1965 Stepside, The LST Challenge

[aggie91]

Originally Posted by doublebeetx

Karl , will y'all be parking the truck in the area C10 club Texas is marking off ?

I wish I could have. We ended up with my son's buddy bringing his ford too...

[aggie91]

Well, I did not make the goal of getting the truck to LST. We stopped at about 3:30am on Friday morning, got a bit of sleep then got back at it around 8:30 to try to start it. No luck, we trouble shot it for about 3.5 hours and not progress except to find a few wiring issues with the trucks wiring and the ignition switch. Fixed or bypassed those to crank and try to start it again. NOTHING. We have spark and fuel to the rails, the air is there too.

I gave up and decided to just head down to the show and enjoy the weekend and hangout. We headed out at about 2 and got down there about 5 that afternoon to check out the show and find our hotel. Got set up the next morning and had a great time. I will post a few pics later after I get them downloaded off my phone.

Here is what it looks like now:



During the weekend, I talked to a few people and brainstormed ideas as to what could be wrong. I think the first step it to check that the PCM is firing the injectors, and to clean the injectors since they have been sitting for who knows how long. One idea is that they are stuck closed and that is keeping it from firing up. This makes some sense to me, since while we are cranking it over, we don't smell any gas fumes at all.

I am going to step away from it a bit and get a few home issues taken care of and watch a few of my son's baseball games, and attend one of my daughter's gym competitions.

Stay tuned as I work to fire this pig up...

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by aggie91

Well, I did not make the goal of getting the truck to LST. We stopped at about 3:30am on Friday morning, got a bit of sleep then got back at it around 8:30 to try to start it. No luck, we trouble shot it for about 3.5 hours and not progress except to find a few wiring issues with the trucks wiring and the ignition switch. Fixed or bypassed those to crank and try to start it again. NOTHING. We have spark and fuel to the rails, the air is there too.

I gave up and decided to just head down to the show and enjoy the weekend and hangout. We headed out at about 2 and got down there about 5 that afternoon to check out the show and find our hotel. Got set up the next morning and had a great time. I will post a few pics later after I get them downloaded off my phone.

During the weekend, I talked to a few people and brainstormed ideas as to what could be wrong. I think the first step it to check that the PCM is firing the injectors, and to clean the injectors since they have been sitting for who knows how long. One idea is that they are stuck closed and that is keeping it from firing up. This makes some sense to me, since while we are cranking it over, we don't smell any gas fumes at all.

I am going to step away from it a bit and get a few home issues taken care of and watch a few of my son's baseball games, and attend one of my daughter's gym competitions.

Stay tuned as I work to fire this pig up...

You put forth quite the effort so I'm sorry it didn't work out for you guys.

[greg65]

Subscribed.

[Low Elco]

Well? We're dyyyyyin' over here!

[Low Elco]

Sorry you didn't make it. Just for giggles- check the ground in the harness at the pan rail on the drivers side. We were dead as a stone, had a tech 2 scanner saying all was well, tried different computers, etc. and I had missed putting it on. Screwed it in, fired right up like nothing ever happened.

[scoot_mcgrute]

I just had a dumb thought, I saw your facebook post over the weekend about it and it seems that you have overturned every rock you can to diagnose the no start deal.

I have heard on some newer cars, if the computer doesn't get an oil pressure signal, it will not start the car. I have no idea if this is the case here at all but it's a thought that came to mind. On those systems, I don't know if it cuts fuel or spark, or even if it's a real system put in place. Just thinking outside the box a bit.

[aggie91]

Scoot - I thought about that too. On the LS with the PCM that I am using, the OE oil pressure sender does not even go to the PCM, so I doubt that's the problem. Good thought anyway...

This is the 3rd one that I have done with this year model PCM and engine set up. I really think it is the stuck injectors or the wiring that I had to add to this cut up harness, which was the injectors and the Oxygen sensors. Once I get shop time again, I am going to verify that its firing the injectors, if it is, then I will pull the injectors and clean them and verify that they open and close when hit with 12V.

