C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis

[68bowtie]

awesome build, very impressive.

[Malo83]

Originally Posted by 1971_c10

In parallel with waiting on the chassis, I mentioned I did a bunch of body measurements. Those measurements were 2 fold, primary reason was getting wheel backspace, secondary reason was doing some ride height calcs, spring rates etc. I then built a somewhat complicated spreadsheet that also helped me pick the rear gears. Biggest part of the spreadsheet though was the total track width calculation which I then compared to those body measurements I took.

Then it was off to order some rims. I wound up going with Boze Alloys out of CA. They had a spoke style I really liked and are reasonably priced for a 2 piece forged setup. Again, like the chassis, custom wheels have long lead times too. Boze hit their lead time right on of 7 weeks, but a few later on the order and I could have been waiting 8-10 weeks. So you do that in series with the chassis (wait to do backspace until you can measure) and it could be at least 6-7 months before you have a rolling chassis. Luckily, you can measure and No Limit provides some guidance as well. But in the end, it's still up to you. I wanted the wheels to tuck, so I went a little off the No Limit recommendation. So far so good.

Here are all my specs:

Boze Tach (a new school/old school 5 spoke)

Front:
18x9 with a 4.75" backspace
275/40/18 Nitto 555 G2
results in about a 26.5" diameter
just under 11" total width

Rear:
18x10 with a 5.75" backspace
295/40/18 Nitto 555 G2
results in about a 27" diameter
just under 12" total width

Beautiful build, looking at that same tire/rim setup on my 83 fleetside

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by BossHogg69

Very nice build, thanks for getting in depth & sharing all the details.

Thanks! ... and it's the least I can do since I've been trolling/learning from other build threads and I'm not a pro builder so I'll share everything if it helps someone else!

Originally Posted by 68bowtie

awesome build, very impressive.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Malo83

Beautiful build, looking at that same tire/rim setup on my 83 fleetside

Thanks! - you'll love the Boze rims. Just give them a call direct and they'll usually give you a pretty good deal. I can't wait to get these things out on the road and put them through the paces.

[HellaciousA]

Great build--I'm looking to purchase a pro-10 frame myself in the next couple months. My cab just got done being sand blasted and primed. Need to get the metal work done and then I'll buy the frame. I have a 05 lq4 and 4l80e waiting to go in, which will then be turbo'd.

I had some questions for you regarding the frame

1. Any tips on the shipping? I work at a body shop so I was planning on having it shipped there and then having a tow truck bring it home. I've seen some people cut out 3/4" plywood circles to bolt to the hubs as wheels to make it easier to roll. Or did you just put some dollies underneath it move it around?

2. What was the lead time for them to build the frame and get it to you?

3. Is there anything about the frame you didn't like or that you wish you would have changed? This will be one of the most expensive parts of my build, and I've been doing a lot of reading and comparing against the various frame companies.

4. How much clearance do you have between the passenger side frame rail and your
engine? I'm looking to run my downpipe in between there and was curious.


Thanks for the insight--can't wait to see your finished project.

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by HellaciousA

Great build--I'm looking to purchase a pro-10 frame myself in the next couple months. My cab just got done being sand blasted and primed. Need to get the metal work done and then I'll buy the frame. I have a 05 lq4 and 4l80e waiting to go in, which will then be turbo'd.

I had some questions for you regarding the frame

1. Any tips on the shipping? I work at a body shop so I was planning on having it shipped there and then having a tow truck bring it home. I've seen some people cut out 3/4" plywood circles to bolt to the hubs as wheels to make it easier to roll. Or did you just put some dollies underneath it move it around?

2. What was the lead time for them to build the frame and get it to you?

3. Is there anything about the frame you didn't like or that you wish you would have changed? This will be one of the most expensive parts of my build, and I've been doing a lot of reading and comparing against the various frame companies.

4. How much clearance do you have between the passenger side frame rail and your
engine? I'm looking to run my downpipe in between there and was curious.


Thanks for the insight--can't wait to see your finished project.

