shaking all over the place?

[[JP]]

Ok I'll take some photos later when I get home and try not to use the flash.
the piece of metal is flat now as I flattened it to try show the size.
thanks Jimmy, appreciate your input on this.

[[JP]]

Hi Jimmy,

as promised, here's some photos I've just taken:

[PGSigns]

May have started life as the thrust washer from a spider gear. Wont know till you pull the bolt and the cross pin out. Then you will be able to see what is missing and what the end of the axle looks like. That piece went through the ring and pinion from the looks of it.
Jimmy

[[JP]]

Hi again.. well, I dont know if its good news or bad news.

Good news is that none of the gears look damaged inside, no bits missing and no chunks of metal in the oil - guess by only driving 300 yards after the shake I might have not damaged anything?

bad news is, the bolt holding the cross pin.. is broken!!
Do you think that might be the reason for the shake? also looks like some play on the spider gear on the top...

I've done a video:

C10 axle spider gears play - YouTube

and taken some photos....




thanks!
JP

[dracko]

Glad to see you found the issue! Wish I could chime in on the spider gear play but I don't know the allowable movement. Looks like a thrust washer chewed up. Prob gonna need a rebuild.

You can buy DVD copies of the factory service manual on eBay for pretty cheap.

[PGSigns]

What you found was the thrust washer for the loose spider gear. Also looks like the oil was nice and dirty brown. That is what it looks like after 50 years in the rear. First thing to do is see if the rest of the bolt will come out with a good magnet. If the pin sheared the bolt off on both sides you may be able to take a drift punch 12 to 15 mm in diameter and see if the pin will move. Hit it from the opposite end the bolt was in.
Jimmy

[[JP]]

Originally Posted by dracko

Glad to see you found the issue! Wish I could chime in on the spider gear play but I don't know the allowable movement. Looks like a thrust washer chewed up. Prob gonna need a rebuild.

You can buy DVD copies of the factory service manual on eBay for pretty cheap.

I have looked for the DVD recently and couldnt find it. I do remember a few months back coming across it on ebay, but havent managed to find one again.

Originally Posted by PGSigns

What you found was the thrust washer for the loose spider gear. Also looks like the oil was nice and dirty brown. That is what it looks like after 50 years in the rear. First thing to do is see if the rest of the bolt will come out with a good magnet. If the pin sheared the bolt off on both sides you may be able to take a drift punch 12 to 15 mm in diameter and see if the pin will move. Hit it from the opposite end the bolt was in.
Jimmy

Hi, tried doing that, the broken bolt is not moving... I can hold the pin and spin it, but if I try and tap it out it wont go. So I'm guessing there's some thread left in the bolt that snapped or else the pin would 'push' the remaining of the bolt out the way...

anyway, have called a shop who rebuilds axles and waiting for a quote to get this repaired.
I think it will be out of my expertise. I could probably managed to get that bolt out etc... but rebuilding the spiders gears with the correct shims etc.etc.. think I'd be taking more than I can chew.

[chevy_mike]

If I remember correctly, the center pin flat areas (top and bottom) should be parallel to the side spider gears and not rotated like it is. It definitely looks like the center pin has rotated looking at the marks where the axles have rubbed it.

See if you can rotate the center pin so the flats line up and try using a punch and see if it will move out at all. If not, you might have to cut the center pin out and replace the whole carrier. I had this happen on one rear end I had. It sucked!

[[JP]]

Originally Posted by chevy_mike

If I remember correctly, the center pin flat areas (top and bottom) should be parallel to the side spider gears and not rotated like it is. It definitely looks like the center pin has rotated looking at the marks where the axles have rubbed it.

See if you can rotate the center pin so the flats line up and try using a punch and see if it will move out at all. If not, you might have to cut the center pin out and replace the whole carrier. I had this happen on one rear end I had. It sucked!

Yeh, tried doing that, I spun the pin around and lined the areas with the bolt, thinking ' if i hit the pin here it will push the remaining bolt out'
but it didnt as there's still threads left in there I think

cut the center pin out! damn that's a bit extreme! I was thinking of buying the bolt extractor kit for 36 dollars...
all depends on how much this shop will charge me to rebuild the whole axle... if its reasonable I'll let them deal with it. If not I'll get the extractor kit, get the bolt out and then see how it goes.

if this happened to you before did you get the same symptons as me? a really bad shake?
because Im doing this and not sure if this is the cause. I did check prop, UJs etc and there's no play anywhere expect here in the rear axle

[PGSigns]

The shake could have been the shim going through the gears. A bolt extractor kit wont help you. If you can turn the pin turn it so the flats face out not to the side gears. Rotate the carrier and hit the pin hard with a good size hammer and a drift pin and see if it starts to move. What is left in there is the pin part of the retaining bolt and it is in at least a couple of pieces.
Jimmy

[chevy_mike]

If you can spin the pin, then there is nothing left of the retaining bolt/pin holding it. Most likely it created a groove on the center pin, where it rides on the carrier. Like Jimmy said as well, get a large drift and a big hammer and give the center pin a good wack.

The retaining bolt does not have a hole on the other side of the carrier, so you cannot press that though and out.

