Markeb01 Build Thread

[markeb01]

They didn't have that model in my store, so I ended up buying the 2,000 lb model which was also on sale. It sure has been handy so far, and now I have a way to remove and install the bed cover by myself, and it will also be used as the third person to hold the hood up when it comes off for the engine swap.

[1963c-10]

Are you satisfied with the height that you get on the boom? I am debateing between the two models. If the 1,000 lb foldable model will work on our trucks safely, i'll probably go with it, if it doesn't have the clearance, your model may be the better option.

[64shortbox]

1963c-10,
I bought the Harbor Freight folding engine hoist over 10 years ago and it's done everything I needed it to do. In fact I pulled the motor & turbo 350 trans as a unit out of my 64 C10 and it did just fine. I did have the hood removed and the boom was extended out as far as it would go, I removed the carb off the motor and choked down the chain as far as I could. The oil pan just barely cleared the top of the radiator support but it cleared. I did have to pick up on the tailshaft of the trans to clear the support while a friend pulled on the hoist but it did the job. I just don't have room to store a full size engine hoist when not in use. Hope this info helps.

[1963c-10]

thanks 64shortbox, thats the info i was looking for. i think ill replace the chain per marks advise also
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[64shortbox]

Mark,
On the Harbor Freight engine tilter - IF things haven't changed sine I bought mine 10 years ago you might want to see about adding small bearings at the ends of the frame. The HF one I bought just had a large washer at each end with a nut to hold it together. When I had the weight of the motor & trans on it - it was a bear to turn the crank to tilt the motor/trans combo. I took it to my work and added a couple of small sealed bearings making it a LOT easier to use. At the very least I would use some wheel bearing grease on the end frame & washers. Unfortunately I lent mine to a friend many years ago before I moved & I never got it back.

[markeb01]

Originally Posted by 1963c-10

Are you satisfied with the height that you get on the boom? I am debateing between the two models. If the 1,000 lb foldable model will work on our trucks safely, i'll probably go with it, if it doesn't have the clearance, your model may be the better option.

Sorry for the delayed response, last week was a mad house. With the arm extended to the last hole (longest length) which is marked ½ ton, the dimension from the floor to the lower ledge of the hook where the chain engages is 88 ½”, and that’s as configured. I could shorten the chain a few lengths if I needed even more height. I don’t think clearance will be an issue with this model. Also your vents will probably go out this Wednesday. The sewer guys still have the basement and front yard in a shambles, but they will likely be done by tomorrow or Tuesday and life can get back to normal.

Originally Posted by 64shortbox

Mark,
On the Harbor Freight engine tilter - IF things haven't changed sine I bought mine 10 years ago you might want to see about adding small bearings at the ends of the frame. The HF one I bought just had a large washer at each end with a nut to hold it together. When I had the weight of the motor & trans on it - it was a bear to turn the crank to tilt the motor/trans combo. I took it to my work and added a couple of small sealed bearings making it a LOT easier to use. At the very least I would use some wheel bearing grease on the end frame & washers. Unfortunately I lent mine to a friend many years ago before I moved & I never got it back.

Thanks for the input. I’ll take a look and see how it’s put together. I had one of the cheaper models when I first put the engine in back in 1992. It was so hard to operate and flimsy I wasn’t sure it wasn’t going to break. This one is much beefier, but I’m sure bearings would make a big difference.

It’s been a madhouse the last few days with the shed guy being here and then Thursday the sewer hook up crew showed up and started tearing things up. The sewer hookup is done, but we’re also having the plumbing done for a bathroom addition so the basement floor is torn up, there’s dirt and dust everywhere, and the racket is unbelievable, especially for my wife who needs to sleep during the day!

Once again here’s what my wife’s garden shed looked like when we started:



It used to have a tent covering that was ripped to pieces by severe winds, which are frequent in our location.

At the end of day one we had this:



Another 24 hours produced this:



And it took 3 more days to turn it into this:



Now the wife is delighted and all the yard stuff and equipment is neatly hung up and organized in the shed (and out of the garage). She was kind enough to clean up the now empty side of the garage with the shop vac so I’m almost ready to start on the engine.

