'64 C-10 Stalled Project Rescue

[joesscamaro]

I'm sure you can't wait to get it back from the exhaust shop. Any idea on the wheel/tire setup you're going to go with?

[Arne]

Originally Posted by joesscamaro

Any idea on the wheel/tire setup you're going to go with?

The current mags are 15x10 full reverse offset, with 20 year old 275/60R15 tires. The replacement tires are the same size, but will be on 15x8 standard offset steelies painted creamy white to match the roof color with chrome hub caps. The combination of 2" narrower and the offset change will tuck the tires in a full 2½" from where they are now.

[Arne]

I got the call that the exhaust is done at about 4:40 this afternoon. But since I live 30 minutes away from the shop, I won't be picking it up until tomorrow morning. Drat!

Next will be a visit to DMV for a VIN inspection, title transfer and classic/collector vehicle registration.

[Arne]

Picked it up this morning, in a pouring rain. The exhaust is good, nice sound but not too loud. Stainless tips exiting behind each rear wheel look proper.

As for the drive home, it was mostly all good. This is the first time I've driven the truck more than a time or two around the block. The odometer (which works!) registered 17 miles for the trip home. The single speed wipers work surprisingly well. While the heater fan is DOA, the heater itself delivered heat while driving home. The non-boosted brakes work well, albeit needing a lot of leg, so adding a booster will stay on my list. The A833 3+OD manual transmission is a pretty interesting choice. It looks and shifts like a car-type Muncie, but drives (and sounds) like a wide ratio truck transmission (which is what it is, to be fair). The overdrive 4th gear is pretty much useless below 45 or so, but should make for relaxed highway driving.

Of course, "mostly all good" is not the same as "all good". I fully expected to find areas that are lacking. But there are really only 3 of note. First, the fuel gauge (that I had tested early in the rewiring) doesn't do anything. Second, the 20 year-old tires have rubber that's about as hard as a bowling ball. Last, and most important, the steering is horrible—very heavy, and sloppy as all get out. Several inches of play at the wheel. The steering box must be totally worn out.

The tires and steering are already on the priority list - the new tires are here and are just waiting for me to get the new wheels. The power rack & pinion set up has been ordered, and should be here by the end of the year.

And I'll take another look at the fuel gauge either later today or tomorrow.

[cwcarpenter98]

If the sending unit tested to work out ok while out of the tank, I'd put money on your float being full of gas

[Arne]

It was in the tank when I tested it after the new wiring. I added a couple gallons of gas and it moved up as one would expect. But now it reads empty, even though I added 12 gallons of gas today. I went out and put the meter on it just now, it shows an open circuit. So I think it just decided that it was a Klingon and that perhaps today WAS a good day to die.

I've added a new sender to my wishlists...

[jkeating1]

Originally Posted by Arne

".....The power rack & pinion set up has been ordered, and should be here by the end of the year."

I saw in post 45 that you are going with a POL rack and pinion, but is it a kit that attaches to the factory crossmember?

[Arne]

I'm told it bolts to the frame on both sides. No drilling needed. Attaches to the factory steering box holes on the left and the idler arm holes on the right.

[Arne]

Made it out to DMV this afternoon, after waiting until the snow and ice from the last couple days melted off. After 2½ months the truck is now legal.



Also finally ordered the new wheels, electric choke kit, new fuel sender and a shift boot late today. All items are supposed to be in stock, so should arrive in the next week or so. I've got to start looking at off-white paint for the wheels soon.

[Arne]

I received the first box of the rack & pinion conversion parts over the weekend, and so while waiting for the rack and special bracket to ship I figured I'd start test fitting everything I had so far. Not very successful yet.

Part of the reason I ordered everything (rack kit, pump, hoses, pump pulley and pump bracket) from POL was with the thought that by ordering everything from a single supplier I'd have a better chance of it all working together as it should. That does not appear to be quite true in this case.

The first issue is that I received (ordered) the wrong outer tie rod ends. I will take at least partial responsibility for this one. When you order, you need to specify what spindles you have to get tie rod ends to match. The choices are listed as "Drum/OEM disc brake type" or "Disc brake 73-87 type". I bought my truck with the disc conversion already done, and mis-identified my spindles as being the later 73-87 units. I was wrong, and so I got the wrong tie rod ends.

