Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat

[socaljess]

great thread defenetly going to give this a try on my 66 whats the best year s10 trans to look for ? also i found this hamiltonintakes.com/ http://hamiltonintakes.com/products/...-swap-adapter#

[CRGRS 66]

Originally Posted by socaljess

great thread defenetly going to give this a try on my 66 whats the best year s10 trans to look for ? also i found this hamiltonintakes.com/ http://hamiltonintakes.com/products/...-swap-adapter#

I think you will find the answer to your question (in great detail) on page one of this thread.

[jocko]

socaljess, sorry late reply - crgrs is right, much info on page 1, but to answer your question - "it depends"... If you get a 93, you can have the added bonus of a WC trans' strength compared to non-WC. But, you will have to swap in a non-electronic speedo assembly. Not real sure how all that magic works because that's how my trans came from the swap meet (thank goodness...). If you're not gonna burn rubber at every light, an earlier S10 trans - mid-80's would fit the bill and also come with the mech speedo. Again, the IDEAL, if you happen to stumble across it, it a Camaro WC T5 with an S10 tailshaft housing - no spacer required and a little extra strength. But, hard to find, usually from someone else's project that went south... Hope that helps!

Remember to check how far off your speedo is when all done (with a GPS or pacer car, etc). Shouldn't technically change how far off yoru speedo was BEFORE the swap (i.e. you're reading from the final drive of the trans), but just good to know afterward.

[C-10cutty]

Originally Posted by jocko

socaljess, sorry late reply - crgrs is right, much info on page 1, but to answer your question - "it depends"... If you get a 93, you can have the added bonus of a WC trans' strength compared to non-WC. But, you will have to swap in a non-electronic speedo assembly. Not real sure how all that magic works because that's how my trans came from the swap meet (thank goodness...). If you're not gonna burn rubber at every light, an earlier S10 trans - mid-80's would fit the bill and also come with the mech speedo. Again, the IDEAL, if you happen to stumble across it, it a Camaro WC T5 with an S10 tailshaft housing - no spacer required and a little extra strength. But, hard to find, usually from someone else's project that went south... Hope that helps!

Remember to check how far off your speedo is when all done (with a GPS or pacer car, etc). Shouldn't technically change how far off yoru speedo was BEFORE the swap (i.e. you're reading from the final drive of the trans), but just good to know afterward.

This is what I'd like to do this winter if I get the parts put together. What year range of Camaro T5 would be best?

Would the Camaro T5 have a better first gear ratio?

thanks

[66herbie]

Awesome post! I'm planning on doing this very soon and this will be a great help! 66 250 C10
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[jocko]

thanks herbie. since you have a 6, I'd call this guy: http://vintagemetalworks.blogspot.co...ter-plate.html

He made this T5 adapter specifically for 6 cylinders, but I'd call and make sure it'll fit a 250. It should, I think. Main question is size of the index ring on your bell housing (2 types, one is >5" and one is <5" in dia.) I THINK he makes both diameters, but he's a great guy, have spoken to him on the phone - friendly, responsive, good truck guy.

[socaljess]

thanks jocko on the info and great thread

[socaljess]

did you use any thing at the rear of the trans such as a trans mount and or x member ??

[socaljess]

got my 5 speed done went with the cross breed camaro/s10 combo

[jocko]

If you retain the stock bellhousing (and it's associated dog-ear bell housing mounts), then you should not use a trans tail-housing crossmember. Only 2 mount locations should be used along the engine/trans driveline combo - not 3. (I'm counting both bell mounts as "1" and the engine mounts as "1").

This question comes up every once in a while and it's a good question - but if you note that newer vehicles that have rear trans crossmembers don't have bell housing mounts, it starts to make sense. Overall reason has to do with potential flexing, or resisting of flexing as a unit, etc of the engine/trans combo - so only 2 mount locations needed or deisred. Either Engine+bell, or Engine+trans rear crossmember.

[SIXT8LOU]

Originally Posted by jocko

If you retain the stock bellhousing (and it's associated dog-ear bell housing mounts), then you should not use a trans tail-housing crossmember. Only 2 mount locations should be used along the engine/trans driveline combo - not 3. (I'm counting both bell mounts as "1" and the engine mounts as "1").

This question comes up every once in a while and it's a good question - but if you note that newer vehicles that have rear trans crossmembers don't have bell housing mounts, it starts to make sense. Overall reason has to do with potential flexing, or resisting of flexing as a unit, etc of the engine/trans combo - so only 2 mount locations needed or deisred. Either Engine+bell, or Engine+trans rear crossmember.

thanks for info.. i recently read a mag article which says go with 3 mounts (as you described), he installed a newer 350 turbo mount at the back end. I was gonna do the same, figured it needed little more support back there, but I think your right on with the flexing issue,,,as long as the trans dont fall/break off the crossmember mounts! lol thanks

[Dano0579]

I have a borg warner t5 nwc transmission to get rid of if someone is looking.

[socaljess]

thanks jocko i wasnt shure what to do on the tail ...got my trans all together this weekend out old 3spd and going in then all i need is to get the drive shaft shortend heres a pic of what i picked up to put on the camaro case [IMG][/IMG]

[jocko]

so you have a camaro main case and S10 tailshaft? Best of both worlds, no adapter needed. Nice!

