S10 Swap how to

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by KRFitz

Thanks for the reply and photos. Much appreciated. I will also explore what may be available to purchasing new to get into a smaller rad/condenser, but I now know this is an option. I'm sure I will have a million more questions. How about fitting the drive shaft...if the motor has to be moved back 8", does the front shaft get a section cut out? Not sure why they went with a 2 piece drive shaft on these trucks? Thanks

replace it with a one piece shaft, usually you can find one that is close in length, for example a longbed driveshaft is usually 64" overall and a reg cab colorado driveshaft is 54" long. when you factor in that lowering the rear makes the driveshaft shorter (lowering an s10 you usually shorten a driveshaft 1" to keep the yoke from cramming into the trans) so 54 is almost perfect.


measure your driveshaft to be sure, center of u joint to center of u joint. I dont recommend shortening the two piece because the front shaft will end up ~12" long and you will want to replace the carrier bearing while you are working on it, might as well just put that towards a one piece.

[gigamanx]

As a guide if anyone is interested in what measurements you end up with using a 4 1/2" front cab mount and how it affects ride height and all the other measurements. Measurements are without any suspension modifications. The cab mount also has a 1/2" rubber mount on top for a total of 5" from top of frame to bottom of the cab cross member that contains the mount hole.

[KRFitz]

Thanks for posting the measurements. Is this the typical tire sizes guys are using front and back? Not that there's a standard, but what have you found works well for wheel sizes for a lowered look?

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by KRFitz

Thanks for posting the measurements. Is this the typical tire sizes guys are using front and back? Not that there's a standard, but what have you found works well for wheel sizes for a lowered look?

Diagram doesn't have the front tire size I would go for, but that's what is on the car so I had to take measurements from there. I'll probably update the diagram when I get a new front tire. The rear ones are new and I did enough research of various builds that the average tire diameter is 29" for the front and rear. The size does fill the rear fender out fairly nicely and tucks in well for a lowered truck.

Tucked in with the right spacers and 2" drop spindles, 29"x8" front tires seems to be the consensus, but I haven't tried that myself yet to confirm that there is no rubbing.

Borrowed from a different thread:

Originally Posted by joedoh

the rear tire is a 235/75/15, I like that tire on almost every truck

[skymangs]

i beg to differ, i have used two piece shafts and old carrier bearings many times and never had a problem i just shorten the front half, and it is NEVER anywhere near 12" long! works out nicely, cause you don't have to mess with moving the carrier bearing.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by skymangs

and it is NEVER anywhere near 12" long!

looks like you are right, 12" would be much longer than the actual measurement. my comment was actually about cost, a rcsb driveshaft is $50-60 in a salvage, shortening a two piece would be double that and you would probably replace the carrier "while you were in there"

[ThadandDad48]

Glad to see this thread is still active. My 14 year old son and I are currently working on a swap just like this have built cab mounts very similar to the design shown only using 4" square tubing (son actually did all the welding to assemble the mounts. have moved the motor into position and made mounts and are currently working on the core support.
All the info here is great look forward to getting this truck together and running. We are using the 4.3 vortec out of the 1998 s10 we purchased and using the 4L60E that was behind it. Also had a 2001 short bed we used as a frame donor stretched it to 116" as others have previously mentioned. The short bed had no engine or tranny when we purchased but did have the old tranny cross member in the bed which I was able to rework to act as a trans support and only had to drill 2 holes in the frame. Any suggestions for brake pedal since both our s10s have the huge aluminum casting assembly and they don't look like they would be easy to remove or rework for repurposing in the 48?

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by ThadandDad48

Glad to see this thread is still active. My 14 year old son and I are currently working on a swap just like this have built cab mounts very similar to the design shown only using 4" square tubing (son actually did all the welding to assemble the mounts. have moved the motor into position and made mounts and are currently working on the core support.
All the info here is great look forward to getting this truck together and running. We are using the 4.3 vortec out of the 1998 s10 we purchased and using the 4L60E that was behind it. Also had a 2001 short bed we used as a frame donor stretched it to 116" as others have previously mentioned. The short bed had no engine or tranny when we purchased but did have the old tranny cross member in the bed which I was able to rework to act as a trans support and only had to drill 2 holes in the frame. Any suggestions for brake pedal since both our s10s have the huge aluminum casting assembly and they don't look like they would be easy to remove or rework for repurposing in the 48?