[BEK&TBKinNC]

Karl,
Could you tell me about the master cylinder you used?
Is it a disc/disc master?
Are you using a porportioning valve?
Did you modify the pedal pushrod or use as is?
Where did you get it from?( part number)

Thanks for you time,
Brian

[aggie91]

I got it from RockAuto, it is a RAYBESTOS MC36367.

It is a disc/disc manual master cylinder for a 1969 Corvette. I have used it before without a proportioning valve and will try that again on this truck. I used the stock '65 manual brake pushrod and did not make any adjustments to it. If I end of needing a proportioning valve, I will add an adjustable one to the rear line only.

[BEK&TBKinNC]

Thanks for the reply and the information.
Hope you get the bugs figured out soon and get to drive that truck.

Brian

[aggie91]

I haven't even touched the truck in the last 10 days. I hope to get out tonight and pull the injectors to get them soaking to clean them up...

[aggie91]

I got an unexpected 30 minutes in the shop last night. I decided to pull the injectors and see what's up with them. Pulled the Driver side first and all four would not cycle using an 18v Ryobi battery. So pulled the other 4 and have them soaking in cleaner overnight, then if I have time tonight, I will get them to cycle. If time permits, I will attempt to fire it up again...

Because I know you guys like pictures...

[aggie91]

Finally!

Last nights shop time was productive, but not 100% a success. I was still having issues with getting 2 of the injectors to free up and cycle. So, I started searching thru Korbin's old parts stash from when he turbo'd his truck and switched to Deka 80's. I got lucky, found his old set of truck injectors. I was going to just use 2 of them, but noticed that the PN on them was different than the ones I was cleaning. Instead of mixing in a different PN, I tested each of his, they all cycled. I did a quick cleaning and installed them in my engine. Got it all buttoned up, put the battery back in and tried to start up this pig. It did not like it a first, but did get it to start and run for a second or two a few times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaCvt_ZXa8g

Anyway, I need to figure out why it won't stay running, but at least I know it does now. I need to work on a few small issues and address the truck's wiring problems but it is progress in the right direction!

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by aggie91

Finally!

Last nights shop time was productive, but not 100% a success. I was still having issues with getting 2 of the injectors to free up and cycle. So, I started searching thru Korbin's old parts stash from when he turbo'd his truck and switched to Deka 80's. I got lucky, found his old set of truck injectors. I was going to just use 2 of them, but noticed that the PN on them was different than the ones I was cleaning. Instead of mixing in a different PN, I tested each of his, they all cycled. I did a quick cleaning and installed them in my engine. Got it all buttoned up, put the battery back in and tried to start up this pig. It did not like it a first, but did get it to start and run for a second or two a few times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaCvt_ZXa8g

Anyway, I need to figure out why it won't stay running, but at least I know it does now. I need to work on a few small issues and address the truck's wiring problems but it is progress in the right direction!

Big or small, progress is progress.

[aggie91]

Got a response from Brendon at lt1swap.com, he runs a verification test to make sure the changes took to the PCM before sending it out. He reviewed the file for my PCM and it all took. OK, so its not the VATS.

I got out into the shop and looked over the engine and checked a few things he mentioned. All those looked good. I changed the wiring I was using to start it by adding a momentary switch so that I did not have to hold wires together. I fixed some obvious vacuum leaks. Tested the fuel system to make sure it was coming on briefly before starting. I noticed that it filled the rails, like it had leaked down while it has been sitting overnight. I did not have my fuel pressure gauge, so I could not measure pressure.

Cycle the fuel pump a few times to make sure I did not hear fuel rushing into the rails anymore and assumed that I had pressure now at the rail. I hit the switch and the engine fired up and ran. It settled in to a nice idle. I did not run it long since I don't have the belt (belt I got was about 2" too long) to run the water pump to keep it cool. Check out the short video...

Success!

That accomplishment made my whole day. I was starting to just say the hell with it and push it back outside and cover it up. Glad I gave it one more try.

I'll get a different belt on the way home today and see it I can get it to fit correctly. If I can, I will let it warm up and since it is still on stands, run the trans thru the gears to make sure that it turns the tires... If it all checks out, I will fix the truck wiring so that I can start it with the key and get this front boot on Old Blue this weekend.

