Insurance woes after hit and run

[Robznob11]

Technically, your not supposed to but they say if you want to go out with your wife for the evening its ok (according to them), its kinda a deal of its hard to prove what you were doing. I really wouldn't want to park mine at walmart or the grocery store any how! As for me I wont be daily driving it but there are many who do. They will write a policy up to 6000 mi a year. I doubt you will find any providers to give you full coverage for our trucks as a daily driver that will actually pay what they are worth. Your gonna run into the same issue he has....what they say its worth. Only classic/collector insurance will give you agreed upon value!

[mrtoni]

So I drive it summertime only and do park in driveway. I'm on a corner and started parking it around the side to block my neighbors kids from parking outside my bedroom window because they come and go all hours slamming doors etc. I skimped on insurance I know that. I have 6 cars and was trying to save money.

[Tork?]

Preface: I'm a lawyer and I get paid by insurance companies to defend them in lawsuits no so dissimilar to this. Sorry if this is a bit longwinded but I see this ALL the time.

It appears Nevada's minimum property damage coverage is $10k. Because they offered you over $10k, it tells me that he had better than minimum coverage. Point is there's money on his policy to pay you more than what they're offering. So how do you get more money? The answer requires some explanation as to why they won't pay. First, keep in mind that insurance companies make money by paying out as little money as possible - i.e. by undervaluing total loss claims, by using replacement parts from Taiwan vs oem, or by cutting my legal fee bills each month. Second, they will only pay if they are forced to pay. At this point, nothing is obligating them to pay. Even if there was a police report saying he did it, it doesn't mean they have to pay you anything. This is a very important point to understand. In reality, we all know he did it. It's obvious right? But that's the point.

They're lowballing you because it's obvious they're insured is at fault and because it's obvious that in the end they will have to pay you. It's also obvious your Blazer is worth more than the 8k or the 10.5 they offered. C'mon it's freaking AllState OF COURSE they know. So they're lowballing you and dragging out the process to coerce you into agreeing to settlement on their terms. They want to lowball you so that you'll settle the claim and move on. All the while they got out for bottom dollar. Along the way they'll tell you things like "this is our policy" or call things "non-negotiable." Words/writings like this are meant to inflame your senses and make you feel like you have to take the amount they're offering; as if there was no other option. The sole purpose of this is to get you to take their lowball and save them money.

So how do you obligate them to pay? There is only one way --> through a lawsuit. The ONLY way to obligate another's insurance company to pay you is to have a judge tell them they have to. A lawsuit can end 1 of 2 ways: settlement agreement between you and them, or trial where a court orders them to pay. You may say you don't want a lawsuit or to deal with the court but, in reality, you're doing the same thing with them now by entering into settlement negotiations, by gathering your own evidence on value through an appraiser and through the body shop, etc. The reason they ignore all that is because, until you lawyer up and show a real threat of court action, they're not scared of you. They're not scared because there is no threat of becoming obligated to pay you.

Your situation is very similar to my dad's. An underinsured driver plowed into his daily driver Mazda CX5. It crumpled the a pillar, bent the frame rails, pushed the engine into the firewall, and blew 8 airbags inside. And the other driver's insurance company still wont pay and is doing everything they can to not total it. Why? Because the driver has a $25k property policy and if the CX5 is declared total loss (it is) they will be approaching policy limits. So because insurance knows they're approaching policy limits, and because they know that they will at some point become obligated to pay, they're doing everything they can right now to try to not total it and for them to accept their bs offer. they have comprehensive coverage, so they're making a claim with their own insurance company who is obligated to pays them. Then his insurance co sues the other insur co (called subrogation) to recoup the money paid to him.

Insurance companies can drag you around for a very long time. It sounds like you're lucky and have other transportation. So many others are forced into taking a lowball bc they need replacement transportation asap.

[Tork?]

I should add context that if you did file a lawsuit the other driver's ins co will go hire a lawyer like me to defend them. If I was presented with defending this, I would settle. There is really no argument for me (on behalf of the ins co) to make because you were parked in (I assume) a spot where parking is allowed. If you were both driving I would make an argument as to why it was your fault. But because you were parked it's a SLAM DUNK for you. It doesn't matter if he was drunk. It doesn't matter if he says "it wasnt me!" What matters is THAT vehicle was insured by THAT company and it collided with your parked car. Done.