On the truck I completed the vacuum tank installation and picked up some grade 8 bolts to mount the engine on the stand. The tank provides a port for a vacuum gauge, so I connected it to the gauge in the instrument panel. With the current setup it holds an indicated 19 inches. I’m curious to see what level the new engine will generate with the bigger cam"



I'll take some better photos in a few days.

[Ta2Don]

The shed looks good, and I understand about keeping our women happy! As long as I keep the honey-do list short and being attended to, life is good!!! Anxiously awaiting the engine install...
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[piratexpress1369a]

shed turned out great

[markeb01]

Well today I finally made some minor progress on the engine project, mounting the new engine on the stand. The good news – the stand is sturdy and easy to move around even carrying the weight of the engine. The bad news – for a one man operation it’s fundamentally incompatible with the crane I bought. The problem being, both pieces of equipment have their legs splayed out at about 15-20 degree angles.

Using a commercial cherry picker with the legs sticking straight forward, the engine stand would slide right in place. Using a contemporary 3 wheel stand, or a normal 4 wheel stand with the T shaped frame, again the engine stand would slide right in front of the lift. But with tapered legs on both the engine stand and the cherry picker they collide with each other making it very difficult to get the engine attached to the stand.

Earlier I mounted the arms to the bellhousing bolt holes, and attached the pivot plate to the arms. With everything aligned and centered all the bolts were torqued up. We tried several times with the boom set in the 2nd to the longest hole (2,000 lbs capacity) but couldn’t get the mounting post within a foot of the stand. So the engine was rested on the wood pallet again and the arm extended to the full length (1,000 lbs) marking. Aligning one engine stand leg against a reverse angle crane leg, my wife muscled the engine stand frame while I shoved the engine over about a foot to get the two pieces connected. Once assembled, the engine stand wanted to climb up over the leg of the crane, so she levered a crowbar between the two while I pushed on the engine and simultaneously lowered the load! Two people were definitely needed.

But as mentioned, once mounted the thing is a dream to move around and the working height is ideal.





Here’s a shot showing the problematic angled legs:



With the sewer project wrapped up today I’m hoping to get started on the valve train upgrade tomorrow. Thankfully the Crane long slot rocker arms showed up today on schedule. I guess before that I’ll need to de-sticker the engine first! I also need to paint the harmonic balancer as it was delivered in bare steel. I went with a Summit balancer, and one nice feature is the degreed engraving. I’ve never had that before.

Another bit of good news, not all the stuff made in China is junk. Twice I ordered an Edelbrock oil fill tube, proudly “Made in America” and both times I received a malformed piece that looked like this:



The formed end was missing and there wasn’t even enough to get a good grip in the manifold opening.

This time I ordered a cheap Spectre brand from Ebay, and it arrived in beautiful condition:



Both the tube and cap look like show plating. The cap is also the highest quality I have found. It is deeper than the domestic versions, fits down farther over the fill tube, and is nicely finished where the cap is formed to the inner piece. The domestic offerings have very sharp edges underneath and are no where near as high quality.

With all the stuff going on this last week there hasn’t been any sleep in several days. I’m looking forward to getting some rest and getting started on the engine project.

More to follow.

[Ta2Don]

Hey Mark, get some sleep, looks like yu are gearing up for some serious wrenching...

[markeb01]

Thanks Don, I did finally crash for about 14 hours and that helped recharge the batteries! I started working on the new engine today. First step was removing the valve covers. I was somewhat surprised to find cork valve cover gaskets glued to the heads (or maybe they were just stuck in the paint). The valve covers on my previous two GM crate motors were glued in place with RTV or silicone which peeled right off. An hour and a half of scraping eliminated the cork residue.

Next I pulled the rockers, pushrods and lifters. Obviously I forgot to take any photos when the engine was right side up. I’m not sure what I’ll do with the left over parts as I’ll likely never have a use for them, but I also hate pitching out brand new stuff.



