47-55.1 Two Steps back. My high school chevy 1950 3100

[Roust]

Originally Posted by dsraven

when i did a firewall in a task force truck I used 16 ga sheet and had a fab shop do the bend. I started by hanging the doors with a good set of hinges, fit the door to the opening, then installed the latch plate and adjusted that so the door fit well. then, with the doors closed I went inside and tacked a length of 3/4 black pipe across the lower part of the opening, about 4" off the floor from the front to the rear of the opening. then a cross brace from the rear of that pipe up to the top corner of the door. then I ran an X of pipe from the lower corner on one side to the upper corner on the other side behind the firewall area to keep the front of the cab from becoming a parallelgram. do this after a few dimension checks to ensure it isn't already out of shape. then I took the doors off. the horizontal pipe above the floor allows a long 2x4 to be slid under the black pipe and through to the other side so the cab can be hung on a set of sawhorses by the 2x4's. I also braced the back of that cab but that was becuase I removed the whole floor, firewall and rear wall. I made tacks that can be ground off with a zip disc but will be strong enough to not come off while working.
I have used self tapping sheet metal screws before with success as well. a hole is a hole so even a cleco needs a spot weld when done.
when you hang the doors first there is a good chance they will fit properly when you go to install them again. lots of times I drill a small hole through both parts when they are adjusted right, mark the hinges whare they go etc, then when they go together for the last time they usually fit well.
weld through primer is a copper or zinc product that conducts the current. regular epoxy or other products may not. a tip, when you use a mig always cut the wire before you start so there is a chisel tip on the wire that strikes a spark right away and doesn't leave a bunch of contaminants in the weld from the oxidized ball that is usually left on the mig wire from the last weld.

Originally Posted by dsraven

as you know, the original cabs, and aftermarket cabs, are all spot welded together, not fully welded at the seams.you could do the same thing instead of welding the whole seam and possibly distorting the flat panels. drill through the old spot welds and clean the metal up well, do any flattening needed etc to get a nice flat surface for the new panel to sit on. place the new sheet tightly against that, cleco or screw it down tight after the weld through primier. then do the spot welds one at a time and ensure they cool off well. good clean metal, shielding gas and a auto darkening helmet with the correct shade really help. do a weld. stop and cool it, do another weld, stop and cool etc. feel the panel with a bare hand and if you wouldn't put your tongue on it because it is too hot, then let it cool off before you do another weld.

Originally Posted by dsraven

will you run a firewall booster and pedals?

Originally Posted by dsraven

if not, you could fab a few braces with a wide flange where it mounts to the firewall and use panel adhesive to keep them stuck together. its what holds new cars together, haha. that would brace the firewall if no pedals etc. I wouldn't do that if you are hanging stuff off the firewall

Dsraven,

Thanks for the description of how you braced the cab. I couldn't find plumbing pipe at any kind of reasonable prices, so I opted to go to the metal supply store and just got 8 pieces of 1"X1"X6' square tube. I'll have to cut them to length but I will start bracing soon.

The way I cut the firewall out, there are no longer any original spot welds left. I cut really high up. So I'm thinking the cut and butt method is where I am going have to go. I would love for the firewall to blend into the upper curved feature of the cab cowl. But that doesn't mean I can't try running some support midway down. I will have to seem what looks right and how adventurous I am feeling.

I will NOT be running anything on the firewall. The brakes are under the cab. The column should be going through the toe board. At least it did on mock up...

[Roust]

Originally Posted by 8man

Man, that "body guy" did a number on that truck. You are moving it along, and now you will know it's done right.

Learning how to do something is part of the fun in doing this stuff. So, enjoy that part of it and it'll go better. Oh, and it's just steel, you are doing right cutting out the offending part and replacing it properly!

He sure did.
Well if it's not done right, at least I will know what kind of work is under the paint haha.

[Roust]

Originally Posted by Hey Dude

Following along. For what it's worth, I waited 14 months to get my forum approval to post. I was all done with my project before I could even ask for pointers. Luckily there is ample info if you search enough of the build threads.

Looks great so far.

Originally Posted by gsinon

It took me nearly a year to get approval to join the forum! I was already pretty far into my build as well.

What do you think that delay crap is about. We could have so may more people sharing their experiences, if it would be a smooth process.

Imagine all the people whole fail to gain access to posting and simply give up. Never checking back later and never updating or creating any thread documenting their experience.

