile.



After we got in a ways the road became a bit more discernable:



Down the trail a bit we came upon this old soldier: (it was a running driving truck when we got there, but Larry took it for a spin and well, the picture tells the story)



I think this may have been the only life form we saw on this trail other than us humans:



At this point Larry remembers going down a side road to see something (he was not the trail leader/navigator on that run). We take a right and head off towards some point unknown. Not too far in we come across another relic:



Well, we get down the road a bit further and Larry starts questioning our location and whether we are on the right trail or not. Obviously I can be of no help. Now, if you are ever wondering if you are lost and you see this out of your window, the answer is probably and you should probably turn around now:



So we turn around and head back to the remnants of the half-track. We get back there and continue down Hole in the Rock Road. We get quite a ways in and we come to a giant slickrock monolith.



The trail zigs then zags up the face and then over to an obstacle that we decided would prevent our forward progress. Could we have made it through and continued on?? Probably. The problem with doing things like that where we were is if something bad happens it can turn into alife and/or death situation almost immediately. I would guess we were 4.5-5 hours from the nearest town (not city) and probably six or seven hours from a hospital--just a hospital, not a tauma center. Being in places like this, with our tracks being the only ones in sight, keeps the adventurous side of me a little quiet. Had we been around home and with a few others and closer to civilization, I might have been a little more willing to attempt it, but not where we were. We decided to make this area our camp for the night.

Larry was leading so he went up first. He zigged and then zagged to get up the face. It seemed a bit difficult making the turns on the face. I decided to give'r straight up the face. That was the ticket right there.