That said, I find it odd that all of the outfits that sell these conversions ask the same question, almost word for word, but none of them give you any clue on how to tell which you have if you aren't sure. The answer turns out to be quite simple, the later 73-87 tie rod ends have 9/16" threads on the swivel stud and use a ⅞" hex nut. The early style is much smaller, 7/16" threads and 11/16" hex nut. If this difference had been noted in the product description when I ordered I would not have ordered/received the wrong parts.

(Side note for future replacement - the early style tie rod ends used with this rack conversion are part number ES415R, which appears to be the normal part for 71-72 C10. The later spindles use ES409R instead.)

The second issue is that despite ordering the pump and pulley together, the pulley and shaft aren't quite compatible. Both parts are for bolt-on pulley with key, but either the pulley hub is too thick or the shaft is not long enough as the Nylock shaft nut provided bottoms out before the nylon lock ring reaches the threads. Like the tie rod ends, this is not a fatal issue, but I'll need to find a locking nut that is shallower before I get this all installed.

The last issue is the most difficult to understand. The pump brackets do not appear to fit my early-80s 305 small block with long water pump. The pump bracket set is said to work on both short and long water pump engines. When I loosely bolt up the whole assembly, the pump is too close to the block. There is not enough clearance for the upper slotted bracket to fit, and the pulley grooves are off by a whole groove (inner groove on the crank and water pump lines up with the outer groove on the 2-groove pulley). Additionally, the upper slotted bracket is supposed to go to the lower bolt on the water pump, but in reality the water pump casting doesn't have clearance at either bolt to mount an additional bracket of this type.

Based on lining up pulley grooves, I'd need to space the pump and brackets about ⅝" away from the block. And I'd still need to do something different with the upper slotted bracket, as there is no where it will fit on the water pump.

It looks like all the other brackets I see offered besides Alan Grove's are essentially the same. Anyone else seen anything like this? Do the Alan Grove brackets space the pump farther away from the engine?

[jchrisman]

Is it possible to flip the pulley over and install it the other way on the power steering pump? Looks like that would push the grooves further out.

[Arne]

Originally Posted by jchrisman

Is it possible to flip the pulley over and install it the other way on the power steering pump? Looks like that would push the grooves further out.

It is possible, but then none of the grooves line up.

I've got another thread on the pump mount part going in the General Engine & Drivetrain forum, and there has been a promising looking tip there on the mounting. Will try it later today. As for the pulley, I'm not too concerned about which groove I use, as long as it lines up with the inner groove on the crank pulley.

[Arne]

I'm going to return the current steering pump brackets for refund, and will order a set from Alan Grove tomorrow. Got confirmation that the rack mounting brackets and rack itself have a 2-4 week lead time, so it is still a couple of weeks out.

On a happier note (not that the above is all that bad), the new wheels arrived today, and are good. Will start looking for paint to match the creamy-white on the roof tomorrow. Should be able to get them painted and the new tires mounted by the end of next week.

[The Rocknrod]

Is there any reason your going with a long water pump?

[justa dumb hick]

Admittedly, I do not spend as much time on this site as I probably should... but then again, time-management is not one of my strong points. Forgive this Dumb Hick for asking details of a subject that has probably already been discussed, but could you explain the "A-833 OD" truck transmission? Or aim me toward the area where has been described in more detail?

Nice rescue by the way. Thank you for sharing.

[Arne]

Originally Posted by The Rocknrod

Is there any reason your going with a long water pump?

It's already there and working fine, and the alternator and all pulleys are already set up for it. Don't see any reason to ditch it when proper fitting parts are available for it.

Originally Posted by justa dumb hick

Forgive this Dumb Hick for asking details of a subject that has probably already been discussed, but could you explain the "A-833 OD" truck transmission?

The 833 was designed and built by New Process. It was originally designed as a HD car 4 speed for use behind Chrysler Hemis. For that use it had a heavy cast iron case with a typical 1:1 4th gear.

It was resurrected for GM light truck use in the early '80s. This version had a lighter aluminum case, and the shift linkages were reconfigured to make 3rd gear the direct 1:1, and 4th gear was an 0.75:1 overdrive. The OD version with the aluminum case was not good for high torque applications, GM only fitted it to smaller engines. I read somewhere that the 305 small block was the most powerful engine they put it behind.

