The Story Of A Cummins Suburban (Lots Of Pics)

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by ryanroo

I was about to send you a message the other day and ask how that heater install was coming, but something shiny drove buy and i lost my train of thought or something.

A squirrel with chrome hubcaps??
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[1985-GMC]

Nice job! That looks like a whole lot of fun... NOT! I will be doing that before the engine ever goes in the truck!
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[Dieselwrencher]

Nice work and good job on replacing the springs and lapping the valves.

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by 1985-GMC

Nice job! That looks like a whole lot of fun... NOT! I will be doing that before the engine ever goes in the truck!
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That's the best way to do it. It really was not as much fun as it appeared.

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

Nice work and good job on replacing the springs and lapping the valves.

Thanks!! Thanks again for your technical assistance. Your answers to the odd questions I had made the job alot easier.

[mosesburb]

So while I had the cooling system down I noticed some junk in the bottom of the bucket.



I did not take the time to identify it, I just used it as an excuse to install the coolant filter that I have been putting off installing since I built the truck. I figured it couldn't hurt any. I used ball valves on the inlet and outlet so I can change the filter without effectively draining the entire cooling system.



I mounted it pre-heater valve, so it is in a bypass configuration when the heater valve is open and it is full-flow when the heater valve is closed.

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by mosesburb

Thanks again for your technical assistance. Your answers to the odd questions I had made the job alot easier.

No problem! Nice work on the coolant filter bypass. I've always been surprised these things never had one built into it like the larger Cummins engines.

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

No problem! Nice work on the coolant filter bypass. I've always been surprised these things never had one built into it like the larger Cummins engines.

Yeah, everything we run has them on it. I was always amazed at how much junk a coolant filter will catch.

[mosesburb]

So I can finally get back to my auxiliary heater installation. Well, not so fast. Come to find out, the Optima in this pic has a bad cell:



I know, an Optima with a bad cell is so unusual and unique. Well, not so much as my S10 pickup barfed an Optima at this same time. Yup, bad cell. Imagine that. That one was still under warranty so I got it replaced, but the Suburban units were not under warranty. I stopped buying Optimas a couple years ago since their quality has completely tanked. I have not bought a battery that is not an Optima since 1989. I could not even guess as to how many I have purchased for my fleet and sold to my customers. This goes back to when they had offset posts. Fantastic batteries. They were a minimum six to seven year battery and out here that was unheard of. Even though they were big money, they were an easy purchase because you knew it was going to last a long time. Well, not anymore. They get just out of warranty and fail. Just like any other cheap battery, but these are not cheap batteries. I am tired of it. I want to say it is when they were bought by Johnson Controls and moved to Mexico, but I can't say for sure that is when they went south (went south, LOL!!) Anyway, I started researching Optima alternatives and there are a few now. I think the best commercially available AGM battery is the Odyssey. Amazing power for a given group size. Not everyone has them, but Die Hard Platinums are Odyssey batteries even though they claim they are not. One drawback to Odyssey batteries is the cost. They are pricey. Sometimes the Die Hard Platinums can be gotten on sale, but that is usually the best price available. Over priced?? I would not say that as they are REALLY good batteries.

Another readily available HIGH quality AGM battery is made by East Penn Manufacturing in The United States of America and sold under the Deka name. Anybody familiar with electric commodity handling equipment knows the Deka name. Forklifts, pallet jacks, man lifts etc, Deka has a battery for it. Their name is not as well known in the automotive battery market, but it should be. They make an AGM battery that lasts like the old Optimas did. Real good batteries, for a price that is typically a fair bit less than Optima's. I called East Penn Manufacturing and asked if I could buy direct from their facility in town here and they said I could, but that I could also buy from one of their distributors. He threw a couple names out there and I knew of one that was far away and the other I would not do business with, but then he said that Batteries Plus sells the Deka battery with their house brand label on it. I knew they used to (I have bought a few already), but I didn't know they still did. So I went up to Batteries Plus an picked up a couple Deka AGM Intimidator X2 batteries. My wallet left seeing stars, but I left saying Woo Hoo!! No more Optimas in my truck!!

Well, that presents another problem, or five. I built my battery trays to fit an Optima 34/78 or SCU34 or whatever number they are calling them now. It is basically a group 34/78 battery. A group 34 has top posts and a 78 has side posts (same size footprint for both batteries) and the Optima has both so it is basically a group 34/78. The only problem with Optima's classification of the 34/78 is their battery is about 1/4" shorter in length than a standard 34/78 battery case like the Deka uses. Being that I made my trays for the Optimas, I had to remake my trays. This all started as an auxiliary heater install.....

