1976 Square "Simple Green"

[Crushkrew]

Originally Posted by ray1970

Ray here.
The cam thing is very good to know.
On what page did you find this in the manual? lol

As you most likely know the butterfly's on the Fitech run 1 to 1 unlike most holly stile carbs which can make throttle control fun or challenging .
..Out of boredom I changed mine to progressive to see what would happen
1.Much easer throttle pull.
2.Toned down throttle response. This made it easer to drive in the rain..at 550hp this can be an eye opener in the low gears.
3.Not as much fun..but just as fast.


Ray.

Ray....can you explain how you converted to progressive?

AND...Rodsgreen10....great thread and tips...my 600 power adder and fcc should ship on 1/13...can't wait...

AND...is the firewall block powered by a battery cable sized wire or smaller?...I have heard that other FI systems like to be hooked directly to battery...yes 12v is 12v...but when cranking I would imagine that every AMP to the FI counts....shortest distance and least amount of draw on a wire and all that...

Keep the tips coming...great stuff...

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by Crushkrew

Ray....can you explain how you converted to progressive?

AND...Rodsgreen10....great thread and tips...my 600 power adder and fcc should ship on 1/13...can't wait...

AND...is the firewall block powered by a battery cable sized wire or smaller?...I have heard that other FI systems like to be hooked directly to battery...yes 12v is 12v...but when cranking I would imagine that every AMP to the FI counts....shortest distance and least amount of draw on a wire and all that...

Keep the tips coming...great stuff...

If you look on the throttle linkage the secondary connecting rod that is how you adjust from 1:1 to progressive. If you look it is on the bottom hole you have 2 holes above that move the rod up on the other holes.
Now about the battery. It is not Amps that will cause problems with the FiTech it is volts. So taking my volt meter at battery and at block the voltage drop is ruffly the same just maybe .5 volt difference at the block. So to remedy that I need to go bigger on the wire from alternator and from block down to starter. A larger wire 8 gauge or bigger will reduce/stop voltage drop.
I sent Jeremy a email asking him about this issue and connecting to block vs battery. He is the brains behind all of this.

[RodsGreen10]

Ok so I checked resting volts at battery and the block on the firewall.both read 12.5. So did a crank test crank at the battery and at the block both read 10.5. So to me it would not make a difference if it is wired directly to the battery or the block. This **** is driving me crazy!!!

[Crushkrew]

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

Ok so I checked resting volts at battery and the block on the firewall.both read 12.5. So did a crank test crank at the battery and at the block both read 10.5. So to me it would not make a difference if it is wired directly to the battery or the block. This **** is driving me crazy!!!

Yea...that is frustrating. ...so i guess your theroy is that 10.5v must be too low to effectively run the EFI for start up....didn't you mention in a previous post you tried it with a jump box hooked up? Same drop?

[Crushkrew]

So....I have been doing some mental masterbation....after a bunch of JD single barrels...and modern FI systems...like my ram truck...have lesser gauge starter cables than what we are running....this cold start problem that you are having has to stem from another source...hoping that Fitech can direct us in the right direction....even at 10.5 volts...injectors and coil should be firing enough to start...shiz we have all started carbed motors on less....ie..that time when battery was close to dead and she started.......pls let us know what Fitech comes back with...I know you will as evident by this comprehensive thread....

[RodsGreen10]

Happy New Year everyone.

So I have been thinking and looking and reading. If the vehicle temp is over 100 the truck turns over no problem. Anything below that and I am having the cold start carb issue is what I will call it lol. Even with a jumper on the system. So I still think it has to do with a setting. Not the location I have the 12v wire hooked up on the FiTech. I know that when I had a carb it would take 3-4 pumps so it would turn over. So idk if I still am not getting enough fuel on startup and after start fuel isn't enough. It will crank and run for a few sec then die. Then after that it really is a pain in the ass to start. I will get it figured out I didn't spend this much damn money and time for this thing not to fire off on the first crank.

[ray1970]

Ray here.

One tech asked me to look at the controller to if it showed any RPMs while cranking it over to see if there was a single being sent to the ecu when I was having one of my starting problem's(one of many)

I know you didn't do this but I just plug in my temp sender and let it hang.(night one)
the only way it would start was on spray...you know poring fuel in .STUPED

Ray.

[ray1970]

Ray here.