I just might get to drive this thing again for the first time in 17 years...

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by aggie91

Got a response from Brendon at lt1swap.com, he runs a verification test to make sure the changes took to the PCM before sending it out. He reviewed the file for my PCM and it all took. OK, so its not the VATS.

I got out into the shop and looked over the engine and checked a few things he mentioned. All those looked good. I changed the wiring I was using to start it by adding a momentary switch so that I did not have to hold wires together. I fixed some obvious vacuum leaks. Tested the fuel system to make sure it was coming on briefly before starting. I noticed that it filled the rails, like it had leaked down while it has been sitting overnight. I did not have my fuel pressure gauge, so I could not measure pressure.

Cycle the fuel pump a few times to make sure I did not hear fuel rushing into the rails anymore and assumed that I had pressure now at the rail. I hit the switch and the engine fired up and ran. It settled in to a nice idle. I did not run it long since I don't have the belt (belt I got was about 2" too long) to run the water pump to keep it cool. Check out the short video...

Success!

That accomplishment made my whole day. I was starting to just say the hell with it and push it back outside and cover it up. Glad I gave it one more try.

I'll get a different belt on the way home today and see it I can get it to fit correctly. If I can, I will let it warm up and since it is still on stands, run the trans thru the gears to make sure that it turns the tires... If it all checks out, I will fix the truck wiring so that I can start it with the key and get this front boot on Old Blue this weekend.

I just might get to drive this thing again for the first time in 17 years...

Buddy, this is No Bueno.... This truck is not to be pushed outside & covered again. It has waited patiently. Take that proverbial step back if necessary & it will be there waiting for you next time you're in the shop. I'm glad you gave it another try!

[scoot_mcgrute]

Happy for ya bud, nice work!

[aggie91]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Buddy, this is No Bueno.... This truck is not to be pushed outside & covered again. It has waited patiently. Take that proverbial step back if necessary & it will be there waiting for you next time you're in the shop. I'm glad you gave it another try!

You're so right. I did not go back out to the shop until yesterday.

We headed to Houston (Spring, TX actually) on Friday for my daughter's Level 7 State Gymnastics Championship meet. So proud of her, she competed with a sore back and placed 4th in the All Around which qualified her for the Regionals in Albuquerque, NM next month.

[Low Elco]

Congrats, and hope you enjoy the drive.

[aggie91]

Originally Posted by scoot_mcgrute

Happy for ya bud, nice work!

Originally Posted by Low Elco

Congrats, and hope you enjoy the drive.

Thanks guys! No drive yet, but getting closer....

[aggie91]

Got out to the shop on Sunday. Made two trips to the parts store for a stupid belt...

Final I got a belt that fits to drive the alternator only set up. Ran the engine for a good bit yesterday and get the cooling system purged of air (I hope...). Dropped it in reverse (I thought) to see if the trans would turn the wheels. Wheels did turn for a bit, but in the forward direction then stopped. I figured the trans did not have enough fluid. Checked out the linkage too, the column is in park, but the trans is in neutral, I will fix that later. Got the trans filled to the proper level and it works in the forward gears. Really pleased with that since this trans was pulled out of the truck we used to build Korbin's Sunburn, that was not running and had been sitting for lord knows how many years before I got it. I pulled it out 7 years ago. I put a shift kit and new filter in it in 2010, but never did the front and rear seals and it sat untouched till just a few months ago. I put in new front/rear seals, pan and gasket and filled it with fluid. So, next test it to see if it will move the truck once I get the linkage fixed.

I need to work on the idle speed, seems really high, but I don't have a tach so I am not sure what it is at.

I am happy with the progress, but no pictures since it still looks the same...

[aggie91]

I still get out to the shop when I can. Baseball and Gymnastics keeps us hopping this time of the year.

I got the shift linkage adjusted, but needs some fine tuning as it is off on the column indicator. It does go into each gear now. I will let this go for now.