Thanks HellaciousA! Here's some answers to your questions:

1) Shipping ... oh, I've kept UPS in business lately, at least that's what it feels like. I, like you, are on the opposite side of the country from No Limit (they used to be out your way in CA), so I looked at driving out to pick it up and by the time I paid for cost of fuel and hotels, it was cheaper to ship. I got lucky and have an uncle who was able to borrow a flatbed trailer that is normally used to haul tractors and other heavy objects. So I picked the chassis up from the local UPS shipping depot (UPS freight, separate from the normal UPS). They put it on the trailer, which was a little precarious as the chassis ships on it's side, so we had to lay it down. If I didn't have the flatbed trailer, my plan was to have it received at a local shop and then bust it out of the crate, put some wheels on it and rent a u-haul car trailer to haul it home. The biggest thing about receiving it at a shop is the shop would need to have a dock and forklift. So if the body shop you work at has a dock and can rent a forklift that would be your easiest bet. It will save you a bunch of cash shipping to a commercial address that can handle receiving. You could ship it to your home, but it's much more than the usual $75 lift gate fee.

Once I got it home, unloading was a challenge. We did use some furniture dollies and an engine hoist, but despite the furniture dollies rated to 1000 lb each, they really didn't like 600 lb over 2 dollies. Total shipment is around 1100-1200 lbs. Then I put it on jack stands, busted it out of the crate, and didn't move it from there until I got the wheels. If you could borrow a set of wheels that fit your brakes and have the right bolt circle that would be beneficial until you get your final wheels. Since there is no body, backspace doesn't matter. I would not haul it on a car trailer with 3/4" plywood wheels. They would work ok rolling around a shop, but I think the lateral loads on a trailer would just break them. Since I didn't move it once I got it un-crated, I didn't bother with the plywood temp wheels.

Piece of advice (aka lesson learned): If you pick it up on a trailer, make sure it gets loaded onto the trailer so that when you unload it you don't need to spin it around. My "shop" (oversized 2 car garage) is small and we unloaded it to only find out the front was at the back, so I needed to rotate it around which was a bit of a pain. So, if you are unloading it into a garage, and you want the front of the chassis not next to the garage door, make sure you load the front of the chassis facing the back of the trailer.

2) It was about a 12 week lead time. I forget the actual, but it was close to that. Rob did say if they were slow they could do them in 8 weeks, but they haven't been slow in a couple years, so I'd expect 12-14 weeks.

3) I haven't found anything major, so far I love everything about it. The only thing so far is I wish the front bumper mounts had been drilled for the factory brackets.

4) So space is interesting. The frame rails are 29" apart, about 3" over stock, but space is still at a premium. I took a photo to help you understand the space a little better. I put a tape measure against the top of the cylinder head, so looking down to the chassis it looks about 5" to the frame rail. As you can see though, this is only around the rear of the motor, and keep in mind I have the motor shoved way back. The suspension up front does eat into that space. Only thing I'd say though is you might skip the fuel line option. Rob routes the fuel lines down the passenger side and puts a "bulk head" right below the cab for the fuel lines. This is a very nice feature, but does constrain you a bit on where the fuel lines get routed.

Hope all that helps! Let me know if there is anything else or other photos you'd like to see. I'm glad to help out.

[goldenburb]

Way COOL Build.
Hope to see your ride out on Golden Cruz night this summer.

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by goldenburb

Way COOL Build.
Hope to see your ride out on Golden Cruz night this summer.

Thanks man! I hope to get out to Golden this year. I was bummed to not make any last year. But such is the life of custom hot rod building.

[jus2qwk]

awesome build!

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by jus2qwk

awesome build!

Thank you!


------------------------

And to give you guys an update ... header ship date of 1/3 didn't hold. Next checkup is 1/17. Kinda stinks.

In the meantime, I've put the front clip back on and will be going through the task of getting the bumpers fitted. In the process, I found out why the front bumper never really aligned correctly. The previous owner had hand made some upper mounts using some 1/4" steel strips, a torch and brazed on a nut. Well, when he brazed the nut on, he did so at different distances from the bend in the bracket. So those are going in the trash can and I ordered a repro bracket kit from Summit (which is just Goodmark parts). I may have paid a couple bucks extra going through Summit, but their customer service has been awesome for me so I'll use them for most anything.

[1971_c10]

Had a busy last weekend ... so I'll start with the front bumper.

Whew ... fitting the front bumper has been a micro PIA. Mainly for a couple reasons: 1) I'm a bit OCD when it comes to getting the body features aligned; 2) the bumper itself isn't truly symmetrical; 3) the bumper mounts aren't quite the same as the factory. So keep in mind, the No Limit chassis doesn't have any holes drilled in the bumper mounts. I'm assuming this is so you can mount whatever you want with a clean slate, be it an OEM style bumper, roll pan, or a steel bar.