I had used the 4x4 tubing at 4 1/4". Worked a charm. I did cut a little notch from mine and glad I did. It barely clears the edge of the lower cab corner when lowering the cab onto them. Feel free to check out my project build for a core support mount.

[Black93GT]

Originally Posted by skymangs

i beg to differ, i have used two piece shafts and old carrier bearings many times and never had a problem

That's how I made it work. I actually used one half of a 4wd drive shaft and the other was from a 2wd. I had to fabricate a bracket to set the carrier bearing back. It won't be my permanent solution but was able to make it work for free and right away.

[1952ssr]

A drive shaft from a late '90's caprice or roadmaster will work fine using a V8 and 4L60 tranny if you want to go with one piece.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by ThadandDad48

Any suggestions for brake pedal since both our s10s have the huge aluminum casting assembly and they don't look like they would be easy to remove or rework for repurposing in the 48?

I have made a big interface bracket on a couple trucks to use the 98-03 pedal bracket but I have changed my tune lately, its very heavy and needs a lot of reinforcing.

If you want a simple brake pedal setup, skymangs shows how to use a 82-93 s10 pedal bracket on page 2.

[skymangs]

this is a shortened 2 piece driveshaft, no where near 12" long with the original carrier bearing. we have been driving it for over 4 years now, so don't tell me it can't be done! cost about $100 to have a driveshaft shortened/balanced. i don't know about you, but i don't have time to go scrounging around a j/y every build.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by skymangs

i don't know about you, but i don't have time to go scrounging around a j/y every build.

scrounging? I call them on the phone and say I need this driveshaft. the last one was 60 bucks and wasnt any more driving than it takes to go to the driveshaft shop, and I had it to install the same day. add to that, the 98+ longbeds came with a one piece shaft, so they dont even have a carrier bearing crossmember.

I can agree to disagree, but dang if it doesnt seem like your way is the "more money more work more time" way.

edit: and I am looking again, your trans is a TH350 which is shorter than the 4L60e in my picture.

[Black93GT]

Originally Posted by joedoh

I have made a big interface bracket on a couple trucks to use the 98-03 pedal bracket but I have changed my tune lately, its very heavy and needs a lot of reinforcing.

Wow... More power to you. I took a look at the one in my 98 donor truck and knew within seconds it would be too much work. (Granted, making 82-93 pedals straddle the column to match the original spacing wasn't light in the fabrication department either)

[skymangs]

I've also done 4L60's. 6 of one half dozen of the other, I'm just saying it can be done. and it's not the horrible headache you make it out to be.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by skymangs

I've also done 4L60's. 6 of one half dozen of the other, I'm just saying it can be done. and it's not the horrible headache you make it out to be.

I didnt say it was impossible. I didnt say it couldnt be done. I didnt even say it was a headache. you said I said all that. but I didnt.

I said, and I am paraphrasing, "why bother with a two piece when you have such a short front section?". the reason for having a two piece, because the shaft is over 57" long, doesnt exist on a 53-55" shaft.

the cheapest carrier bearing is 32 bucks, the least expensive shop in my area to shorten a shaft is ITP and their cost this time last year was $124. thats ~$150, a rcsb s10 driveshaft is 50-60 dollars. THATS what I said. I even have the two piece as a tranny plug (what I usually do) or to sell on craigslist.

[Speedysdad]

Since I am going with the one piece drive shaft route, it appears that I may need to take out the riveted crossmember (carrier bearing mount) out and move it underneath the frame and turn it upside down. I think I have seen others who have done that in their pics.