[glos55]

WOW Nice job jocko I'm impressed!!

[jocko]

thanks glos55, much appreciated. it's been a labor of love. And hate, occasionally

C-10 cutty - here's some links that might help answer some of your quesitons - the Camaro 1st gear ratios are, generally speaking, lower (numerically) on v8 cars compared to v6 and or an S10 4 or 6 (i.e. generally speaking, an engine that came from the factory with less torque will have a deeper (higher numerical) 1st gear to help multiply the torque better for a tiny engine). But this first link shows what ratios came in what.
http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Bo...T5-ID-Tags.htm One more note - don't fall into the trap of thinking that what I said above means to buy a small engine's trans so that you can have massive torque multiplication and do a lot of burnouts. 1) you'll blow the trans and 2) even if you don't, you'll only be halfway across an intersection before it's time to shift into 2nd gear. To me, the Camaro v8 T5 main case is an ideal arrangement and it makes 1st gear a lot more useful and similar to today's cars, especially if you already have a 3.73 rear end. If you have a 3.08 rear, then a 4.0+ 1st gear ration in the trans might not be too bad. BUt the 4.0+ 1st gear ratio (like what came in a 4 cyl S10) and a 3.73 (or higher numerically) rear end can become a bothersome combo - 1st gear rapidly becomes useless, and you'll want to start off in 2nd gear.

This thread is great info for identifying a "found" T5 as a WC or non-WC visually - especially the first 2 pics are the best ID tip I've seen.
http://www.flatheadv8.org/ernie/ernie-t5.htm

One very important note (quote) from the above link: "It’s worth noting again that the ’93-95 F-body V6 cars got a Ford case with a GM input shaft" - in other words, AVOID them because the case bolt pattern is ford.. no workie for our swaps. Note that is F-body (Camaro/Firebody) only - a 93 S10 still has the correct GM bell bolt pattern. That is what mine is.

As to what year Camaro/F-body main case to look for - I'd focus on 92 and earlier to avoid the Ford bolt pattern snafu. Among those, I'm not sure which is more or less good - but essentially just look at the first link, determine if you want a v8 or I4/V6 gear ratio set, and use the 2nd link to ID a trans as a WC or non-WC and those are the two major considerations in my mind.

I'm not certain that the non-v8 Camaro T5s were WC trans's - but you can ask the seller then visually confirm, etc.

Hope that helps!

[Bazooka]

Jocko thanks for all the time and effort you put into this thread I really appreciate it.

I scored my s10 tailshaft and top plate on ebay.

[jocko]

Good deal! Finding that separately makes your main case search a simple deal - find a Camaro T5 and you're set!

[socaljess]

Nice score bazooka i was eyeballin that same set up on ebay for my truck lol but to swap it out was perty easy just besure to pull out tour input shaft and check the main shat and pocket bearings mine started to have some flaking the parts are cheap found a good place to get a a synco and the bearing at anahiem gear cost me 22.00 bucks and they ship all over
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[C-10cutty]

Thanks for the wealth of info Jocko. I'm going to look at a '93 t5 out of an S=10 tomorrow and will be looking for a Camaro main case this fall. My truck still has stock 3.90 gears so first would be just a crawl.

[jocko]

Thanks C10cutty - if it's a 93 S10 you're going to look at, it could very well be a WC T5, if it is - I'd just add a spacer and not worry about the Camaro main case. But might be worthwhile to check the part number tag and see what you have - then cross check it against some of the links in this thread to see if the ratios work for your applicaiton - if they don't, then the Camaro main case might be better for you.

Good luck.

[C-10cutty]

Thanks again. Will be taking tag info.

[CRGRS 66]

Hey Jocko, have another question for you. I have been contemplating rebuilding my 283 (stk horsepower listed as 145), but considering the cost and time involved it seems to make more sense to get a crate engine. I also want more horsepower, not for burn outs, but for pulling a camper. I am looking at a 350 crate engine that advertises 275HP with a 2bbl. I would likely add another 10-20 HP with my edelbrock intake at 600cfm holley 4bbl, as well as adding headers. So, let's say that I will have 290HP. Is this too much for a NWC T5 if I don't drive it like a teenager?

[jocko]

I'd say it's probably borderline. Good that no burnouts are planned - but pulling a camper is probably the bigger concern - that will stress a trans also, not via burnout shock. How big of a camper are you talking about?

If I'm not mistaken, stock Mustang WC T5's were only rated at close to 300 hp - but it's the torque that'll kill the trans, not the hp, per se.

If it's a small trailer and you're going to go easy on it like you say - then probably no problem - if you're talking 5th wheel max GVWR setup, then the bigger engine won't matter, the continual load will kill it. Hauling heavy isn't really in the T5's playbook. But again, if small camper, pop-up type or small old-school, should be ok. But to be honest, might be pushing it a bit (the load of the camper, not the crate engine). My 2 cents only though, don't know of a real definitive source of just how much a T5 can withstand for hauling purposes...

[CRGRS 66]

I currently have a small camper, similar to a trillium, or boler, but smaller. I am wanting to get a bigger camper though, like 18', GVW of approx 3000lbs...