The pan and front cover came off next and I was delighted to find the pan gasket in mint condition, so it will be reused. I was also surprised to see how big the pick up tube is on the oil pump. I don’t remember any being that large in diameter before.





I’ve never seen an engine with so many internal paint markings. It seems almost ever part of the motor has either colored dots or numbers painted on. The external paint job is also the worst I’ve seen. It’s blotchy with thin spots and covered in runs. I was content to leave it black, but it’s going to at least need some touch up.

Another interesting feature is the single roller timing set that came with the engine:



I’ve never seen one before. All of my experience has been either with “silent” chains or double rollers. In any event, I thought it was pretty cheesy what Comp Cams provided in the “Cam Kit”. The timing set on the box cover is a double roller, but what’s in the box is a crappy silent chain minus the nylon gear.



Neither chain matters to me as I’m sticking with the Pete Jackson noisy gear drive in my old engine. Between the truck and my previous car I’ve been driving behind a Pete Jackson noisy drive for almost 30 years. My wife and I both enjoy the racket which blends in with all the other noise the truck generates. The bummer being I have to wait until the old engine is out before I can finish this one.

The last step for today was pulling the OEM cam and installing the new stick. I slopped cam lube all over the lobes and coated the bearing journals with motor oil. It came out and went in with no issues at all. Instead of an expensive handle to manage the cam removal and installation, I just used a couple of long bolts screwed into the front. I would have taken comparison pictures of the two camshafts but I didn’t have anywhere clean enough to set them both down together.

One tip I picked up from the internet was lubing the first two bearing journals (the first two going into the block), and the first set of lobes in between, and inserting only that portion in the block. This made it very easy to lubricate the rest without getting it all over the place.

I couldn’t find my crank socket (since I haven’t used it in over 20 years) so I have to wait until the weekend for the new one to show up. Then I can align the cam with the crank, change the springs, and install the lifters, pushrods, and rockers. I could put the balancer on to turn the engine over, but don’t really want to go to the grief of putting it on and taking it back off. I’d rather wait and use the socket just because I’m lazy.

Hopefully I’ll have some more progress to report this weekend.

[piratexpress1369a]

did you think about chain less timing gear?

[markeb01]

Not sure what setup you’re referring to. I’m running a gear drive which is chainless. There are also belt drives but I don’t see merit in having one in an engine like mine. Truth is I wish my Honda CRV came with a double roller chain option so I didn’t have to replace the belt (at great expense) every 100,000 miles.

Back in the early 60’s there was also the Schaller ¼ speed double lobe cam. I believe that one was direct gear to gear and ran backwards, but it’s been decades since I read about it so the details are fuzzy and I doubt they remain available.

A couple of appointments limited forward progress today. But after re-reading all the paperwork that came with the cam, I realized I hadn’t double checked the part number etched into the rear face of the cam. So I pulled it back out, checked the I.D. (which was correct), stripped it clean, relubed it and slid it back in place. After that I rounded up my crank gear puller and removed the crank gear. Then I found my balancer installation tool in the old Pete Jackson gear drive box. It can be tough locating stuff that was last used over 20 years ago, a thousand miles away, and with 2 out of state moves in between!

Final task for the day was painting the nodular iron harmonic balancer. It arrived in oiled bare metal, guaranteed to rust. After prep I sprayed it in black lacquer to keep the finish thin. This evening I’m going to attempt painting in the degree engraving with white paint for easier visibility.

And in the good news department the crank socket will arrive tomorrow! That will allow me to replace the valve springs, retainers, and keepers. After that the new engine will be bagged up awaiting the gear drive from the old engine. Tentative schedule for pulling the old engine is this coming Tuesday.

[rusty76]

I just wanted to say I just spent alittle time reading your build here and wow. Really kool. I've still got tons to read it looks like but man I like what I see already. Godspeed.

[markeb01]

Thanks Rusty!