[rockyrivermark]

Originally Posted by Tork?

Preface: I'm a lawyer and I get paid by insurance companies to defend them in lawsuits no so dissimilar to this. Sorry if this is a bit longwinded but I see this ALL the time.

It appears Nevada's minimum property damage coverage is $10k. Because they offered you over $10k, it tells me that he had better than minimum coverage. Point is there's money on his policy to pay you more than what they're offering. So how do you get more money? The answer requires some explanation as to why they won't pay. First, keep in mind that insurance companies make money by paying out as little money as possible - i.e. by undervaluing total loss claims, by using replacement parts from Taiwan vs oem, or by cutting my legal fee bills each month. Second, they will only pay if they are forced to pay. At this point, nothing is obligating them to pay. Even if there was a police report saying he did it, it doesn't mean they have to pay you anything. This is a very important point to understand. In reality, we all know he did it. It's obvious right? But that's the point.

They're lowballing you because it's obvious they're insured is at fault and because it's obvious that in the end they will have to pay you. It's also obvious your Blazer is worth more than the 8k or the 10.5 they offered. C'mon it's freaking AllState OF COURSE they know. So they're lowballing you and dragging out the process to coerce you into agreeing to settlement on their terms. They want to lowball you so that you'll settle the claim and move on. All the while they got out for bottom dollar. Along the way they'll tell you things like "this is our policy" or call things "non-negotiable." Words/writings like this are meant to inflame your senses and make you feel like you have to take the amount they're offering; as if there was no other option. The sole purpose of this is to get you to take their lowball and save them money.

So how do you obligate them to pay? There is only one way --> through a lawsuit. The ONLY way to obligate another's insurance company to pay you is to have a judge tell them they have to. A lawsuit can end 1 of 2 ways: settlement agreement between you and them, or trial where a court orders them to pay. You may say you don't want a lawsuit or to deal with the court but, in reality, you're doing the same thing with them now by entering into settlement negotiations, by gathering your own evidence on value through an appraiser and through the body shop, etc. The reason they ignore all that is because, until you lawyer up and show a real threat of court action, they're not scared of you. They're not scared because there is no threat of becoming obligated to pay you.

Your situation is very similar to my dad's. An underinsured driver plowed into his daily driver Mazda CX5. It crumpled the a pillar, bent the frame rails, pushed the engine into the firewall, and blew 8 airbags inside. And the other driver's insurance company still wont pay and is doing everything they can to not total it. Why? Because the driver has a $25k property policy and if the CX5 is declared total loss (it is) they will be approaching policy limits. So because insurance knows they're approaching policy limits, and because they know that they will at some point become obligated to pay, they're doing everything they can right now to try to not total it and for them to accept their bs offer. they have comprehensive coverage, so they're making a claim with their own insurance company who is obligated to pays them. Then his insurance co sues the other insur co (called subrogation) to recoup the money paid to him.

Insurance companies can drag you around for a very long time. It sounds like you're lucky and have other transportation. So many others are forced into taking a lowball bc they need replacement transportation asap.

That is fantastic information and advise. I hope I never have to refer to this thread myself but if so that is how I would handle it.
Would he be able to represent himself? I'm thinking the lawyer bill would offset any extra payout he would get anyway.
Curious.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Tork?]

Originally Posted by rockyrivermark

That is fantastic information and advise. I hope I never have to refer to this thread myself but if so that is how I would handle it.
Would he be able to represent himself? I'm thinking the lawyer bill would offset any extra payout he would get anyway.
Curious.
Posted via Mobile Device

Sure could definitely represent himself. When representing yourself aka "pro se" there are hurdles involved that can become time consuming for someone with an otherwise full time job. It also could hurt your case a bit only because you are not familiar with certain procedural rules, what is the best evidence, or even what constitutes "evidence" in a courtroom. For example, a police report is not considered evidence and you won't be able to use it even if it has a drawing about how it's their fault. An attorney will know the best course to take with each of these.