Current starting problem (for me)
I was sent the wrong body the first time NONE power adder once I got my mind working
and things put together right it started at below freezing with out issue.

Was sent the right body and controller this set up has never started as well the first.
I tried resetting the learning mode and a few other things.
I have yet to try putting the none adder back on.
or just swap the chip in the controllers..........Maybe today...
Before I send it back..Im holding it hostage till something is done with at lest one controller

Ray.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by ray1970

Ray here.

One tech asked me to look at the controller to if it showed any RPMs while cranking it over to see if there was a single being sent to the ecu when I was having one of my starting problem's(one of many)

I know you didn't do this but I just plug in my temp sender and let it hang.(night one)
the only way it would start was on spray...you know poring fuel in .STUPED

Ray.

Got RPM signal. No issue with that.

[swampbog]

Rodsgreen10
I don't think hooking it up to the battery is going to make a difference either.
How's the fuel pressure at the cold start and after it dies?
I know you already replaced the fuel pump once but it still could always be a slight chance there is an issue again.
As your cranking do you see gas going down the throttle body?
I imagined you verified the ignition timing is correct and didn't move.
Does it run smooth after it finally starts and stays running?
What happens when you first start it and hold the throttle open before it dies? Does it stay running or still dies?
As you can tell I'm think it's somehow fuel related. I'm wondering since it starts fine when it's at 100 degrees could it be a fuel drain back issue, where when its cold it means it sat for a while and fuel has drained back and when it starts fine when it's warm the fuel hasn't had a chance to drain back all the way yet.
It starts and then dies and then has a hard timing starting again, like it's has air in the fuel lines??

[ray1970]

Ray here.
Give me a little time I will come up with something else I balled up on..
Well there was the Ing.thing but that's to long a story.....

Ray.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by swampbog

Rodsgreen10
I don't think hooking it up to the battery is going to make a difference either.
How's the fuel pressure at the cold start and after it dies?
I know you already replaced the fuel pump once but it still could always be a slight chance there is an issue again.
As your cranking do you see gas going down the throttle body?
I imagined you verified the ignition timing is correct and didn't move.
Does it run smooth after it finally starts and stays running?
What happens when you first start it and hold the throttle open before it dies? Does it stay running or still dies?
As you can tell I'm think it's somehow fuel related. I'm wondering since it starts fine when it's at 100 degrees could it be a fuel drain back issue, where when its cold it means it sat for a while and fuel has drained back and when it starts fine when it's warm the fuel hasn't had a chance to drain back all the way yet.
It starts and then dies and then has a hard timing starting again, like it's has air in the fuel lines??

Thanks guys it's funny the people helping don't even have a c10 truck lol.
Honestly not looked at fuel pressure on start up. FiTech got my mind on this battery BS. Which I agree it won't change if I move it to the battery.
And I agree I think it is fuel related also. But I have not had time to mess with it. Been packing and stuff trying to go out of town for funeral. I did mess with it yesterday but no dice. Went back over every connection checked HEI upgrade stuff I did check plug wires I made. All damn good if I say so myself lol. Only thing I didn't check is fuel stuff. I am going to add a few more grounds to the truck and make sure I am not having a ground issue for some reason. Cause like I posted when I crank it and it starts and runs for a few sec and now this morning it won't Run for a few sec. The damn handheld goes white. I have to unplug the handheld plug it back in. And FiTech keeps telling me check afr on crank well it's hard to check it when screen goes white out on you. Lol. It's always some ****. Keep it coming guys **** maybe between us and FiTech we can get it fixed. As I have seen online that I am not the only one with cold start issues.

[swampbog]

And one the battery cables.
I took the wimpy battery cables off my Jeep as I was putting in new power cables for my winch. I used the old winch power cables and made them in to battery cables (1/0 gage).
I have both a hot and a ground cable going to my starter and my alternator.
My Jeep never had the starter motor spin so fast before, it's a PowerMaster XS torque not some wimpy auto zone special. During the summer time I can pump my pedal a couple of times and just touch the key and the motor spins up and starts.
I really believe in a dedicated grounds and running the biggest wire I can to the starter and alternator.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by ray1970

Ray here.
Give me a little time I will come up with something else I balled up on..
Well there was the Ing.thing but that's to long a story.....

Ray.