[Ta2Don]

I know the feeling about the items not used for 20 years... I haven't welded in 25 years, so now that I have a new welder, I'm trying to find the touch I had 25 years ago...LOL
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[markeb01]

It’s no work of art, but at least I will be able to locate the numbers under a timing light better than on any balancer I’ve owned previously. The good news being stripers can sleep better knowing my talent with a small brush won’t be taking any business away from them. In defense of my meager achievement the markings appear to be stamped not engraved, so the line depth is consistently uneven. Some are so shallow wiping the finish removes all of the paint in the groove. I’ll do a little more touch up once everything dries.



The brown truck hasn’t showed up yet, so forward motion is on standby.

[markeb01]

It was a late night in the garage tonight (for me). Knocked off about 11 after successfully installing all the new Comp Cams springs, retainers, and keepers. I’m amazed how much I continue to learn even at my age. I’ve never seen “exhaust valve rotators” before, although I understand they are fairly common on big block engines (or maybe their standard, I'm not very familiar with big blocks). This new engine had them.

Reading up on them seems to indicate they are primarily for slow moving or stationary engines and aren’t really suitable for high revving performance applications. Apparently on the big blocks the springs are two different lengths to make up for the added thickness of the rotator. Eliminating them requires a special spacer.

Here’s a close up of the two types – standard on the left and rotator on the right. It’s a two piece affair (although it doesn’t come apart) that seems to have ball bearings inside.



On this engine, the springs are all the same size, so the exhaust springs just get squashed down farther. In any event they were eliminated and replaced with the Comp Cams retainers and keepers.

And here’s another surprise I hadn’t expected, Perfect Circle style valve seals:



I’ve never seen these before on a base line GM replacement engine. I suppose they could be in my old motor since I’ve never removed the valve springs to look, but I was thankful to find them installed.

Here I’ve swapped out two of the springs, and the exhaust valve rotators and regular retainers are apparent:



I got started after the crank socket showed up. It’s made of aluminum to protect the crank. Here it is in position:



And here’s a close up of the socket:



I temporarily reinstalled the crank gear, cam gear, and chain. I set the engine on top dead center and swapped out the springs on number 1 cylinder. Then I started wondering how I was going to know when the other pistons were on TDC with no valve train or distributor. It was time for a break.

I was contemplating installing the lifters so I could see which ones were on the base circle of the cam, when a simpler approach occurred to me. I just looked in the spark plug holes. I rotated the crank 90 degrees, then looked in the plug holes with a high powered LED flashlight. Here’s a cylinder with the piston down in the bore:



And here’s one at the top. It was pretty obvious which one to work on:



So the air adapter was screwed into the spark plug hole and the air hose connected. Here’s a close up of the new air tool. I had one of these years ago, and it came with an O-ring where indicated. I was disappointed it had neither an O-ring nor a tapered seat, so it leaked like a sieve, but maintained enough pressure to hold the valves up.



Here the passenger side head is done:



And I did repaint the balancer. It came out much nicer with some touch up. It’s still not pretty but at least all the lines are clearly visible:



Man this is really starting to be fun!

[CRGRS 66]

Awesome!

[DURG]

Looking good. Put all the stuff you take off the motor and put it on Ebay as a package. Someone will buy it. I have even had good luck selling used engine components on there. I knew the stuff was good, but I was surprised so many other people were willing to bid and pay that much for it. I sold used cam and lifter set, pushrods, roller rockers etc. Turn that money right back around into more parts!

[Ta2Don]

Originally Posted by CRGRS 66

Awesome!

[66-PMD-GMC]

Mark, I just want to add something.. not criticism
The rotator cups, installed, were set at a certain seat pressure.
Taking off the thicker retainer and installing thinner retainers will affect your seat pressure. Low seat pressure will allow valve float.....
Even when two valve springs are sitting side by side, looking like identical twins, The tension of each spring can be very different.
Just a word of caution my friend.

[markeb01]

Thanks for the comments guys!