So it's a process of putting the bumper up, eyeballing fit, taking it down, shifting things around, repeat. Oh, and the grill is in that mess too.

After a few hours of trials, I finally got the holes for the bottom bumper mounts figured out. I then proceeded to punch a couple 1/2" holes in my nice pretty chassis. Hence the 4th reason it took me so long to get here. I didn't want to screw it up. The bottom holes set the height, and subsequently the alignment to the fenders.

Next up were the upper mount brackets and getting those positioned and holes drilled. The upper mounts set the tilt of the bumper.

So for those of you that want the details for measurements, here they are.
For reference, I used the cross bar that is the radiator support as the reference for front to back measurements, the outside face of the bumper mount for the side to side and the bottom for up/down.

Bottom hole: About 1/2" up from the bottom of the bumper mount, wrap this around onto the front of the mount, then about 1.25" in from the outside. My lower bumper holes were 26" apart, so that drove the 1.25" based on the outside to outside of the bumper mounts being 28.5"

Top Hole: I used the OEM style upper bracket. This one is 5 5/8" forward from the cross bar. I then put the hole close to the center, maybe a little outside of center. But I made sure I did the same thing on the left mount I did on the right mount.

I may wind up slotting the bottom hole to improve the mounting just a touch, but for right now it's just a 1/2" hole.

Then last set is the outside holes. They have a bracket I'll need to modify since the frame rails are roughly 3" wider vs stock. These mainly keep the bumper from flopping around and give it some additional structural support. So far I've sectioned 1.5" from the bracket, but I think I need a little more.

[1971_c10]

The other fun I had was ... HEADERS! They arrived 1/16. So I got them installed. These look pretty good. They clear the steering shaft and have great clearance to everything around the engine. Now, I don't have gaskets installed which will change the clearance around the steering shaft, but there is at least room to modify the tube if I need to, either by hammer or having a shop rework the routing a bit.

Also, these are long tube. They do come pretty close to the chassis cross member, so hopefully a shop can deal with the tight turns the exhaust would need to make. The other detail of the collector is the O2 bung points to the chassis rail and I'm not sure if there is enough room for the sensor. I have the sensors, but haven't tried to install one just yet. Worse case, I am thinking a shop can either cut and rotate the collector or just add another bung on the inside of the collector.

Here are the details of these headers:

Hooker Blackheart 304 Stainless for a 68-72 A-Body
1 7/8" primaries
3" collector
PN: 70101318-RHKR

[STOCKISH]

Very Very nice!

[Advanced Design]

I agree the headers look fun...bumper fitting...more like work. Nice job on getting it there, most folks won't comprehend the time spent getting bumper in right place.
We do though, appreciate the updates.

[knomadd]

Nice looking project. I'm in to see how you progress. I like what you've done so far.

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by STOCKISH

Very Very nice!

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Advanced Design

I agree the headers look fun...bumper fitting...more like work. Nice job on getting it there, most folks won't comprehend the time spent getting bumper in right place.
We do though, appreciate the updates.

Thanks! Yeah, and to make it more fun I was solo during all those trials. There were a couple times an extra hand would have come in handy to tighten a clamp! lol

And the chassis is so straight and square, it's pointing out other body alignment issues, like a low front corner on the passenger fender, and a rocker/door alignment on the passenger door that was there when I bought it, since I haven't touched the door alignment, but now shows up. Oh this will be fun on final assembly with pin stripes in the paint!

Originally Posted by knomadd

Nice looking project. I'm in to see how you progress. I like what you've done so far.

Thank you!

----------------------------------

And spent the day yesterday cleaning up the shop and organizing. Reason? The body will be coming back off in the coming days. Time to work towards finishing up the firewall mods.

Couple thoughts/questions for you guys:

-I'm thinking of relocating the fuse box since the number of wires has gone down significantly since I will now have a wire feed in the trans tunnel for the engine harness. Have you guys done relocations? If so, where? A couple thoughts I've had are under the driver seat (saw this on a another build) and in the kick panel.

-Parking brake: I'm toying around with changing this to a parking brake handle on the floor next to the floor shifter. Any thoughts or experience moving the parking brake from the OEM location? Even if I keep the OEM foot brake, I make look to modifying the cable routing so it does not exit the firewall. Thoughts?