That's the thing Ray I have verified all my connection power ignition you name it all are working as intended. So the last real phone conversation I had with FiTech yesterday was if screen is going white when I try and crank it "now this only happens when cold warm no issue" they are saying power or ground issue. But let's say I crank it and it does not start screen does not white out but if I crank it and it runs for a few secs and it dies then screen goes white. So I am going to add a couple more grounds. I know the damn thing is grounded correctly if not my HEI EFI friendly module would not be working and producing a RPM signal.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by swampbog

And one the battery cables.
I took the wimpy battery cables off my Jeep as I was putting in new power cables for my winch. I used the old winch power cables and made them in to battery cables (1/0 gage).
I have both a hot and a ground cable going to my starter and my alternator.
My Jeep never had the starter motor spin so fast before, it's a PowerMaster XS torque not some wimpy auto zone special. During the summer time I can pump my pedal a couple of times and just touch the key and the motor spins up and starts.
I really believe in a dedicated grounds and running the biggest wire I can to the starter and alternator.

Well we are on the same page with that ruffly the same that I have. 4 gauge is what I am using and powermaster stater also. But that you mention it I don't believe I have a ground at the alternator hmmm. I had one with my old motor but this new setup I don't believe I have it ground why hell if I know. I don't even see the original ground for it.

[swampbog]

Since FiTech is closed till Monday you really can't get much help from them till then.
Go spend time with your family and give this a fresh look when you get back, this can wait.


I'll be looking online and seeing what others are saying on the cold start, I'm wondering if it's a setting internally that might be causing it. After all FiTech is in California and they probably don't get as cold as we do.
You didn't have this issue when it was in the 50's did you?

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

Thanks guys it's funny the people helping don't even have a c10 truck lol.

Well, I'm helping because I'm using you as a guinea pig so I hopefully don't have the same issues.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by swampbog

Since FiTech is closed till Monday you really can't get much help from them till then.
Go spend time with your family and give this a fresh look when you get back, this can wait.


I'll be looking online and seeing what others are saying on the cold start, I'm wondering if it's a setting internally that might be causing it. After all FiTech is in California and they probably don't get as cold as we do.
You didn't have this issue when it was in the 50's did you?

Had this issue from day one. If it's cold no go over 100 it's all good.
O I have the 2 main cogs emails I will blow them up to get a response lol. Yes I need to spend time with family but this helps me take my mind off of everything that has happens this week. Thanks man.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by swampbog

Well, I'm helping because I'm using you as a guinea pig so I hopefully don't have the same issues.

Lmao!!

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

That's the thing Ray I have verified all my connection power ignition you name it all are working as intended. So the last real phone conversation I had with FiTech yesterday was if screen is going white when I try and crank it "now this only happens when cold warm no issue" they are saying power or ground issue. But let's say I crank it and it does not start screen does not white out but if I crank it and it runs for a few secs and it dies then screen goes white. So I am going to add a couple more grounds. I know the damn thing is grounded correctly if not my HEI EFI friendly module would not be working and producing a RPM signal.

Loose ground? Shakes and gets a bad connection when the engine is running?
For ****s and giggles, run a dedicated ground and hot to the battery. Nothing fancy just a few wires going straight over to the battery.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by swampbog

Loose ground? Shakes and gets a bad connection when the engine is running?
For ****s and giggles, run a dedicated ground and hot to the battery. Nothing fancy just a few wires going straight over to the battery.

Could be. The truck does like to rock on start up and sitting gotta love a big cam. Lol. And swamp that is what I am planning on doing we are on the same page this morning haha.

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

Had this issue from day one. If it's cold no go over 100 it's all good.
O I have the 2 main cogs emails I will blow them up to get a response lol. Yes I need to spend time with family but this helps me take my mind off of everything that has happens this week. Thanks man.

But this is now the first time it started dieing after it starts? Or that was always
the case?
Same with the white screen?

[swampbog]

I've did a quick glance at the installation instructions and I don't see a ground wire.
Is there a ground wire or do they have it just grounding through the block?

[ray1970]

Ray here.
When I was having the battery problem was the only time my screen went BLANK.....every time I tried to start it..
Low voltage.....
has never happened again.

Ray.

[swampbog]

They don't have this grounding thorough the throttle body itself do they?
I imagine you have a none conductive gasket between the body and the intake, so the only ground it gets is through the "carb to intake" bolts. Which is basically electrically hampered by the powder coating they have on the throttle body.?.