Originally Posted by DURG

Looking good. Put all the stuff you take off the motor and put it on Ebay as a package. Someone will buy it. I have even had good luck selling used engine components on there. I knew the stuff was good, but I was surprised so many other people were willing to bid and pay that much for it. I sold used cam and lifter set, pushrods, roller rockers etc. Turn that money right back around into more parts!

Sounds like a great plan. That would probably generate a lot more profit that 10 cents a pound at the recycler!

Originally Posted by 66-PMD-GMC

Mark, I just want to add something.. not criticism
The rotator cups, installed, were set at a certain seat pressure.
Taking off the thicker retainer and installing thinner retainers will affect your seat pressure. Low seat pressure will allow valve float.....
Even when two valve springs are sitting side by side, looking like identical twins, The tension of each spring can be very different.
Just a word of caution my friend.

Thanks for the input. I always appreciate your comments even when they are blunt. You know a lot more about this stuff than I do.

I think I’ll be okay though, because I replaced all the factory valve springs/retainers/keepers with the recommended compatible parts from Comp Cams. Multiple places in their literature they reinforce the number one cause of new cam failure is incorrect valve springs (which kind of surprised me). It seems a lot of people just buy the cam and slap it in a stock engine with unhappy results. In reading a bunch of other forums about new cams and valve springs, every single person said to buy the compatible springs from the cam manufacturer.

This morning the first task was to read up again on the best way to set the valve lash. There were also a bunch of videos on YouTube, one of which was particularly helpful. The first guy suggested doing it the way I always did back in the old days. Set the engine on #1 top dead center and set half of the valves. Turn the engine over to #6 and do the other half. It worked fine. But then I started thinking that this isn’t a stock cam, and the LCA isn’t the same and that might make a difference.

The most helpful video set the engine on #1 TDC then adjust both valves on each cylinder in firing order sequence watching for the intake lifter to descend to the base circle of the cam. It was super easy. I just chased the intake valves in sequence and as a result the engine only turned over once, so I wasn’t wiping all the lube off the cam/lifter surfaces.

One change I decided during the valve adjustment was replacing the Crane long slot rocker arms and going back to the GM originals. The Crane parts just didn’t feel right. Even at zero lash I could wobble them around almost off of the valve stem. The ball sockets for the push rods also looked undersize to me. Another feature I had never seen before in one of these replacement engines was rocker arms with somewhat self-aligning ridges built in. They don’t show up very well in this photo, but there are dimples outboard of the valve stem area on the GM rocker arm shown on the left. The smooth Crane item is on the right. Those ledges really do seem to add a lot of stability to the rocker arm/valve stem interface.



In this photo everything is adjusted and ready to go. It sure is easy with the intake manifold out of the way. Rather than wondering if I really was at zero lash, I just looked at the lifter to see if there was any plunger movement beneath the clip inside the lifter body.



And this shot shows the steel plug blocking the driver side dipstick which I won’t be using. It’s the silver dot between cylinders 5 & 7.



Covered up and ready to go back in the bag:



And just for giggles I popped on a pair or reproduction Corvette covers I won’t be using. I do think they look pretty cool though.



About the only left I can do is install the dipstick tube. It becomes somewhat vulnerable, but I’d rather put it in on the stand rather than have to deal with it after the engine is in the truck.

Once the gear drive is retrieved and installed, I can close up the front cover and pan, install the balancer, accessories and it’s ready to go. I may pull the hood tomorrow and get started on removing the shifter, etc as I will be pulling the transmission out with the engine.

[66-PMD-GMC]

Sorry Mark, I did not catch that you swapped out the valve springs too.
For me, I have a spring tool that I can set up to the installed height of each valve, and then shim to the desired spring pressure.
Also known as blueprinting, setting valve spring pressure to the height that you are going to run on each and every valve individually will dial that valve train right in...
It is one of many blueprinting procedures that a guy can do at home to really dial in a motor.
Since I build multiple motors a year, I have some of the tools that most guys would use once or twice in a lifetime...
I have found that many engine machinists are happy to help a guy out that wants to learn and do it himself.

[1Bad62Pro/Street]

Teehee....
Hey Mark,

What's that writing say on your balancer?