But cost is a real factor. Lawyers that do this kind of thing will either charge per hour, flat rate, or commission which is usually 1/4 or 1/3, plus costs. Being up front in a consultation and asking questions about payment and case value is key. I've seen it where the ins co offers $10k and they hire a lawyer they agree to pay one third, the lawyer get them $15k then takes 1/3 plus misc costs and the person walks with $9900!

[Boog]

Can he file an sr22 ? Or whatever you call it stating his license can be pulled if settlement is not made? Or does that not apply here since he does have overage but the claimant disputes the offer?

[Tork?]

Originally Posted by Boog

Can he file an sr22 ? Or whatever you call it stating his license can be pulled if settlement is not made? Or does that not apply here since he does have overage but the claimant disputes the offer?

Don't quote me on it but I believe sr22 is basically just a formality that a high risk driver needs in order to get or keep insurance and not a tool used to force an insurance to pay a third party.

Example: Driver has no insurance and gets into crash and loses license. One year later Driver gets license back and goes to purchase insurance. Insurance Co will require Driver to get sr22 to prove they have insurance. Insurance Co then files Driver's sr22 with State dmv to prove they are insured. If Driver let's his new policy lapse Insurance Co notifies dmv and dmv revokes his license.

Imo it's just a way for insurance companies to sell policies to high risk drivers and cover their own butts so they can effectively say he's not my responsibility! But I'm a cynic.

[Boog]

Well i obviously have the form wrong. Many years ago my truck was hit by an old man who claimed he had no insurance or anything. I found out later he told two others involved in the accident he would take care of them. Our family attorney friend filled out some form to send the state whereas that mans license would be pulled until debt was paid. In 10 days he paid my damage estimate and attorney fees. The old man thought my old truck was worthless. He was wrong. He was going to cheat this kid but my dad saw to it that didnt happen.
I'm glad you came into this topic. Thanks

[Tork?]

Originally Posted by Boog

Well i obviously have the form wrong. Many years ago my truck was hit by an old man who claimed he had no insurance or anything. I found out later he told two others involved in the accident he would take care of them. Our family attorney friend filled out some form to send the state whereas that mans license would be pulled until debt was paid. In 10 days he paid my damage estimate and attorney fees. The old man thought my old truck was worthless. He was wrong. He was going to cheat this kid but my dad saw to it that didnt happen.
I'm glad you came into this topic. Thanks

Thank you. And I see what you're getting at you're right in your scenario you leveraged the other driver with the threat of taking away his license. This is different because there's really nothing between mrtoni and the driver, only mrtoni and the driver's insurance company.

Originally Posted by mrtoni

Yep, preparing to get screwed. Adjuster report says comp sales are 7700 in Iowa and 7900 Missouri. Her estimate for repairs is 2400. If it hits about 4500 which it will it will be a total loss. They will pay 8200 for total loss minus salvage price est $200 by her and I can retain it.
She said in litigation there 3rd party neutral computer estimate cannot be challenged i.e. Value is un arguable.

To the op, that's complete BS their computer generated estimate is likely disputed in every case against them. Again another tactic to get you to settle early. What she means is "our internal policy is to not pay anything over what the computer model that is rigged against you tell us to." I did a little research for you and I think I found why they pulled those rust belt comps. Below is a section from the Nevada Administrative Code governing Insurance companies. I highlighted the passages that jump out at me.