Thanks guys! I love the feedback.

[rob32472]

I have always thought of building a recess in the kick panel for the fuse panel. As far the e-brake the electric systems make for a clean look. You have an awesome build going.

[knomadd]

Check out the e-stopp for the parking brake if you're wanting to get rid of the cable exiting the firewall. It's electric, like Rob suggested. It's a bit pricey, but I've heard good things. Was wanting to do this myself, but couldn't afford the extra cost when I was doing my firewall.

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by rob32472

I have always thought of building a recess in the kick panel for the fuse panel. As far the e-brake the electric systems make for a clean look. You have an awesome build going.

Originally Posted by knomadd

Check out the e-stopp for the parking brake if you're wanting to get rid of the cable exiting the firewall. It's electric, like Rob suggested. It's a bit pricey, but I've heard good things. Was wanting to do this myself, but couldn't afford the extra cost when I was doing my firewall.

Thanks guys! I checked into the e-brake today and found the e-stopp unit through google. It definitely looks like a well put together package. But wow, it does come with a price tag. Something I'll have to consider. Right now, I'm looking at around $100 to retro-fit my OEM pedal and convert it to a "down" cable so it won't exit the firewall. The e-stopp setup is ~$500. So that $400 difference is a good chunk of a driveshaft or exhaust. Fortunately, I can delay that decision a bit. It is a very tempting option.

And started pulling the body back off yesterday. Once I get the body off I'll finalize the driveline setup and get a driveshaft on order (hopefully the last long lead time item). I only live about 20 min from Mark Williams Enterprises so I'll probably buy local for that purchase!

[1971_c10]

Hey all, sorry for the delay in updates. We lost a family member on Jan 24th ... that's never easy even when it is somewhat expected.

Back to the truck, the body has been completely removed. That also gave me a different perspective on the header collector situation. It looked better from the bottom, but when looking from the top, not so much. Plus, the headers are hitting my transmission bell housing even with gaskets now installed (the shift the header off the head oh so slightly). So I may call Holley and ask them about it. Plus the #3 tube got really close to the steering shaft. Had about 1/16-1/8" clearance, not much. So with a better picture on fit, I'm started to have 2nd thoughts. It's mainly around the collector alignment. It's worse than I initially thought. I can re-work the #3 tube and put a could dents in the 2 tubes hitting the trans, but that sharp turn after the collector might be more pressure loss than I want to deal with.

Any one have any thoughts?

[knomadd]

Can you cut some material off the trans bellhousing? Sometimes the casting is a lot wider than necessary and you can just shave off a couple inches. Also, a couple 45s in the exhaust pipe should do the trick to clear through the openings, but I'm not quite sure my eyes are seeing the scale correctly to make sure they'd fit.

It's looking pretty good though! Good luck.

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by knomadd

Can you cut some material off the trans bellhousing? Sometimes the casting is a lot wider than necessary and you can just shave off a couple inches. Also, a couple 45s in the exhaust pipe should do the trick to clear through the openings, but I'm not quite sure my eyes are seeing the scale correctly to make sure they'd fit.

It's looking pretty good though! Good luck.

Hey, thanks man! The 45s is just the simple thought I was missing. Sometimes you just hit "builders block" (kinda like writers block) and some advice from others gets ya back on track. I'm going to see if the local auto parts stores have some 3" 45s in mild steel to do some trials. On the trans, the passenger side looks to have room to trim, and I thought about that over there. However, the driver side hits right where the screw for the converter cover is, so can't trim the trans that side unfortunately. So drivers side would need a little flattening work on the primary. [edit: haha, after posting, I wonder if I could trim the drivers side tab off and make a new mounting hole for the converter cover]

[1971_c10]

The trip the local autoparts store is always an interesting one. There's always that one guy behind the counter who thinks he knows more about your custom hot rod than you, and he hasn't even seen it. Haha. So no 3" 45s at the local stores, but one did have a 3" extension pipe for $7 so I picked that up.

Then me and the hacksaw (yes, my shop currently lacks a bandsaw, porta-band or a cutoff saw at the moment) went to town on chopping up that 3" pipe. I was able to get a make-shift 'S' pipe tacked together to see what that would look like. It's not too bad. One thing is for sure, the collector would need to be cut back quite a bit for this to work.