[frankist]

Thanks for the diagram Gigamanx, not 100% sure what motor you are going with Speedysdad, but if 5.3 vortec, rear dump camero headers that skymangs mention is the way to go. I tried a few different option and found that those fit best with the correct outlet direction giving a lot of room to wiggle the motor to its final destination. With those headers and skymangs designed motor mounts, my one piece driveshaft did not need the center support bearing mount modified or removed. Hope this helps, can provide a picture if you need one.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by Speedysdad

Since I am going with the one piece drive shaft route, it appears that I may need to take out the riveted crossmember (carrier bearing mount) out and move it underneath the frame and turn it upside down. I think I have seen others who have done that in their pics.

you shouldnt need to do that, you can either just leave it as is and the driveshaft may not be very close (depending on how much you lower the truck) or you can just notch it a little to clear the driveshaft. you can plate it back it, or just leave it open.

its not a crucial crossmember and I say that because it is riveted to the bottom of a channel instead of tying the top and bottom of the channel as an important crossmember would (like the gas tank crossmember) or have the frame boxed in that area. the later longbeds dont even have that crossmember, but the inside of the frame rails are boxed on the 98+. I will stop short of saying completely remove it, but its not a beefy frame crossmember.

[OutlawDrifter]

Meh, I removed mine completely. My tranny x-member is pretty heavy and makes up for it though.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by OutlawDrifter

Meh, I removed mine completely. My tranny x-member is pretty heavy and makes up for it though.

I think you are gonna be fine haha. I just stopped short of telling someone to go ahead and remove it

[dettmer13]

Hello everyone. I've built my cab stands according to skymang's version 2 plans, and mounted them to the given measurement away from the oval hole. Everything is going together well, but I'm a bit concerned with the clearance of the front wheels in relation to the fender. I plan on lowering it 2" using Belltech 2102 spindles with new stock coil springs. If the experts think everything is OK and it'll clear, then I'll move forward. Any input is appreciated.

[joedoh]

1. your front clip is pointing down in relation to the cab. this happens more than you think on this swap. raise it so the body line on the fender is level with the bottom of the door.

2. it looks like you might be mounted a bit far back, but to be sure, did you replace the upper control arms? if you swap them side to side or use the speedway tubular uppers and get them on upside down? the wheel will move forward a lot in either case. did you take out any caster shims? it also sets the wheel forward if they are removed. if you havent messed with the control arms, triple check your measurement and make sure the body mounts are level and plumb. for example, the body being low on the rear mounts will cause the problem stated in #1 and lean the cab back.

[tlorber]

Your front fender and hood DO appear to be aiming down a bit, although that may just be the camera angle. I've noticed on my truck that as I put more weight on the front end the wheels articulate to the rear slightly. Is everything currently in place? (i.e. motor, tranny, radiator etc.).

Here's how mine ended up with everything in place. I still want to drop the front end a bit and probably get larger tires in the front.

[dettmer13]

Originally Posted by joedoh

1. your front clip is pointing down in relation to the cab. this happens more than you think on this swap. raise it so the body line on the fender is level with the bottom of the door.

2. it looks like you might be mounted a bit far back, but to be sure, did you replace the upper control arms? if you swap them side to side or use the speedway tubular uppers and get them on upside down? the wheel will move forward a lot in either case. did you take out any caster shims? it also sets the wheel forward if they are removed. if you havent messed with the control arms, triple check your measurement and make sure the body mounts are level and plumb. for example, the body being low on the rear mounts will cause the problem stated in #1 and lean the cab back.

joedoh, The front clip is facing down right now because I was following the Stovebolt forum directions to get my hood alignment and fenders to line up before I welded in my core support, but I will make the proper adjustment to check for wheel clearance first. Also, I haven't messed with the suspension at all yet. Everything is just as stock as it came on the S10. I'll get under the truck and make some measurements to be sure everything is level and plumb. I'm pretty sure I wasn't drinking when I fabbed them and/or tacked them in. I do have the motor and transmission in the truck right now, but not the radiator. I'll let you know what I find.