Ok, so the trays have to come out and be extended about 3/8". Lotta damn work for 3/8". So this brings out my power steering issues. Huh?? How the hell did we go from batteries to trays to power steering?!? Well, the driver side battery tray has some hoses running through the lower supports that require the hoses to be removed to facilitate the removal of the battery tray. Easy enough, right?? Well, not quite. Every time I have to get into the power steering system it takes a MINIMUM of three days to bleed the air out of the system. Then, a month later, I will take the cap off to check the level for maintenance purposes and it will throw up fluid out of the reservoir. Did it make fluid?? How did that happen?? I had thought from way back that a remote reservoir would help the situation, so I started looking around at different products available. I found PSC has a new reservoir that they didn't make when I built the truck originally. It is a super sweet deal that has return ports for the gear box and the hydroboost and a feed line to the pump. The BEST PART is it has an integral filter that can be changed without opening up the system like my spin-on required. Take the cap off, take a 5/16-18 bolt out, remove the filter, install a new filter and you're done. So simple. So easy. So expensive. This is becoming a VERY expensive month. So here it is along with the corresponding can for the pump:



I wanted to use the clamp, but I couldn't get it where I wanted it so I ended up using the mounting holes in the bottom and side of the base. I welded some bracketry to the side of my newly modified battery tray to hang it off of:




Then I hung the reservoir off of it. I bought some JIC push on fittings for the feed line from the reservoir to the pump, but I forgot to get the JIC push on fittings for the return lines so I ended up using weld-on AN fittings on the ends of the return tubes coming from the hydroboost and cooler, the using braided Teflon lined hose and fittings for the return lines because I had that stuff at the house. My wallet was giving me the finger over that slip of the mind.



Ok, so what?? How does it work?? In a word, great. I had 95% or more of the air out of the system before I ever started it just by cycling the wheel back and forth probably about a dozen times, but definitely less than twenty. I used to start with about sixty cycles of the wheel, then start the motor and let the emulsification begin. Bleh. No more. This thing is great. PSC has some great tech info on their site as well. That is where I learned my cooler was mounted incorrectly. I had it mounted ports down and on a stacked plate cooler it needs to be mounted ports up or to one side. When mounted to one side the flow is very specific. In on the bottom, out on the top. Otherwise air gets trapped at the top and strange problems occur--like somehow throwing up fluid a month later. The new configuration is visible in this pic:



I actually did all of that work in my driveway, in the rain, in full rain gear. That sucked. I could not lose the weekend. I had to have this ready for a run and taking the easy way out and not working because of the rain was going to keep the truck out of service for this run and I didn't want to miss it. If you ever want to make a long day longer, do it in rain gear. So I think I can get back to my auxilliary heater install now. I hope...

[Dieselwrencher]

Nice work! What PS pump did you use when you built this truck?

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by RINC

3-13-13

I saw the 'burb at your work !

Brought a smile to my face as I drove by.

Thanks!!

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

Nice work! What PS pump did you use when you built this truck?

The stock unit on the double vac pump housing (one vac pump removed for frame clearance). I only used the housing and shaft from the original pump. The rest of the internal components were new.

[rambler]

as always enjoy your pics and stories.. thanks for sharing!

[jbclassix]

Are those drive train breathers next to your clutch MC?
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[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by rambler

as always enjoy your pics and stories.. thanks for sharing!

Thanks for posting up!!

Originally Posted by jbclassix

Are those drive train breathers next to your clutch MC?
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Yep. Left to right are:

Front diff
Transmission
Transfer case
Rear diff
Fuel tank

I resisted the urge to make one large diamter one and tap the components into it. It would have been easier, but the way I have this one set up, if one line starts vomiting profusely I can tell at a glance which component is ill whereas with a single unit it would not be as easy. The main goal of either design was to get the breathers up high for the inevitable water crossings encountered on the trail.

[Dieselwrencher]

Do you have room to upgrade to the 2nd gen Vac/PS pump? They are a better working set up IMO.

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

Do you have room to upgrade to the 2nd gen Vac/PS pump? They are a better working set up IMO.

Yeah, I probably could, but the p/s pumps are the same (actually a slight input shaft difference) and all the now single vac pump is used for is a/c door functions.
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[jbclassix]

I went all the way back to page 2 so i could see your single vacuum pump. I like it!

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by mosesburb

Yeah, I probably could, but the p/s pumps are the same (actually a slight input shaft difference) and all the now single vac pump is used for is a/c door functions.
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There are actually some differences in the regulator and reservoir. I have had better luck with the later style set ups for what ever reason. I've had issues, like you, bleeding air from the early ps pumps.

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

There are actually some differences in the regulator and reservoir. I have had better luck with the later style set ups for what ever reason. I've had issues, like you, bleeding air from the early ps pumps.

Reservoir changes are irrelevant to my situation, but what is a regulator?? My airlock issues were all due to my own lack of knowledge of fluid power systems. If I would have engineered it correctly from the beginning, my problems would have been minimal if there were any at all. It all seemed simple enough, but boy I sure learned that there is a lot more to know than just how to hook the parts together.

[1985-GMC]

I think one has a bigger orifice inside which makes higher flow/ pressure.

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by 1985-GMC

I think one has a bigger orifice inside which makes higher flow/ pressure.

Bingo, you hit it.

[mosesburb]

All the guts are later model parts anyways.