The ton of info on the board already does lend to plenty of inspiration though.

[Roust]

Starting to straighten out the A pillar issues.
It's minor damage, but what I think happened is the driver side door was swung open too far, damaging the hinge pocket and denting the driver side outer cowl panel.

I don't have close up pics of the hinge pocket waves from before, but I was able to get the body roll straightened out with a slide hammer. I used the 2-jaw straight bar and a square hook to get into where I needed to bang the pocket out. The bare metal on the right side in this pic was where the adjustments took place.


I did manage to get my fingers and thumb caught up in all the banging. Two separate times..

Mind your body parts.

[8man]

Now that you've bled on it, no one can say it's not yours!

[dsraven]

I've lost a little blood myself. blood, skin, finger nails, etc. I keep a roll of electrical tape on the workbench for use as a shop bandaid. it keeps the cuts on fingers nice and tight so it is like a steri strip so the blood stops quick and doesn't fill my glove up. haha. I have a set of tig welding gloves that fit pretty well and allow some level of dexterity, better than a lot of gloves. I have tried the cool looking mechanix gloves but find I end up ripping them off in fury because of one reason or another. I have a set for general work and another set for actual welding so any holes don't get sparks coming through. an el cheapo deluxe leather apron is also a bonus and saves the coveralls or clothes, and stops most of those wire wheel strands that fly off while doing that work.
I had a thought on your firewall replacement. after you get it all braced up I would have the area blasted so you really know what you have for metal. blasting will blow through or show a bunch of pinholes in any spots that should be replaced. after that what about cleaning up the remaining flanged area along the top edge, do any metal working needed to get it smooth and flat and make it an even amount of flanged material all around. fill any holes and redrill them at evenly spaced intervals (personally I like a 5/16 or 3/8 hole to weld through because that allows the mig wire to get a good start on the metal behind, you can see it, and then I just get to the edge of the hole right away and follow the perimeter around till it's finished, no hoping it is welded and then finding out it looks good but it only filled the hole on the outside with no attachemnt to the backside metal part), take the square edge off the firewall side of the flange and then use that as the flange to spot weld through into the firewall sheet that can be tucked up behind. use weld through primer on the back side of the cab flange and the front side of the firewall sheet. you could cleco or screw through the holes you pre-drilled if you drill every second hole small to fit the cleco or screw. that should hold the firewall panel nice and tight and when the clecos or screws are removed it is easy to redrill the flange side a little bigger so you can spot weld those holes through to the firewall sheet and have uniform looking spot weld spacings and sizes. those welds can be ground flat and that would allow you to get it done with less warpage possibilities, fitment issues, cussing etc. use a good seam sealer along the edge when you are all done. it would probably look like it was supposed to be that way. if you could convince someone to help you the spot welds could be "hammer on dolly'd" while still hot to minimize shrinkage as they cool off. weld, hammer/dolly, cool. move on. you could finish the sides in the same manner if you fabbed the required parts so you have something to weld through. I would do the firewall first so the cab has some structure before welding in the kick panels. thats just me though. I am thinking how stuff tends to move a little after each heat and cool cycle and overall could move quite a bit when all those cycles are added up. if using screws to attach the firewall a horizontal brace could be screwed on over top of the whole thing at about the height of where the firewall returns to meet up with the floor. it would be easily removed when you get to that spot but would hold things where they need to be until then. a length of angle iron would work well.
just a thought. maybe you like it , maybe not. just thinking since you don't like your welding skill level for a long butt weld this may get you there and still be plenty strong and likely look decent too.

[dsraven]

door pillar looks good.......

[Roust]

Dsraven

Thank you for your thought-out response and suggestions.

I learned the hard way about protective clothing! I have even been sliced up by a head gasket. GLOVES GLOVES GLOVES. And pants that can cover the top/opening of your boots. Nothing like getting red hot slag in your boots!

I will trim and clean up the firewall lip as your suggested. I have started trying to shape it a bit with plies and hammer and dolly. So far so good. I don't think I am going to chase the holes around and weld them up. I will probably just trim above them.
The truck was sand blasted before the last the metal guy went to work. I am hoping that any issues that came up will still be visible when I strip off the body work. I know it's a ton of work to strip by hand, but it seems like the bed I have made for myself at this point.

