57 Chevy Wagon - Californa Dreamin'

[Low Elco]

I'm glad you got it going, and it's finally coming around. Too pretty to not run right!

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by Low Elco

I'm glad you got it going, and it's finally coming around. Too pretty to not run right!

Thanks, Chip. I'm still sorting issues, but I promise you, I will prevail.

I went on a road trip to Sedalia yesterday and put a little over 200 miles on the old wagon. Did pretty good on the way there, but when I got into town, the temp went up to around 230 before I arrived at my buddy's shop. Had to sit out several lights and go slow along the city streets. Temp was fine on the highway (185) so part of the problem has to be the amount of air the fans are pulling.

Before the return trip, I added some 50/50 coolant to the overflow tank just in case the radiator was slightly low. After the car had cooled down somewhat (outside temp was 100 with a heat index of 113, so there wasn't a lot of help from Mother Nature) we went to several shops to show the car to some friends and then I hit the road. Car was reading 220 by the time I made it to the highway but cooled right down to 185 running 70 mph.

So while we were running around town, the fuse to the power windows blew but it didn't really matter since I was running the a/c. When I left home, the a/c was blowing so cold, I had to turn it down. However on the way back, it kept getting warmer and the air coming out of the vents was just cool and not cold. Normally, I would have turned off the a/c and ran the windows down, but ...well, blown fuse. So I'm chugging along, the engine temp is okay but I start to notice a miss. More noticeable going downhill than up. Then, once I hit some traffic lights and had to slow down, the temp shot back up. By the time I pulled into a parking lot and shut it off it was reading 240. During the process of running the fans then briefly starting the car to cycle the cooler water thru the block, I noticed I had no fuel pressure to speak of < 1psi. I could see there was no fuel showing in the sight glasses on the carbs. After about 20 minutes of running the fans, starting the engine briefly then running the fans some more, I was finally able to get the temp down to 200. I was only a few miles from home, so I limped on in and parked it in the basement. I'm thinking the lean condition caused by the low fuel pressure also may have contributed to the overheating.

After it cooled off, my B-I-L, Rick (who just arrived in town from Seattle) and I did some forensics. First we pinched the return line closed to see if the problem was the regulator or the pump. Still had no pressure so we moved to the back of the car and when he listened to pump, he could hear a sloshing sound which he suspected was the return. But I mentioned the return line went all the way to the bottom of the tank and shouldn't be making any noise. So we pulled the pump and found the problem right away ...a split hose. For those of you that followed my previous truck build, you know I had the same exact problem with it. I can't believe it happened to me again. Although in retrospect, I should have known to not use the hose that came with the pump. Did that last time and it wasn't up to the task so I upgraded to better line and never had the problem again. Obviously didn't learn a thing from my previous experience.

One of the spark plug wires had come off the plug entirely with just the end of it resting on the contact end of the plug so that was the cause of the miss. I really need to junk the SS headers and go back to cast iron manifolds that have the proper clearance for the plug wires.

The a/c problem was an easy fix. The o-ring in the low pressure fitting on the compressor had failed. It was probably the wrong size and as the fitting was tightened, it sheared the outer edge and caused it to fail. We put in an o-ring with a smaller cross section that fit into the cavity better and that should take care of it. Of course, now the system will have to be pumped down and refilled with refrigerant.

Next up is a thorough examination of the puller fans. The Dakota Digital fan controller has a diagnostic mode that allows you to test your on/off settings for low and high temp operation. I plan to (once again) rewire the fan relays. Right now, when the ignition is turned off, they lose all power. If I run them off battery instead of ignition, I can program the controller to run the fans for a specified period before shutting down. That may help give the radiator a head start when you stop for any reason. I may also have to resort to carrying a small sprayer filled with water to help cool it down like I had to do with my race cars. The proper fix would be to increase the fan capacity, but in order to do that, I'd have to pull the radiator and redesign the shroud, etc. That would fall under the heading of a winter project.

[mongocanfly]

Dang the bad luck.....my Dad had a s10 that did the same thing with that hose

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

Dang the bad luck.....my Dad had a s10 that did the same thing with that hose

You know, it really surprises me that the manufacturer would include a hose that's unfit for the fuel type and or pressure. But then again, it was a fairly soft hose with no apparent reinforcement like the better quality EFI hose I was using on the other pump. So, my bad for using it I guess. Just glad I was able to make it home without needing a tow truck.

I'm mopping up the refrigerant oil that leaked out of the compressor when the o-ring on the low pressure fitting failed. While I'm at it, I'll do some recon to see how difficult it will be to swap out the headers for cast iron manifolds. I'm running out of time before we leave for the Tri-Five Nationals. Headed out a week from this Tuesday, so lots to do and I'd like to get in at least one more shakedown run.

[Vic1947]

Tri-five owners on their forum swear that the hood brace from the factory serves as a baffle to help direct air thru the radiator on the highway as well as keeping the hot underhood air from recirculating over the core support and thru the front of the radiator when stopped.

