69 C10 Prerunner project

[Coronadj]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

I would avoid that company & all of it's alter egos (Ratical, aka AIM, aka Chassis Tech, aka AirBaggit.com, & now Fire Bird Industrial). Ever wonder why a company requires so many name changes over the years??

I would do a kit like this for the front....

http://www.roughcountry.com/gm-suspe...kit-231n2.html

Lift spindles will help keep steering geometry in check & shouldn't require a cobbled spring + spacer or super stout tall spring to raise the truck. These kits are adaptable w/some parts swapping which can be done w/used parts that help keep within a budget.

To adapt 88-up spindles, you need....


C20 lower a-arms (the 88-98 1/2 ton lower BJ fits the 6X-87 C20 lower arms).
88-98 upper BJ to the factory arms (bolt-in swap).
88-98 brakes (rotors, calipers, hoses).

Then it's just a matter of adapting the tie-rods to the spindles. Read more about it here....


http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=447061

For the rear, some bolt-on spring spacers could be utilized/fabbed. This (the spacer method) would be acceptable in a rear coil suspension application since the spring physically bolts in @ each end (vs a spacer & spring just getting stacked on top of each other in the front).

My buddys son want's a 'pre-runner' looking 68. This was my suggested approach to him as it should maintain a fairly stock ride quality.

Thanks man for the help yeah I might just do that and for the rear put coil spacers.

[C.20]

I know this has nothing to do with the build but what size rim and tires was on it when you bought need some new tires and yours pop out

[Coronadj]

Originally Posted by C.20

I know this has nothing to do with the build but what size rim and tires was on it when you bought need some new tires and yours pop out

Mmmm tell you the truck I don't know what size tire they are but next time I go to my dads yard where my truck park at I look at the tires and rim. Then I tell what size they are. But yeah I know I need new tires but I don't drive it right so not in a hurry yet to put new tires on, first want to lift it.

[C.20]

Yeh burnouts dont help to much with my new motor its kind of fun to do but at the same time bad

[Coronadj]

hey guys what do you guys think about this lift for the front?

http://www.roughcountry.com/gm-suspe...it-230-20.html

and just use a balljoint spacer?

[72mike]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

I would avoid that company & all of it's alter egos (Ratical, aka AIM, aka Chassis Tech, aka AirBaggit.com, & now Fire Bird Industrial). Ever wonder why a company requires so many name changes over the years??

I would do a kit like this for the front....

http://www.roughcountry.com/gm-suspe...kit-231n2.html

Lift spindles will help keep steering geometry in check & shouldn't require a cobbled spring + spacer or super stout tall spring to raise the truck. These kits are adaptable w/some parts swapping which can be done w/used parts that help keep within a budget.

To adapt 88-up spindles, you need....
C20 lower a-arms (the 88-98 1/2 ton lower BJ fits the 6X-87 C20 lower arms).
88-98 upper BJ to the factory arms (bolt-in swap).
88-98 brakes (rotors, calipers, hoses).

Then it's just a matter of adapting the tie-rods to the spindles. Read more about it here....

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=447061

For the rear, some bolt-on spring spacers could be utilized/fabbed. This (the spacer method) would be acceptable in a rear coil suspension application since the spring physically bolts in @ each end (vs a spacer & spring just getting stacked on top of each other in the front).

My buddys son want's a 'pre-runner' looking 68. This was my suggested approach to him as it should maintain a fairly stock ride quality.

I completely agree with you on this, but at the time it was an easier option.
The company does suck and I had issues getting the correct parts a few time. Not to mention the wrong powder coating colors.

If I would do it over I might go with the spindle instead.
Good luck with whatever direction you go.

[C10Sam]

Coronadj, I'm doing the same thing right now... a cost effective lift to give my '70 c10 lwb a "k10 stance" to run BFG A/T 32x11.50 on 15 inch rallies, without breaking the bank or making the truck unsafe or creating a lot of other potential issues with steering, suspension geometry, etc. After researching and asking questions without getting much information, I made a judgement call and went with this:

1. custom made coils by Coil Specialties in KS: fronts are spec'd out to a 3" increase in trim height using the OE coils specs. I also went with a 15% increase in spring rate to reduce body roll and improve handling. In the rear, I went with 0.75" increase over factory trim height with a 15% increase in spring rate. This should give the truck a level or slightly nose-up stance. These guys have engineers that use an 11 variable formula based on the specs of the OE coil and the desires finished trim height (i.e. height from the ground to the center of the wheel well opening) to engineer the springs.