The only thing I could see messing me up with the plan of welding the new firewall sheet BHENIND the existing lip of the cab, is that it would create a border with a step down. I would worry that I wouldn't be able to get that "feature" to come out evenly spaced and symmetrical, introducing the same problem I had with a pattern or feature that just caught the eye for being off.

I will not throw the idea out though. I think while I am fixing up the lip that is there. I will also try to trim it to have a consistent width and radius at the corners. Maybe if I can get the lip looking symmetrical and all that (like it was from the factory, but much much much smaller) I could give the tucked behind firewall a shot! And once the sheet is in place, it will be a next to impossible to get to both sides to hammer and dolly, so spot welding would help with some of that.

I have committed to doing the firewall last or second from last followed by the toe board. It's just too damned open and easy to get to all the cowl panels. I hope it doesn't bite me in the ass, but I did do my best at bracing the cab.

[Roust]

I spent some time getting the bracing together for the cab in preparation for cutting out the front panels. I used 1" square tube and tried to focus on the door jam spacing. Then I tied the upper part of the jam bracing together side to side with and "X" of pipe. Those "X's" are welded together with a spacer in the middle. trying to make triangles. They say triangles are your friend for strength.






I also made an "X" from the floorboard to the underside of the upper cab cowl to stop any major shifting from happening up from when the cowl panels get removed. The floorboard should be relatively stable as it is bolded to my cab dolly via the front cab mounts.

[Roust]

After bracing, I went on to cutting out the drive side outer cowl. I used a spot weld cutter (well several of them as I broke the teeth off about every4 or 5 spot welds) and a drill bit to create a pilot. Make sure you make pilot holes, or at least deeeeeep indents. The spot cutter loves to just skip across your sheet metal, breaking teeth along the way.


I gave up on getting the upper spot welds out while the panel was in one piece. I cut just below it with a die grinder and out the panel came. Now that it is out of the way I can get a better idea of where the hiding welds are and use a little more dexterity to get them out. I do not want to **** up the features of the cab upper cowl area!

[dsraven]

one thing that I found to work well for spot welds was to look in the factory assembly manual for their locations and how many there are in the area, then drill them right through with a regular drill bit and then I have a heavy duty scraper/putty knif that I sharpened on the side edge. i use that scraper forced in between the panels and then hammer it along the seam to cut through the rest of the spot weld that remains after the drill through process. this leaves a hole where every spot weld was, I know, but then I use that hole to re-spot weld the new panel on. I got tired of buying spot weld cutters for the same reason, but there is a spot weld cutter that looks like a drill bit andseem to last longer. the link shows a pic, mine were a cheap set and lasted not bad before the nub on the tip would break off. I did sharpen a few with success.

https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/pro...neumatic-tools

I tried this style but found they break so easily. maybe because my panelled areas were not very flat when I tried this style

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...e-cutter-17224

you could step flange the edge of your firewall panel to fit behind the lip and still be able to spot weld it in from the front side. I have a cheap air operated step flange/punch tool that works pretty well but it doesn't have a very deep lip on the flange. I am sure there are others available, even some vice grip style ones, or you could make your own jaws for a vice grip. or if you know somebody with a bead roller they could flange it for you
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Air-Punch-F...edirect=mobile

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Blair-Sheet...edirect=mobile

I have one of these air hammer flangers as well but find it is hard to control unless you have the panel secured well. the tool tends to want to go it's own way so you need to force it against the edge of the panel as you work across the edge.

[dsraven]

you could weld the spot welds through your existing holes from the front side if you wanted to still go that route. smooth both sides of the flanges area first, then hammer and dolly the flange flat, then slip the new step flanged panel in behind and screw it down through some of the existing holes, using flat washers under the tek screws to help distribute the forces and keep the flange flat.
just some ideas.
if you have a big enough air compressor to allow sand blasting with a small blaster they work well to clean up the rusty areas behind the removed panels. use a flap disc or a strip disc fist to remove as much as possible fist and then the sandblast time is way less. as well as the clean up time after in the shop (I do mine outside if possible).
one of these types can also be used with a hose into a bucket of sand
https://www.lematec-tools.com/lemate...e-tool-as118-2
I also have one of this style with it's own bucket
https://articulo.mercadolibre.com.mx...xoCvoIQAvD_BwE

[PhilnTX]

Check out Hydramat. https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/hydramat/

[Roust]

dsraven

I actually have one of the green book assembly manuals. I was doing what you suggested and looking at the recommended spot weld placements. I also tried to use it to help confirm the a and b pillar spacing but I was struggling with the "front of dash" datum they use for a lot of the call outs. Oh well, it was worth a shot.