It was apparently not a popular choice when new, and is rarely seen now. But it should make a nice option for a tame cruising truck like mine. It cruises at less than 2000 RPM at 55-60 MPH.

[Arne]

New Grove steering pump brackets are ordered, will probably be here long before the steering rack itself arrives.

The first two wheels are painted, and the paint match is very good. Will prep and paint the last 2 tomorrow, let it all cure over the weekend, then look into getting the new tires mounted and balanced next week.

More parts arrived today: fuel gauge sender; electric choke kit; and shift boot. I'm sure I'll have all this done by the end of the weekend at the latest.

[Arne]

Got the other 2 wheels painted today, I'm going to let the paint cure for several days before taking them down to have the tires mounted. But will definitely get that done next week. I'm really looking forward to getting the over-deep current wheels off the truck.

Installed the shift boot and fuel sender today as well. The boot is great, fits just as I'd hoped. And the fuel gauge now tells me I have just over half a tank, which is about what I expected.

Will pull the carb off to start on the choke conversion probably over the weekend, if other non-truck projects don't take up too much of my time. Definitely no later than Monday...

[Arne]

One thing leads to another. Always.

I got the carb converted to electric choke, and it passed my bench test. So I put it back on the engine and tried to start it up for final adjustment.

No start. I knew I was going to have to crank it a while to pump fuel back into the carb. Turned the key, the starter cranked nicely for a few seconds, then rapidly slowed down like the battery was flat. But it wasn't—volt meter showed 12.6v.

Hooked up the jumper cables to my Tacoma just to make sure, and still mostly nothing, even though the meter showed 13.7v at the battery.

I've caught hints of this in the past. It cranks great if the starter is cold, for a few seconds. But if the engine doesn't catch quickly, it starts to slow down noticeably. The engine normally starts easy enough that it hasn't been an issue. If the float bowl wasn't empty today, it probably would have fired right up this time also. But cranking it long enough the fill the bowl just showed how quickly the starter performance degrades.

I will pick up a replacement starter tomorrow morning, and then finish final adjustment of the new choke.

The new tires get mounted on the new wheels Wednesday morning, and I will swap them on to the truck later that afternoon.

[350TacoZilla]

Sucks about starter but hopefully ends up being a fairly painless job to swap. I can't wait to see it with the new shoes bolted up!

[Arne]

Originally Posted by 350TacoZilla

Sucks about starter but hopefully ends up being a fairly painless job to swap.

The starter on a this vintage engine/transmission pair is super easy. The hardest part is getting under a lowered truck like this one. I pulled the bad one out (10 minutes) and took it with me to verify the new one was right, and to leave with them as a core. Probably only another 10 to maybe 15 minutes to install the new one. Which works beautifully. Cranks fast and solid. Pumped fuel up to the carb, and then it fired right up.

The new electric choke has taken a little more fiddling to get dialed in than I expected, which takes time as I have to let it get cold again before the next test. But it's either good or really close now.

Originally Posted by 350TacoZilla

I can't wait to see it with the new shoes bolted up!

That went mostly smooth as well. Except that while I had bolted one of the wheels on the front (to check for caliper clearance), I had not test fitted one on the back. And the stamped vent slots just barely hit the edge of the drums before they would bolt up flush. So I had to run down to my FLAPS and pick up a pair of 5/16" wheel spacers. Problem solved.

And so I finally have proper fitting wheels on my truck. They no longer poke out of the fenders. YAY! And I really like the look. Here's a few initial pics.

[Arne]

The new steering pump brackets from Alan Grove arrived today, but I'm probably not going the get around to test fitting them until Friday.

Here's a couple more pictures with the new wheels.

[cwcarpenter98]

Looks great with the new wheels!

[Arne]

Originally Posted by cwcarpenter98

Looks great with the new wheels!

Thanks! They are exactly the look I was aiming for. Still big tires with an old school tall sidewall, but tucked inside the fender on OE-looking wheels.

[Arne]

I found time to test fit the new steering pump brackets, and these (from Alan Grove) are nice, and fit properly. Will prep and paint them over the next few days, then I'll install the pump (w/o belt) while I continue to wait for the steering rack to arrive.