2. I kept my stock control arms (both upper and lower) but, to regain the droop lost from the lift coils, I removed the factory upper ball joints (they must be ground off and it's a pain in the butt) and then installed new BJs to the underside of the UCA, as opposed to on the top of the UCA as it is from the factory. I also used a 1-inch spacer ball joint spacer from airbagit (they were the only manufacturer I could find... made of aluminum and bolted right up...same hole pattern and bolt size as OE). I had to shave about 5/8" off of the cross member "lip" to allow the flipped BJ/BJ spacer assembly to clear the crossmember to allow for full droop. I also removed the factory upper bump stops that are approx 1 11/16" tall and replaced with a low profile bump stop (11/16" tall) from energy suspension. So, with these modifications you regain approx 2 1/2" of droop. The ball joint spacers 'should' also make it easy to realign the front end.

3. For shocks, I went with KYB Excel-G gas shocks which are a little longer than stock shocks and, based on my measurements, will compensate for the taller coils and give me adequate travel through the full range of the front and rear suspension. These should also help with handling.

That's it! Total cost of the "lift" will end up being about $500 or so. I may also add a 1" body lift but that's yet to be determined... really depends on the finished product with the suspension lift.

All of that being said, I have NOT finished the install which means I cannot [yet] tell you if this gives me the desired ride height and stance, or if the front end can be easily realigned. I have the rears in and the front passenger side installed and, from what I can see by pulling some preliminary measurements, it looks like it may work! I will probably finish the front-driver's side install tonight and hopefully have the 32's mounted tomorrow. Once I'm done, I'll let you know how it worked out. I read where one guy did this and was very pleased with the results (no problems after 15 years, he said) and then one guy who told me "don't do it!" but then wouldn't give me any specific reason why I shouldn't. So, it's a little bit of a gamble but I'm cautiously optimistic.

I started a thread a couple of weeks ago, asking these very questions but didn't get any usable information... only criticism (haha), so I will be posting this and additional info there with before and after pictures so that other guys wanting to do this in the future will have a plan. That is, if it works!

Good luck!

[C10Sam]

sorry, one correction: I'm in about $500 on hardware...shocks were another $175. So, call it $700 and a good solid weekend to have it installed.

[Coronadj]

Originally Posted by C10Sam

sorry, one correction: I'm in about $500 on hardware...shocks were another $175. So, call it $700 and a good solid weekend to have it installed.

Thank for all the info! I think I'm just gonna do what you did but the only problem is that for the coils I would know where to get any made at. So I think for the front I will use the moog 1 ton front coils you think that would work? Or on rough country website they have lifted coil for 88-98 c1500 its a 2 inch lifted coil and it comes with shocks. But what do you think I should do?

[Coronadj]

Originally Posted by C10Sam

sorry, one correction: I'm in about $500 on hardware...shocks were another $175. So, call it $700 and a good solid weekend to have it installed.

One more thing do you have forum on your truck? So I can check it out.

[no1udknow]

You could always go to a leaf setup in the rear. Maybe off a newertruck like a 73-87.

[C10Sam]

Get those same guys I used to make your calls for you... I don't live in KS; did it all by phone and cost around $50 to ship. It was worth it, in my opinion, to have custom tailored springs that are made especially for the application rather than using big block springs or 1 ton springs or after market "lift" springs made for a later model truck because these could cause the truck to ride super rough or, even worse, create some real problems with your suspension that lead to component failure.

I finished installing today and it's looking promising. I still need to have the 32s mounted (right now it has 31x10.50s on back and 235s on front) and the front end realigned but from what I'm seeing the truck looks like it has gained the height increase it should have in both front and back and the tie rods, ball joints, etc don't appear to be at too extreme of angles. That said, I can't call it a success yet; I'll let you know once I take it to the tire shop.

The only pictures of my truck on the forum were a couple that I posted in a thread a couple of weeks ago. Search for posts that I've made (I think I've only made two and their both related to what we're discussing), and you'll find the "before" pictures. I'll post some after pictures once new tires go on.

[Coronadj]

Originally Posted by C10Sam

Get those same guys I used to make your calls for you... I don't live in KS; did it all by phone and cost around $50 to ship. It was worth it, in my opinion, to have custom tailored springs that are made especially for the application rather than using big block springs or 1 ton springs or after market "lift" springs made for a later model truck because these could cause the truck to ride super rough or, even worse, create some real problems with your suspension that lead to component failure.

I finished installing today and it's looking promising. I still need to have the 32s mounted (right now it has 31x10.50s on back and 235s on front) and the front end realigned but from what I'm seeing the truck looks like it has gained the height increase it should have in both front and back and the tie rods, ball joints, etc don't appear to be at too extreme of angles. That said, I can't call it a success yet; I'll let you know once I take it to the tire shop.