The trick, CNC'd brace in mine totally defeats that purpose, so I'm going to add some block off plates made of aluminum sheet to the backside of the brace. The only problem I have is that the ends of the brace have a gap where they meet the core support. Not sure whether it's worth it to try to close those up. It's never going to seal 100% anyway.

[Ol Blue K20]

Who would of thought. I wonder if they're correct.

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by Ol Blue K20

Who would of thought. I wonder if they're correct.

I'd say they're onto something. Yesterday afternoon, my B-I-L Rick was here so we blocked off the brace with duct tape and then went for a drive. When we got back to the house, we sat in the driveway with the car idling in gear for quite awhile. The temperature was rock steady on 200 with both fans running. That was with gaps galore around the edges of the brace, so I'm thinking it will be even better when I close them up as well. On my way to Metal by the Foot to get a piece of .080 aluminum sheet. Already have my templates made. Will post more pics when done.

[Ol Blue K20]

Interesting, I hope it works.

[jlsanborn]

Knucks has diagnosed a few rigs with that same hose failure. Nice catch! I just installed two pump units in my K10 driver. Guess what I didn't even inspect??

The baffling theory with the hood is interesting! Makes sense and you wouldn't think a designer would get away with a formed part without a purpose.

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by Ol Blue K20

Interesting, I hope it works.

Me too, Dale. Lotsa work for nothing if it doesn't

Originally Posted by jlsanborn

Knucks has diagnosed a few rigs with that same hose failure. Nice catch! I just installed two pump units in my K10 driver. Guess what I didn't even inspect??

The baffling theory with the hood is interesting! Makes sense and you wouldn't think a designer would get away with a formed part without a purpose.

It's the pits when I realize I'm the poster child for "too smart, too late" John. The Chebbie guys on the tri-five forum said the same thing about the baffle - the factory wouldn't put it there if it didn't serve a purpose.

Baffle is done and installed. Ended up with a small gap between the hood and the brace, but not too bad. Sure it will work better than being all open. I feel a road test coming on. Dropping it off tomorrow to have the Stainless Works mufflers added to the exhaust system - weather permitting.

[Low Elco]

Great news- Progress!

[jlsanborn]

Slightly "cooler" than the original design. You'll be in history books, Vic. Well done!

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by Low Elco

Great news- Progress!

Even more progress today, Chip. HRE is installing the additional muffs today and got the AC tuned up. So we should be ready for the big road trip.

Originally Posted by jlsanborn

Slightly "cooler" than the original design. You'll be in history books, Vic. Well done!

Thanks, John!

[Vic1947]

The 57 rolled out of the workshop and into the rain this morning. We were loaded up last night and ready for the road trip to Bowling Green for the Tri-Five Nationals. The inclement weather blindsided us, though. We drove in very heavy weather off and on all the way from KC to right before the Indiana border. Finally outran the storms, arrived at our waypoint and got checked into the motel. We'd no sooner walked across the street to a restaurant than the skies opened up again. Car is covered with road grime and bug juice - just the way it's supposed to be.

Headed to Mammoth Cave in the morning for a tour and then on to Bowling Green to pick up credentials. TFN runs Thursday - Saturday. Weather forecast calls for slight chance of thunderstorms every day. Hope the grassy area where they park the cars doesn't turn into a mud bog.

Car still overheats in stop and go traffic. Not as bad, but worse than it should given the size of the radiator, etc. Probably going to have to give in and reengineer the cooling fan setup over the winter. Also a bit disappointed with the Vintage Air. Blows cool enough air to keep you from croaking with the windows up, but to say it has "cold air" would be totally misleading. Already working on a whole new punch list. The good news is that all the issues so far are manageable. But i do have my work cut out for me when we return.

[mongocanfly]

Well, some good news anyway...
the VA issue is concerning..I was thinking of using them on a upcoming project
Did you do rear air ?

[Ol Blue K20]

Shake down cruise, sounds like fun!

[nsb29]

If you are not getting the airflow through the radiator to cool the motor you’re probably not getting enough airflow through the condenser to cool your AC

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

Well, some good news anyway...
the VA issue is concerning..I was thinking of using them on a upcoming project
Did you do rear air ?

No rear air, Greg, and it's a very large interior space. I finally stopped at an auto parts store yesterday and bought a can of Sub-Zero refrigerant with a gauge. It showed slightly less than 30psi on the low side, so I bumped it up to 40. They don't recommend more than 50 so I have a little more I could add. It helped quite a bit so I may boost it up a few more psi. I think the o-ring in the low pressure fitting at the compressor is still not the right one. There was a tiny amount of oil there like it has a very slow leak. The refrigerant I bought says it seals leaks in o-rings, gaskets and hoses, so we'll see if it works as advertised.

Originally Posted by Ol Blue K20

Shake down cruise, sounds like fun!