My ignition switch was bad, internal short in the run and start positions. Replaced switch and now the start function works correctly. Still not getting go voltage at the fuse panel on a couple of circuits, two of which are the ignition non-fused taps. I need one of those to provide my keep on power to the PCM.

Used my voltmeter and I have power going to the right places, but there is a huge voltage drop at the ignition on circuits on the fuse panel. So I pulled off the panel from the firewall. I think I see at least one of the problems:



That red wire is the battery feed to the fuse block, it is about 12" long back to the factory splice where the battery power enters under the dash and splits off to go to the fuse block, the ignition switch and the headlight switch. I will replace the 14ga section that goes feeds the fuse box.

The large pink wire in that picture goes to the flasher. It is a key on power wire. Its hidden behind the green and purple wires, but it is tapped into a female spade terminal that is attached to a buss bar that feeds 3 fuses. I believe the buss bar connection is corroded to a point that the fuses and male spade terminals on the front side only get about 4-5 volts. The flasher gets its full 12 volts. This picture is a bit clearer since I removed the red power wire...



Besides pulling the entire under dash harness and replacing the fuse box, does anyone have a method of cleaning these connections to get power restored?

I could go with this Dash Harness, but I am currently limited on the amount of money I have to spend on this project. I know this would be right thing to do and keep it looking factory under the dash.

[aggie91]

Well last night was baseball with Owen, double header that was schedule to start at 5pm. We got home after 10pm. Owen had a great set of games and came in as the relief pitcher in the second game when the starter got in trouble in the bottom of the last inning. Faced 6 batters, gave up a hit and a run, but finished with 3 swinging strikeouts to finish the game. They won both games.

Anyway, while trying to decide what to do and not spend a chunk of money, I remembered that when Sunburn got totaled, I pulled the entire wiring harness out of it. It was a universal 21 circuit mini wiring harness by EZ Wiring that I got off ebay. It worked good in Sunburn, but is really overkill for what I have in mind for this truck.

Here is what I found in the box when I pulled it out:


It's free, so that solves the big chunk of money problem. I will go thru it and pair it down to what I need and can use and just terminate the un-used wires at a terminal strip so it I need to use them later I can. At this point the plan is to replace the under dash harness only with this one. I will need to buy a few connectors and terminals to do what I am thinking, but that is far more affordable than a complete new factory fit harness or even another smaller universal harness.

I guess my next step is to pull the complete factory under dash harness out of Old Blue and see what its going to take to make this work.

Stay tuned...

[aggie91]

Got a little shop time this weekend. Its been nice weather the last couple of weekends, so we have been doing yard maintenance. I have hauled one FULL trailer (7'x18' x 4') load of brush and vines to the local compost site and have another load on the trailer again, and that's not all of what we cut down...

Anyway, I sat the rear end down on jack stands to simulate it at ride height. Installed the PHB and marked it to cut the tube to length. I will get that cut and weld the tube adapter in this week before heading to Katie's Gym Meet.

I pulled out the main harness from under the dash and mounted it to a board to work out the routing of the new harness. I used some long construction screw to mark the spots where the wires branch off in different places. I used some rubber coated line clamps to hold the harness in place on the board and labeled the connectors so I don't get to confused.


From there, since this is a universal harness and not a single block for all the fuses, flashers and horn relay, I made a mounting plate that will use the two stock fuse panel mounting holes and one other where the cover plate for the column mounts to the firewall.


I used this plate to mount the main fuse block. I got it mounted and started separating wires into groups. I have about 10 wires that I will not use right away (or maybe not at all), so I will mark each and install a ring terminal on the wires and land them on a terminal strip along the bottom or right edge of the plate I made. I did pull one wire completely out of the fuse block that will not every be used. I then started routing wires to each of their respectful connections. I still have quite a few to do, but this was a good stopping point. I was able to get some of the connectors new for the harness, but I will have to pull a few off the OE harness and reuse. I will put new terminals on the wires and only use the plastic connectors from the OE harness. There are a few wires I will need to lengthen to the ignition switch since this "new" harness was used in a previous build and those wires where cut to length for that application.


Not sure if I will get shop time this week, but if I do, it will be to continue on this harness till its done and ready to install in the cab.