The only pictures of my truck on the forum were a couple that I posted in a thread a couple of weeks ago. Search for posts that I've made (I think I've only made two and their both related to what we're discussing), and you'll find the "before" pictures. I'll post some after pictures once new tires go on.

Thanks man!! Im just gonna do it like you did thanks for all the info and can you post there website because I'm having trouble finding it on the web.

[C10Sam]

www.coilsprings.com

I didn't get a chance to mount the new tires yet so still unsure on how well it will turn out. So you may want to hold off until I finish up, just to be sure this is a good option. That said, mine is a C10 and I think you said yours is a C20...is that right? I know that on a C10 you generally have about 2" of rake but you may want to do some research to see if C20s had more (I would think so). You may be able to save some $$ by only getting front springs at, say, 2.5 to 3" over OE spec and then just use stock 3/4 ton coils in the rear. Then if the rear is too low, use a coil spacer to achieve the right height. First things, first though... let me confirm that everything worked out as it should (fingers crossed).

[Coronadj]

Originally Posted by C10Sam

www.coilsprings.com

I didn't get a chance to mount the new tires yet so still unsure on how well it will turn out. So you may want to hold off until I finish up, just to be sure this is a good option. That said, mine is a C10 and I think you said yours is a C20...is that right? I know that on a C10 you generally have about 2" of rake but you may want to do some research to see if C20s had more (I would think so). You may be able to save some $$ by only getting front springs at, say, 2.5 to 3" over OE spec and then just use stock 3/4 ton coils in the rear. Then if the rear is too low, use a coil spacer to achieve the right height. First things, first though... let me confirm that everything worked out as it should (fingers crossed).

Ok I will wait until your done with your truck and no my truck is a c10 but I posted a c20 on my forum saying that is how I want my truck to look like.

[Coronadj]

[QUOTE=C10Sam;7027516]www.coilsprings.com



Hey man I know its been a while but I was wondering how did your truck come out?

[Coronadj]

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/member.php?u=150579

[C10Sam]

Hey man, sorry; haven't forgotten about posting...just haven't finished. Had a kid a couple of months ago so really haven't have a chance to work on the truck much. I finished installing the suspensions components and now I'm halfway through a 1" body lift. Still haven't had the front end realigned so can't comment on that yet but the custom springs seem to have been spec'd out correctly... the truck sits slightly nose up and has approx 36.25 inch trim height in the front and 35.875 in the rear with 32x11.50 bfg A/T's on 15x8 steel wheels. (these "32's" are really only about 30.5 inches tall so if I had it to do again, I might have gone with a 33...). It 'appears' that, with the upper BJ flip, BJ spacer and low profile upper bump stops, I will have a decent amount of droop (enough for highway use, which is all I'll do with my truck). I wanted a little more lift than the taller springs gave me so decided to go ahead and put the 1" body lift on while I was at it. New body mounts came in this week (originals were shot), so I'm hoping to finish up in the next week or two, when I have some free time (if I have some free time!). Here's how the truck was sitting after the suspension mods, but before the 1 inch body lift. I'll post a few pics of the finished product when I wrap it up. So, a befor and after shot:

[Coronadj]

Originally Posted by C10Sam

Hey man, sorry; haven't forgotten about posting...just haven't finished. Had a kid a couple of months ago so really haven't have a chance to work on the truck much. I finished installing the suspensions components and now I'm halfway through a 1" body lift. Still haven't had the front end realigned so can't comment on that yet but the custom springs seem to have been spec'd out correctly... the truck sits slightly nose up and has approx 36.25 inch trim height in the front and 35.875 in the rear with 32x11.50 bfg A/T's on 15x8 steel wheels. (these "32's" are really only about 30.5 inches tall so if I had it to do again, I might have gone with a 33...). It 'appears' that, with the upper BJ flip, BJ spacer and low profile upper bump stops, I will have a decent amount of droop (enough for highway use, which is all I'll do with my truck). I wanted a little more lift than the taller springs gave me so decided to go ahead and put the 1" body lift on while I was at it. New body mounts came in this week (originals were shot), so I'm hoping to finish up in the next week or two, when I have some free time (if I have some free time!). Here's how the truck was sitting after the suspension mods, but before the 1 inch body lift. I'll post a few pics of the finished product when I wrap it up. So, a befor and after shot:

Man that looks good!! I just installed my rear coil spacers but I still think Im gonna get the 3/4 ton rear coils. But i need to figure out what I'm going to do about the front.

whats body lift did you get for your truck? I've been looking for a 1 inch body lift but I can only find 2 or 3 inch body lift.