As for the one I had an issue with, I bought it off a junk truck and was trying to disassemble it and found the center pin retaining bolt broke and had to cut the center pin out. Ends up the whole rear end was junk and nothing was usable.

[60chevyjim]

when your trying to knock the large center pin out
turn the carrier so the side where the bolt went in at , is facing you .
it may help , or it may not , just an idea.

[[JP]]

Thanks for the tips guys.
I'll try that again. To be honest I was using 3/8 round bar I use to make sissy bars but not hitting it very hard.. the pin moved a bit but then stopped.

But I'll try hitting it harder.
So what you are saying is that the pin has a hole in it where the bolt slides into?
I thought the bolt would just push again one of the flat surfaces. So I didn't want to hammer it hard as though the bolt would go back through the hole as there's still some on the thread.

[chevy_mike]

Yep, there is a hole in the pin, where the retainer bolt goes into. Did you see my above post showing a picture of what the retainer pin looks like? It's threaded but then has a long pin past the threaded part. They typically break where the threads and the pin part meet.

Here is what that center pin looks like,



And the retaining pin

[[JP]]

Ohh I did see your other post, even bookmarked the link to the extractor kit.

So as I can spin the center pin, then, as you guys say, its a case of giving it a good wack and then push the retaining pin leftovers out... simple!!

What about the rest, the spider gears and shims etc?
when putting it all back together, say, if I was to buy the parts new, do you need special tools? to know how many shims on either side? I dont know, so im just speculating here, but i'm guessing you need something to figure out the spider gears are all meshing at the same angle/height?

[chevy_mike]

They are a single shim for each spider gear. Putting them in is simple and no tools needed. The hard part is getting the last spider placed into the gear set, so the center pin lines up. Not hard but it might take a couple tries to get it in the right spot. It seems like having three hands would be helpful. LOL

[[JP]]

ah! right! well that sounds simple enough...
I thought there was a load of special gauges and measuring tools required to make it all sit at the same distance from eachothe, and different size shims to make all that happen...

well... its turning out to sound pretty simple, so I'll probably do it myself, saves getting the axle out of the truck and transporting to someone else and having to pay them

[chevy_mike]

Special gauges/tools are for if you setup a new ring and pinion gear set. Those are shimmed, lash, etc. The spiders are simple. You can get a full replacement set with gears, center pin, retainer pin and shims from Summit Racing.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mgr-gm12bi/overview/

[[JP]]

right.. got a quote from the axle company.. about £200 to make it all good.

I'm going with that instead of fixing it myself and then doubting if I've done it right.
I'll start taking the axle out tomorrow. dont expect it to be easy as probably nuts will be rusted or something lol.. there's always something!

I migth soak them first for a couple of days...yes, that might be better

[[JP]]

got home early from work and managed to pull the axle out.

what a frikin pain in the ass on my own, on my back, with axle stands and jacks and damn friking nuts seized. Good thing I go to the gym!!
brake lines were so rusted I cut the damn things off... now there's another thing I'm going to need!

[[JP]]

Well... it's worse than expected, just got an email from the axle place and some photos:

the root problem was as we suspected the shim behind the LH side gear has broken up and gone missing, allowing that side gear to slip back against the diff carrier and give you that in-out play on the LH halfshaft.
However, it appears that the shim has been either partially or completely missing for some time, and that bits of the shim have perhaps been stuck between the side gear and the case, galling the diff carrier surface where the shim is supposed to sit. Photo 3 shows the galling on the diff carrier face, whilst photo 1 shows a straight edge resting across the carrier face showing how much the centre of that running face has worn down.

The upshot of all this is that the carrier case itself is not salvageable unfortunately. The side gears are OK but the spider gears aren't - the cross pin bolt has also been broken for a while, and the cross pin has worn pretty badly which has also picked up in the bores of the spider gears where they run on the cross pin.
------------------------------------------------------------

So basically, its going to cost a fortune to get it fixed. Around 1000 dollars... bet over there I could get an axle for half that!
oh well... definitely not spending that money on it!

[The Rocknrod]

Sorry to hear that JP.
Look at the bright side - Now you can justify a new Moser axle assembly.

Or a used one: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=700765

[[JP]]

100 dollars??? that's nothing compared to the prices here!
how much does it weight? does anyone know how much would be to ship that to washington? then I could get it shipped over here really cheap

I guess I need to know how many splines on mine and.....something else?
sorry, not really a clue on what I'd be looking for, the ring gear ratio and all that won't matter right? I just need a diff carrier that will match however many splines my axle shafts have right?

thanks!

[Paul Y]

JP,

If it is fubard then look at upgrading to an LSD. Would be cheaper than getting another axle shipped over that could have 50'years of wear.

As a 65 you should be a 30 spline shaft unit. Don't forget that there are differant carriers for 4 gears and lower 3 gears.

Probably cost about $400 for the lsd, will the gears go again?

Will sort out the trims by the end of the week!

P.

[[JP]]

I just need the diff carrier and the spider gears, dont need the whole axle, so could just get those parts shipped over from the US.

Oh.. i didnt know about there being different carriers... how do I find which one do I currently have?

thanks man, no rush on the trims, truck isnt going anywhere haha