It's been like "whack-a-mole" Dale. The expensive Aeromotive regulator I installed doesn't seem to want to work very well when it gets hot. This evening as we were headed out to a restaurant, the car died as I pulled into the parking lot. I popped the hood and checked the fuel pressure and it was over 10psi when it should have been 6.5psi. I broke out the toolkit and reset it to 6.5 but I have no idea why it would be changing like that. I have one of those fancy schmancy gauges you can manually vent to get an accurate reading under different temperature conditions, so I know the pressure was what I was seeing. Also seem to be still having issues with the torque converter clutch solenoid. Also heat related. I did get to talk to a Painless rep at the show today and he gave me the name and number of a guru that may be able to give me some tips on programming. It would be great if the issue went away with a different calibration, but if the solenoid is acting up when the transmission gets up to operating temperature, a new cal file may not be what it needs. I see more revisions in my future.

Originally Posted by nsb29

If you are not getting the airflow through the radiator to cool the motor you’re probably not getting enough airflow through the condenser to cool your AC

That's very true. I did turn the fans on and put a paper towel up to the front of the condenser and it held it there with no problem. However as the whole system heats up, I'm sure the condenser becomes much less effective. I noticed at the show today, one of the vendors was selling a prepackaged core support / radiator / condenser. The condenser was much smaller than mine and only covered maybe 60% of the finned radiator surface. I need to stop by and pick their brains on just why they make it that way. As I mentioned earlier, adding refrigerant helped a lot. And if more is better, too much oughta be just right.

Here's a few photos from the show today. I haven't heard an official count, but I'd estimate close to 2000 cars if you count all the drag cars and show cars in the vendor areas. We had plenty of room to put up our canopy and boy did we ever need it. Heat index near 110 and only a gentle breeze. We left right after the 50/50 drawing at 4pm and made a mile for the air conditioned motel.

[mongocanfly]

Well that sounds a little better on the ac...I'm looking at another IH with similar interior sq footage to your wagon..when I started talking adding ac, they recommended running a rear unit as well..

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

Well that sounds a little better on the ac...I'm looking at another IH with similar interior sq footage to your wagon..when I started talking adding ac, they recommended running a rear unit as well..

I'm not sure how rear A/C would have worked for my application. But we've been getting by with the dash vents and the fan turned up to around 3/4. I went out to the car early this morning and added refrigerant. Increased the low side pressure from 40psi to 45psi so we'll see if that makes a difference. The good news is there seems to be no discernable leak so maybe the sealant did its job.

[mongocanfly]

Yeah, I'd rather not have to do a rear unit if possible.. I'm not one of those people that has to have it 50deg inside on a 100deg day..so maybe front vents will be plenty

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

Yeah, I'd rather not have to do a rear unit if possible.. I'm not one of those people that has to have it 50deg inside on a 100deg day..so maybe front vents will be plenty

I'm not either, Greg. In fact, I don't even like the vents blowing directly on my hands or face.

We got a half day in today. Arrived around 9:15 and by the time we parked, the car was literally on fire. The plug/wire that connects to the Dakota Digital temp sensor had apparently drooped down onto the last header tube and burst into flames. I knew something was wrong because the temp went from 225 to 305 in about two seconds. When the insulation burned off the wires, they shorted together and maxed out the gauge. As I popped the hood I could see a sooty little fire going at the back of the passenger cylinder head. Huffed and puffed a couple of times and it went out, but poured some bottled water on it just to be sure. Drive home will be without the DD temp gauge, but we'll connect the laptop to view the temperature from the other sensor. Luckily, that wasn't the one that burned or we'd be in a bit more of a fix.

To add to our woes, the torque converter clutch solenoid appears to be pretty much shot. TCM software is commanding the converter to lock, but once it gets above 200 degrees, it doesn't do so. This generates a lot of heat with the converter constantly slipping. On the ride back to the motel this afternoon, the trans temp hit 235 on some of the hills. I could tell the converter wasn't locked because the engine rpm was 2500 at 70 instead of 2000 like it should be. The fluid looks clean and doesn't smell burned. But I'm concerned about driving it 600 miles home. We'll just have to keep an eye on it and pull over to let it cool down if it gets crazy hot.

Shortly after noon, the skies opened up and it rained big time. They announced that the storm was getting worse and everyone needed to take down their canopies. When they said the rain wouldn't end until around 4pm, we loaded up and called it a wrap. Prior to that, during a break in the rain, we went up and took some pictures of the top 25. They did have some nice ones, I'll say that. I'll post some photos when we get home. Right now, I'm pretty wrung out.

[jlsanborn]

What an adventure! The shake-down is almost better than the build up. You're first submittal was a 9.9!!! As-built is going to be bulls-eye!

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by jlsanborn

What an adventure! The shake-down is almost better than the build up. You're first submittal was a 9.9!!! As-built is going to be bulls-eye!

Thanks, John! Sorting out the bugs is always interesting. Just takes a bit of patience plus it gives me something to look forward to.

Here are a few photos from the show. One is a photo shopped shot of our car arriving at the park.

[sduckworth13]

It looks like Kathy and you are having fun despite all the kinks! Your car looks awesome Vic! Have a safe trip!