Nevada Administrative Code 686A.680 
1.  When an insurance policy provides for the adjustment and settlement of first-party automobile total losses [B]on the basis of actual cash value or replacement with another of like kind and quality, one of the following methods must be applied:
(a)  The insurer (aka insurance company) MAY elect to offer a replacement automobile which is a specific comparison automobile available to the insured, with all applicable taxes, license fees and other fees incident to transfer of evidence of ownership of the automobile paid, at no cost other than any deductible provided in the policy. The insurer may prorate license fees and limit payment to the unused period of the fees. The offer and any rejection of the offer must be documented in the claim file. Translation: IC decides to get you a replacement Blazer plus all fees assoc with transferring into your name + license plate sticker the whole shebang of fees
(b)  The insurer MAY elect to make a cash settlement based upon the actual cost, less any deductible provided in the policy, to purchase a comparable automobile including all applicable taxes, license fees and other fees incident to transfer of evidence of ownership of a comparable automobile. Translation: IC decides to give you money based on how much it will cost you to go buy an equal replacement + all fees. The cost MUST be determined by an evaluation of:
(1) The cost of two or more comparable automobiles in the local market area which are currently available or were available within the most previous 90 days to consumers in the local market area; Replacement cost is determined by at least two Blazers for sale in your area in the last 3 months.
(2) If the cost cannot be determined pursuant to subparagraph (1), the cost of two or more comparable automobiles that are currently available or were available in the most previous 90 days to consumers in areas, both within and without this State, which are geographically proximate to the local market area; or If two Blazers weren't for sale in your are w/in the last 3 months they will look at the crappiest comparable Blazers they can find in the rust belt and use that to determine cost.
(3) If the cost cannot be determined pursuant to subparagraph (1) or (2), two or more quotations OBTAINED BY THE INSURER from two or more licensed dealers located within the local market area. If they can't find 2 comparables anywhere, they check dealer lots.
(c) When a first-party automobile total loss is settled on a basis which deviates from the methods described in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this subsection, the deviation must be supported by documents giving particulars of the condition of the automobile. Any deductions from the cost, including a deduction for salvage, must be measurable, discernible, itemized and specified as to the amount and must be appropriate in amount. The basis for the settlement must be fully explained to the first-party claimant. If the 2-car comparison method doesn't work they have to provide documentary proof laying out specifics as to how they calculated your $8k or $10.5 offer

Soooo it sounds like they have you in limbo with them at (b) and you at (c). They're attempting to use (b)(2) by comparing Blazers that are over 1200 miles away and conveniently in areas that lack inventories of clean pricier examples and avoiding comparables in California, Arizona, Colorado etc. which are arguably much more "geographically proximate to the local market area." With your third party appraiser you are square in the realm of (c) and your appraiser likely gave you documentation that led to and supports his determination.

I would think you could pay a lawyer $100 to send a letter to insurance company explaining your rights, their obligations under the law, and include your appraisers estimate. While you could write this letter yourself, imo it would carry more weight from an attorney because it gives the illusion that if they do not agree you are prepared to sue them and here's your evidence. Basically hiring a lawyer so that you dont have to hire a lawyer.

Got me all worked up!

[busterwivell]

I think Tork made it plain and simple (?) for us to understand.
So, my daughter was driving to work one morning in her 78 Malibu (around 1988 or so) and was hit head-on. She wasn't hurt, other than bruises from her seat belt, but the paramedics transported her to the hospital. The other driver was found at fault, ticketed, and the fun began. They paid the medical stuff right away. They told us they would pay for a rental car for her. Sure, she was 19. The rental companies wouldn't rent to her. I called the insurance company and they said she should drive my car (86 Monte CarloSS) and I should drive a rental. I told them that's why she had a car of her own to drive in the first place. My wife wound up driving her to work and back. Ins co said they would find a couple of comps for sale and determine a settlement amount. It was obvious her car was totalled. Weeks went by. I called and complained, told them wife is transporting her to work.......their response was, are you looking for gas money. Now they have me really mad. They said they couldn't find any comps, so they had no basis for a settlement. I told them my daughter and her boyfriend had found one on a dealer's lot that she liked (a 79 Malibu), and I told them the price. They objected, saying it was too much. I asked how they knew that when they couldn't find any? It became a shouting match. It ended with me giving them my attorney's name and number and I told them if the car wasn't paid for by 5 o'clock, they could deal with him from then on. The dealer called my daughter a couple of hours later and told her to come pick up her car.

[mrtoni]

So this is winding down. Final offer from them is $9600 and I retain the blazer. I've been offered $3000 for it from a coworker. I can part it for maybe $4500. Anyhow, I'm gonna get it home and decide if I want to get it back on the road or sell it. Spent the entire day at the dentist and then Allstate. Thanks for all the advice. Matt

[mrtoni]

Final thoughts and opinions wanted

I received $9600 and kept my blazer which they said was $1800 value. So I could've gotten $11400. They did not take my title but I think they enter it in a central dmv computer as total loss i.e. Salvage.

