58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering

[lexteak]

Thanks Guys.

Trying to get an idea of where to set the front cross-member. Took some measurements off my other truck and set up the front fender on my engine lift. Used an old tire/rim I had that is real close to the size of tire I plan on running.

I set the fender at the stock height and put the wheel at stock location. Them lowered it down to my ride height and it looks like I need 3/4 movement to the front.

Its tricky, If you change the rake a little bit it makes the measurement different. Seems as you drop the front and raise the back it opens up the rear of the fender and changes the look. I think my 3/4 is close. I still plan on just tacking everything until I get it all together, but I'm taking a shot at getting it right the first time.

A pic of my mock-up.

[Az. Hank]

That looks right on the money

[Kim57]

Nice fix on the frame.
Kim

[RockinKees]

Nice Fix!!

[lexteak]

Trying this week to get the boxing plates figured out. Kind of underestimated the "some assembly required" warnings.

The boxing plates position is critical for the exact position of the IFS front cross-member. They have to be at an exact width so the Flat Out member fits correctly. The frame rails have a lot going on right where they mount. The top of the c-channel tapers in and ends up to narrow where it needs to mount. The bottom is wider, so that is just a trimming process.

Its such a little bit to adjust on the top it seems impossible to patch. I think I need to cut a strip and put it underneath the top rail so it has some strength. Then I can attach the boxing plates to that new strip. In the morning I'll cut some strips and see if I can get it welded up.

My pics below show the straight edge where the frame needs to be. You can see the variance in the width. I tried to put the yellow ruler underneath so you can see how the gap changes.

[Nut Case]

Lex

Just a couple of thoughts, I would check to make sure that the top & bottom of the C-channel is equal to each other. Next check to see it the long vertical portion of the C-channel is not out of plumb. To adjust the vertical on the C-channel take a 4' 2X4, then make 2 2' smaller 2X4's, mark them at their center ( place them 1' up from the bottom of the 4' leg and 1' below the 4' leg on either side) then nail the bee jeepers out of these two 2X4's. Now you can put this tool over the C-channel and twist it any way that is necessary to get it vertical. You'll need a helper, tack some scrape between the frame rails to help them stay in proper alignment. then attack the boxing plates

I'm planning to fully box my frame before installing the IFS IRS and cross braces as necessary. Then mark where you can make holes in the boxing plates to reduce weight and give access to the C-channel, then take a 3" hole saw, kerf the boxing plate, then take a 1/8 drill bit and perforate the kerf with as many holes as you think is necessary thus, making the final drilling with the 3" hole saw easier and faster.

I'm shooting to get my build thread started before the year is out.

Just some ideas.

FYI your solution for the C-4 IRS is right on great work.

Keep on Keepin on. Nut Case

[lexteak]

Thanks NC. Great idea in the 2x4 alignment. I'm not sure whether to leave the boxing plates solid or hole them out. The access is nice when you can get inside.

I must have 200 holes in the frame. If I leave the sides solid I would want to fill most of those to keep the junk out. Maybe leave a couple on the bottom so the water can get out.

Going to head to the garage now. I'll post some pics sunday night if I make some meaningful progress.

Thanks for the ideas.

[Az. Hank]

Glad you posted that info about the rear half shafts angling a little forward. I was wondering the same thing and could not find that info. anywhere.

[Kim57]

Nice work.
Kim

[Az. Hank]

Ahh, got it thanks.

[Az. Hank]

Ahh, got it thanks.

[Kim57]

Looks good to me.
Kim

[lexteak]

A little more progress. got the boxing plates tacked in. still a lot of trimming and welding 2 do. test fit the front CM. Going to tack it in and put on some tin and see how it looks.

[Kim57]

Looks good.
Kim

[2tractors]

Wish I had seen your c4 build earlier as my front fo eng. is already in my 57swb. Also had the same thing with the frame rail width and used a set of digital calipers from outside of frame to inside of cross member. My cab is still on and using 17 inch rims so my wheel cut from plywood came out 5/8 forward of suggested 27 1/2 from front. Most of these old trucks have pushed or hit something and the front is never the same on both sides so i used measurements from points under the cab. Your pointers for the back are an eye opener! Keep posting.

[lexteak]

Thanks Guys. I'll get some tin on the next week or so and see how we line up.
I'll post some pics then. Sorry not responding to your posts individually, but I've been watching all of your builds closely. Very inspiring.

[Pzary3233]

Very intrigued by your build can't wait to see your next posts

[daveshilling]

Any updates??

[lexteak]

Sorry, I got a big project last winter and had to hold off on the build. One more little project I hope to finish this weekend and its back to the 58 project. I'll post again as soon as I get restarted. Thanks

[daveshilling]

Originally Posted by lexteak

Sorry, I got a big project last winter and had to hold off on the build. One more little project I hope to finish this weekend and its back to the 58 project. I'll post again as soon as I get restarted. Thanks

Even if you never finish this one, I'm glad the IRS details and the angles of those half-shafts are preserved in this thread. Don's paper instructions could definitely use some freshening up.

[lexteak]

Ok boys I'm back at it with a vengeance. Lots of stuff sidetracked me over the last two years. I retired since the last post and am currently under lock down here in Omaha, so its now or never. I just wasn't thrilled with how the modified frame was going. Attaching the new section was problematic boxing in frame was not very clean and filling the 200 plus holes was going to be frustrating. I decided to build frame from scratch. I picked up a super heavy table to use as platform, and am now starting to build out the to side frame rails. I used my old frame, attached the bed and cab rolled it out of garage and got all measurements I needed. I will be building the frame rails from 2x6 tubing and transferring Flat Out kit over to the new frame. Just some preliminary pictures to show you were I'm at on the restart.

[Rickysnickers]

Wow, impressive undertaking!

[dsraven]

frame dimensions are in here.
looks like fun to me.

https://www.trifive.com/55-59Assy.pdf

[lexteak]

Thanks I do have the assembly manual with the frame specs, very helpful. I got the rear frame rail sections tacked on and I mounted both rail assemblies to the table. I imagine it will be on and off a dozen times or so until final frame assemble. Going to have to give thought today about sequence of events. I think for today i'll get everything level and square and drill 4 locating holes for pins. That way I can take it off and on and keep original location.

[dsraven]

not sure what your overall plan is but a lot of guys seem to want big fatties on the rear and so have tubbed their box sides and some have made the frame narrower. if that is your plan it would be pretty easy to do at this point of the build (the narrower frame). I wonder sometimes because guys will cut the front end off and weld in a sub frame, then cut the rear end off and make their own C notch or narrow the frame back there. really, the only stock part of the frame is where the cab is bolted down. overall, that is a pretty easy thing to match up if you just built a new frame, like you are doing.
I am sure you have a plan going forward but don't forget about the little things like where will the exhaust route through, where will the shocks mount up etc. I have seen a few builds where they get to the little things and go "ahh, crap. no space for the exhaust".
do you have a plan for the rear suspension? leafs, 4 link with coils or bags, etc? just curious. looks like a nice set up you have there.
another thing to consider is possibly.
good plan on the pin idea. I was thinking possibly a dowel set up welded into the frame on 4 corners so that a tight fitting pin could be slid into the dowel in order to eliminate the possible slop from a regular bolt or pin. some tabs on the outside of the frame would keep the jig effect square. looks like you have it under control though. please post pics as you go, you have me hooked now, lol. I was going to do that for my 57. I did a frame swap instead, with a bunch of other stuff added just to keep me busy for about 12 years now, haha. seems like something always comes up to take my time and shop space. i am sure you know the feeling.