On to more tid bits ... checked the O2 sensors, they won't fit, so bungs need to be moved (or added). There is only ~3" between the O2 bung and the first "bend" to fit a clamp.

So wow, the re-work list got long:
-Modify #3 primary to get proper steering shaft clearance (I don't want to have the look of a hammered pipe right there up front)
-Relocate O2 bungs
-Shorten Collector
-Cut driver side mounting tab for converter cover and relocate mounting hole
-Trim passenger side casting around starter bump in bellhousing casting

Lots to think about. I'm bordering on sending these headers back and just taking it to a shop and letting them do the whole exhaust.

Here's some shots of what the exhaust would need to do. Excuse the poor fitting parts. The hacksaw blade would twist during the cut despite cranking up the tension. So I just sanded enough to get the parts to where I could tack them together.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by 1971_c10

Hey, thanks man! The 45s is just the simple thought I was missing. Sometimes you just hit "builders block" (kinda like writers block) and some advice from others gets ya back on track. I'm going to see if the local auto parts stores have some 3" 45s in mild steel to do some trials. On the trans, the passenger side looks to have room to trim, and I thought about that over there. However, the driver side hits right where the screw for the converter cover is, so can't trim the trans that side unfortunately. So drivers side would need a little flattening work on the primary. [edit: haha, after posting, I wonder if I could trim the drivers side tab off and make a new mounting hole for the converter cover]

Doesn't that cover utilize 4 holes like the earlier 700r4's? If so, you should be fine eliminating the upper mount on the driver side & slim down the casting on the pass side.

Also.... What about slightly enlarging the exhaust pass-through on the x-rail to allow a better transition on the collector bend?

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Doesn't that cover utilize 4 holes like the earlier 700r4's? If so, you should be fine eliminating the upper mount on the driver side & slim down the casting on the pass side.

Also.... What about slightly enlarging the exhaust pass-through on the x-rail to allow a better transition on the collector bend?

Hey SCOTI, Thanks for the thoughts!

Yeah, it's a 4 bolt inspection cover. It probably would be fine with 3 bolts, but I worry it would create a rattle that would drive me bonkers! But moving the mount hole shouldn't be too hard. I'd just drill a new hole close to the bellhousing with the cover bolted in then proceed with chopping off a 1/2-3/4" or so.

On the exhaust, the trick here is the collector also sits low relative to the cross member, so it would help with one angle, but the pipe would still need to kick up to get to the hole so it doesn't really help. I'm thinking a custom header builder could angle the collector like a corvette (only not as much) to get a better relationship to the cross member. No Limit recommends mid or short length headers to avoid this very scenario, but I'm stubborn and really want a long tube header. Otherwise I could do something like Ultimate Headers swept back mid-length and be done with it all.

[1971_c10]

Oh man it's been a busy few days...

So, after a couple phone calls, I have what could be an inside lead on headers. Can't say much more than that at the moment, but some promising news. With that, I sent the Hooker headers back. I figured if the inside lead doesn't pan out, I'll go custom. May still trim that driver side trans ear b/c is does stick way out there!

I also got the setup bars made. They aren't hard, but are a good thing to have and use. So good, that Rob now includes a set with every chassis they ship (so I hear). Regardless, a 6' 1x1 bar and some time and BAM! - setup bars.

The bars are based off coilover length from when I had the truck sitting at my desired stance. The longer bars are for the rear, and in reality the coilover will be 1" shorter when I go for final setup, but that difference is in the axle mount holes. I had the coilover "over extended" when setting ride height because there is not much weight and even with the light 200 lb/in springs they didn't compress much. So I shifted the coilover down one hole to get the ride height. To keep it simple I just made the setup bar for that length. The fronts (short ones) are spot on for length so that will come down to setting the preload to keep that coilover length.

For those not familiar with setup bars - setup bars put the suspension at ride height and keep it there. Lots of adjustments are made at ride height, with driveline angles being the most known. But pan hard bar, 4 bar setup and roll (sway) bar link length are a few other things done with the suspension at ride height. Fortunately, Rob at No Limit gets the setup pretty close when he ships. But still up to the builder to do the final setup. I will, however, rely on a shop with the right equipment to do the front axle toe, camber and caster final adjustments.

Oh --- also got the lines for the power steering made.