I've had multiple offers of $4000 as it sits with pending salvage title. So I'd clear $13600

If I part it I could get maybe 5-6000? Warn bumper with winch, top, seats, front clip, doors, rebuilt 402(no receipt), turbo 400, d44. I have strict hoa's and little room

Lastly, I can have it repaired. Estimate is $7200. This,is a new bedside (1200), junkyard 14 bolt (500) new springs (250) rear bumper tailgate repair etc. switch all parts i.e. Gears truss at $80 per hour.

If I repair it I'd be $2500 ahead unless estimate is off but potentially lose value if title is branded. I can shave some costs off estimate as I've found a bedside for less than half the price he quoted from lmc.

Leaning toward fixing it. I'd have to sell it for $11000 when repaired to make as much money back as just selling it now for,$4000.

Matt

[67ChevyRedneck]

Blazers are cool as hell, I'd take the money and do a full nice repaint on it and keep it, but I've had the same C10 for 20 years... I don't really sell stuff...

You're really the only one that can answer this, do you, or do you not, want a Blazer?

[B Myers]

Are you certain the vehicle's title status changes to salvage?

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by B Myers

Are you certain the vehicle's title status changes to salvage?

That's how it worked in California when my son's '70 Dart was totaled. The DMV also required new license plates and a brake and lamp inspection. I held the title, but the DMV replaced that title when we got the new plates.

[Boog]

Thats a tough decision to make. If you have no plans to make it into a real sharp truck and sell it then fix it and keep driving. Salvage title be damned. But $13600 will go a long way toward buying a real nice driver and not have to go through all of this. Your call.

[cypressbog]

I'd take the money and sell the blazer. $7K doesn't go very far in body shops anymore and you'll be waiting a long time for them to complete it.

Nothing kills a deal for me more than a salvage title.

[Fraud]

I'm a fan of keeping cars on the road where possible - even though these were relatively mass produced, if they all get disposed of they'll be too hard to find in the future...

That aside, If you don't actually need a car, or the cash, in the short term, it comes down to two questions...

1: Do you actually want to still own a Blazer?
2: Will it retain a clear title?

YY = fix it and keep it for sure
NN = Get rid of it in the most convenient way possible before you have to argue with the weird breed of human that voluntarily gets involved with enforcing HOA rules
YN = if you're cool with the limitations that a salvage/repaired title might bring totally fix it - its yours, you know the history, you could just be buying someone else's cluster if you used the equivalent cash to buy another one
NY = Try and find a buyer who will fix it and get it back on the road... You could repair yourself to then sell it but you should probably disclose the accident history when you do which will eat into the sale price, and there is bound to be something that costs more than intended on the repair, so I wouldn't necessarily bank on pocketing the extra cash

[mrtoni]

Alright, a healthy discussion. That's what I wanted to hear all y'all's opinions

[Boog]

Well Bud, there's no shortage of opinions round here let me tell ya.

[Blue GMC]

Honestly the salvage title scares me. Just from the insurance purposes most insurance companies won't let you have full coverage on it after that is on the title or if they do not enough coverage to make it worth it. At that point any impro cements is like flushing money down the toilet as with the last situation crap happens.

I would sell it outright or part it out keeping all the parts you want for another project. May take some time but they do come up and you are in a great area to find one of those rust free gems.

[rharris]

I wonder what the title would read if you registered it 'antique'? Here in PA, if I register a vehicle as antique I have to send in the old title and they issue a new one that is labeled antique. Maybe a way around the salvage title.

I personally would keep it and fix it to my desired level. These trucks are cool from show pieces down to the ones you can see the road below your feet. I have the latter in my front yard that gets Christmas lights.

Good Luck with your decision.

[rharris]

Also, I'm sure its been mentioned earlier in the thread - Hagerty will insure it for 'guaranteed value'. I have had one insured up to $25K. Pretty cheap - couple hundred bucks a year, but the daily driver part is out. Their website is pretty user friendly.

[mrtoni]

My replacement vehicle
Body and paint described as perfect
Interior redone
454 was built in 99 but never started its sat covered in garage since then
Might pull the 402 out of blazer of still toying with keeping the k5
Tires have been replaced too