I got one of those punch things several years ago at harbor freight. It didn't particularly well for me. Granted, I wasn't using the flanging die. I was using the punch. Actually I ran across it in the garage today. I was debating about throwing it out.

So you turned a putty knife into a spot weld cutter? Did it hold up when you went to hammer on it? That is an interesting idea. I might have to give it a shot.

I don't have anywhere to do blasting at for the time being, unfortunately. I'm stuck in the garage until I get this old ass 1976 ford courier running and out of the way.

[Roust]

PhilnTX

I don't think I could get that stuff into the tank because of the fuel bowl.

[Roust]

I was able to spend some more time on the truck.

I got the aftermarket/replacement inner kick panel and outer cowl mocked up.



Unfortunately, after I dug out the outer cowl panel, I ended up deciding to use the upper part of the replacement kick panel, AFTER I had already cut it off. whoops. So, I had to try my hand at welding it back together. I did my best to endure that the hood hinge mounting considerations were lined up.




Nothing like making more work for your self. Oh well. I think it went back together fairly trouble free.

[Roust]

Now I got to try my hand at actually installing something permanently into the truck.

I decided to install the inner kick panel first for two reasons. One, it would let me experience plug welding on a panel that will be covered with sound deadening material and will be generally out of sight. And second, I am not sure if I want to test fit my doors BEFORE welding in the outer cowl panel. I may be over thinking the door to panel alignment. I haven't decided yet.

Used weld through primer on where the plug welds would be run.


I put way too much material into the plug welds, but at least I got some good penetration haha. Next time I might try a "tac weld" approach to this. Run the welder hot and fill it up with a few hot zaps instead of trying to "trace" around the hole. We shall see next time.


You know what they say, "grinder and paint makes you the welder you ain't"

[dsraven]

looks pretty good. how big are the plug weld holes? I usually try to use a hole large enough so when I plug weld it I can see the weld melting into the base material of the rear sheet behind the hole. I tried a smaller hole back when I wa first learning years ago and found that some of the welds only had a small arc touch the rear piece and the hole filled up, so it looked good but didn't hold the parts together. with a larger hole, like 3/8, it is easier to see the metal at the bottom of the hole. yep, it makes a bigger spot but it is stuck for sure.
the face of dash usually refers to the firewall, at least on the 55-59 drawings
I would def hang a door before welding up the side panels. at this stage it is easier to hang, align, weld a few spots on the panel, remove the door and finish the panel. at least you know what you have then. kinda late after the fact if the door doesn't fit.
just my opinion

[dsraven]

if you have some scrap material the same gauge as the firewall material you could try your flange tool, see if you can make it work. have you got a pic of it? is it a "pull the handle once, get one tool cycle" or is it more like pull the handle and it rattles away like an air hammer? I have both styles and find the "pull it once, get one cycle of the jaws" works best.

[dsraven]

mine looks like this, the one I like most.
https://www.harborfreight.com/air-pu...tool-1110.html

[dsraven]

I have one like this but find it goes where it wants
https://www.eastwood.com/tools/pneum...h-flanger.html

[dsraven]

the tool I like most WILL punch a hole, but it's a small hole, I usually use a unibit to drill that hole bigger before plug welding through it. the tool is easier than starting all those holes with the drill for sure. sometimes i will use the small punched hole to place a screw through and hold panels, that way the screw doesn't displace any metal between the panels. I use tek screws with a hex head as they are easy to install and remove with the drill/driver

[Getter-Done]

Great build

I like your progress you have made.

Will you paint it back the same color?


P.S. Here is what I like for spot welds in the link below.

They have various sizes.

Link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/12495139962...AAAOSwaPZhZuW3

[dsraven]

I would rather grind off some stuff than have a nice looking weld that didn't stick to both parts.
thats the spot weld cutter i like too. be carefull though because rough use will break the little tip off. hard to grind that back into the end again.

[Roust]

Once again, it has been a while.

I have made a bit more progress.
I started with taking a swipe at the passenger side kick panel. I was extremely thing and floppy. I didn't want to cut the whole thing out so I just cut up as far as I felt the metal was compromised. I then used a reproduction panel and cut off the part I needed, or was it the part I didn't need????



Test fit with those little holder things.


Welded it in and "cleaned" it up.