[mosesburb]

The auxiliary heater installation. Sounds easy enough. Didn't see the head gasket coming, nor the cylinder head refresh. The batteries, oof. The power steering update/modifications. None of it. I just want to install my auxiliary heater. Now why in the world does a cat from Phoenix need an auxiliary heater?? Good question. After a run up south of Williams in early fall where I had some issues with the "buddy" heaters (both little Buddy and the regular Buddy Heater) I started looking at alternatives. The Buddy heaters work ok(ish) in ideal situations, but they have their drawbacks in my situation. With three people in the cabin, it gets a bit crampt making enough room to safely burn a Buddy heater. Also, the fiberboard headliner gets really hot above the heater. Getting the catalyst brick to light off when it is cold and at altitude takes quite awhile and while it is trying to heat up it is burning way fat and stinking up the inside of the truck. Not ideal.

I first looked at air heaters like the ones that are used in the sleepers on big trucks. They have their positive attributes (they make a ton of hot air), but to me, seem to have more negative ones. They need alot of free space around them. The combustion occurs inside the unit, inside the cabin of the vehicle. Makes some noise. My buddy Lance had one in his Sportsmobile and was not thrilled with it. That got me to looking at other possibilities. There is a heater that is similar to the air heater, but it heats coolant instead of air. Hmmm, this could solve a couple problems.

One of the obvious problems would be cabin heat, but another less obvious is cold starting. Now when I refer to cold starting I'm not talking about cold in Phoenix. 20* in PHX is not the same as 20* in Flagstaff. Besides the altitude, the 20* there is more "real" whereas the PHX 20* will only be there until the sun comes up, but even at that a quick bump of the starter and it will run. It will not do that in a genuine cold situation. If you haven't experienced it, search YouTube for "Cummins cold start". Mine sounds that bad. The heater is installed in between the engine and the heater core. It has a pump in it that will pump the coolant when the heater is running and the engine is not. It has a controller that will turn the blower motor on low to defrost the windows. After the heated water goes through the heater core, it flows into the engine where it warms that up as well. It is really an amazing setup.

The heater: It is a Webasto Blue Heat unit. This is the full pimp model. I even got the remote control unit for it. Push the button on the key fob and it starts. No leaving the house, motel room or sleeping bag in the back.



That is the basic install. It has no hoses going to it yet, but it is the only pic that I got of the unit. It is amazingly compact for what it does. It drinks diesel fuel to the tune of .8gal/10hrs. It required a dip tube be installed in the fuel tank:



So I didn't want to run the blower motor all night off and on. It is quite a distance away from the back and it draws a fair bit of amperage. A rear heater assembly would be better. I dug through a heater core catalog and came up with a couple options. The first one did not work for size reasons. The second one did work and quite well at that. It needed an enclosure so I fabbed one up that was fairly compact.



I realized after I had gotten most of it tacked together that I had the expanded metal rotated a bit. I thought about cutting it apart, but that's about as far as I got. I need a fan now. I was talking to my buddy Russ (Russ' 24hr Machine Service) and he had built a new computer recently and had a fan on it that moved ridiculous amounts of air. I got the name and ordered one from Newegg. Fifteen bones and free shipping. Sweet deal!! It moves a fair bit of air, is absolutely silent and pulls a maximum .25 amp.



So I am going to mount it right behind the third door. It will pull the air from the spare tire area. That means the air I am going to try to heat will run along side a very cold quarter panel. I pulled the panel and washed out the inside of the quarter and installed some FatMat acoustic insulation and then went over that with the foil coated bubble wrap stuff for thermal insulation.



Then I needed a new interior panel. I had been rocking the original cardboard units with the vinyl covering, but they were not going to be able to deal with the hole that I needed to cut in them. Something else was needed. Enter a sheet of metal way thicker than it needed to be.

First I made a template off the old one. Then I laid the template in place in the truck and cut out the hole I needed to clear the heater core. Then I transferred that onto the sheet metal and got after it with a plasma cutter.



Then I added a reinforcement rib and some sound deadener to the back side of the new panel and put some carpet on the outside:



Then I added it all together and came up with this:



The heater hoses run in front of the right rear tire: (the zip ties were a temporary deal--they have been replaced with factory Adel clamps)



I figured this was asking for problems so I got a mud flap to cut up to fill the space and give the hoses some armor. Got this Koneta Safety Guard Anti Sail/Anti Spray unit courtesy of the back curbing at the Love's truck stop in beautiful (gack) downtown Eloy AZ.



Laid out the dimensions on it:



Cut it and fit it into place:



So there it is. My heater is finally installed and we are ready to go. Or are we??

[MrBeast]

Cool setup.

Are you running inner fenderwells in the front?

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by MrBeast

Cool setup.

Are you running inner fenderwells in the front?

Yes, absolutely. I had the right one out for this install and that is when I noticed the head gasket was seeping, thus starting the snowball rolling and rolling and..........

[MrBeast]

Originally Posted by mosesburb

Yes, absolutely. I had the right one out for this install and that is when I noticed the head gasket was seeping, thus starting the snowball rolling and rolling and..........

Funny how that works isn't it.