[C10Sam]

Provided my truck will come back into alignment, I think the best option [ON A BUDGET] for these trucks is what I'm doing. Especially if you're just trying to achieve a 4wd stance/height but plan on keeping it on the asphalt, like me (I have a 4wd if I need it!). I wouldn't waste my time/money on 3/4 ton springs or 1 ton springs or HD springs on a 'guess' that it might give you the height you want in both the front and the back. And I'm sure you know or others have mentioned to you that putting those heavy springs on your truck will really stiffen the ride. You could spend a couple hundred bucks on a 3/4 or 1 ton springs or you could spend $450 on custom springs that you know are what you want. I haven't had it realigned but I did take it for a cruise after the suspension mods... seemed to handle pretty good (and felt like I was much higher off the ground than before!).

As for the body lift... just like the suspension, I'm sort of piecing it together because a kit doesn't exist. I bought 1x2 inch (for the bed) and 1x3 inch spacers (for body and radiator support) online, longer bolts locally, and will modify bumper brackets as needed. Like I mentioned, I'm also taking the opportunity to also replace the cab and radiator bushings. From what I have read, I shouldn't have to make any changes to steering linkage, tranny linkage, etc with it being only a one inch lift (fingers crossed!) but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

[justcuz]

When we built prerunners in the 70's we used 1 ton crew cab big block dually front springs. The Chevy part number at the time was 328101. That should tell you how many pairs of those springs we bought if I can still remember that number 40 years later.
You will get a nice stance with those front springs and some 3/4 ton rears from the wrecking yard.
That spring combo will allow you to run 32" tires on your truck.
The 4.11 Posi rear end and 4 spd truck trans will allow you to drive lots of places with that little truck.
That's an old US Forest Service pickup, if it came out of the Angeles National Forest I probably drove that truck a time or two.
I worked as an Oak Frove Hotshot in the early 70's, we had a truck like that one, a shortbed Dodge and a 67 Suburban at Oak Grove.
Personally I would avoid lift spindles and concentrate on a 6 lug disc brake kit for the front end. Many lift spindles are made in China and are machined poorly leading to difficult alignment issues and accelerated tire wear.
Besides if you really look at the newer prerunners all the cool kids keep them relatively low. They handle better that way due to the lower center of gravity.

[Coronadj]

Originally Posted by justcuz

When we built prerunners in the 70's we used 1 ton crew cab big block dually front springs. The Chevy part number at the time was 328101. That should tell you how many pairs of those springs we bought if I can still remember that number 40 years later.
You will get a nice stance with those front springs and some 3/4 ton rears from the wrecking yard.
That spring combo will allow you to run 32" tires on your truck.
The 4.11 Posi rear end and 4 spd truck trans will allow you to drive lots of places with that little truck.
That's an old US Forest Service pickup, if it came out of the Angeles National Forest I probably drove that truck a time or two.
I worked as an Oak Frove Hotshot in the early 70's, we had a truck like that one, a shortbed Dodge and a 67 Suburban at Oak Grove.
Personally I would avoid lift spindles and concentrate on a 6 lug disc brake kit for the front end. Many lift spindles are made in China and are machined poorly leading to difficult alignment issues and accelerated tire wear.
Besides if you really look at the newer prerunners all the cool kids keep them relatively low. They handle better that way due to the lower center of gravity.

Man that would be crazy if you really driven my truck back in the day! thanks for all the info. yeah I found a pair of 1970 c30 springs you think I should get them?

[Ugly71C20]

If you are still looking for a 1" body lift check out offroad design. They dont have a kit specific for a c10 but they sell the pucks and you can just source your own bolts. http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/oneinchlift.htm

They have a poly body mount kit too I believe. That will bring it up a bit compared to sagging stock rubbers.

I am running poly body mounts, CPP arms and Mogg C30 springs on my c20. All that clears some 245/75R16s (29") easy. The one ton springs ride pretty nice too even with my small block

[Coronadj]

Originally Posted by Ugly71C20

If you are still looking for a 1" body lift check out offroad design. They dont have a kit specific for a c10 but they sell the pucks and you can just source your own bolts. http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/oneinchlift.htm

They have a poly body mount kit too I believe. That will bring it up a bit compared to sagging stock rubbers.

I am running poly body mounts, CPP arms and Mogg C30 springs on my c20. All that clears some 245/75R16s (29") easy. The one ton springs ride pretty nice too even with my small block

thanks for the info! but the CPP arms you got are they tubular arms?

[Coronadj]

Do you guys think getting a pair of junk yard c30 coils are a bad idea they seem to be in great shape. Im asking because my budget is kind of low and saving money is on top of my list lol.