bed mount question - bent frame from towing?

[4dranch]

Originally Posted by padresag

4dranch; I really don't know what you are trying to say;
I have answered every question and please illustrate where I have given anyone incorrect information
regards
ron

Ron,
All I was trying to say was sometimes a long explanation like Joe was giving is a lot better than a short one to folks who are new to working on these trucks. And I don't think I said you gave incorrect information.

[padresag]

Originally Posted by 4dranch

Ron,
All I was trying to say was sometimes a long explanation like Joe was giving is a lot better than a short one to folks who are new to working on these trucks. And I don't think I said you gave incorrect information.

I'm sure I'm not the only person on this site who needs the long explanation on some of the hard to figure out questions and situations we find ourselves in while trying to work on these trucks. So for my sake and the others please continue to try and get as much information before answering questions. I know some of you guys may know a lot about these rigs, but some of us don't. And Ron this may piss you off and for that I'm sorry. But when folks ask questions about a motor vehicle that may be someday traveling in front of you and/or your family someday on the interstate I'm sure you would want thta rig to be safe, I know I would and it's folks like Joe and others here who help us out and make sure we do our builds correct. after all it's their reputation on the line if someone gets hurt from some incorrect information.

1st- I was replying to the question given. if you have a question about it or something that you do not understand then all you have to do is ask. only by posing your concerns will the topic expand. you cannot expect someone to write a book for every question

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But when folks ask questions about a motor vehicle that may be someday traveling in front of you and/or your family someday on the interstate I'm sure you would want thta rig to be safe, I know I would and it's folks like Joe and others here who help us out and make sure we do our builds correct. after all it's their reputation on the line if someone gets hurt from some incorrect information.

4dranch- one should not take any info given on these sites as gospel. there is so much misinformation . all that you can do is asimilate all the information that you can on a subject and figure if it can do you any good and apply at your own risk
now about the incorrect information
"I know I would and it's folks like Joe and others here who help us out and make sure we do our builds correct. after all it's their reputation on the line if someone gets hurt from some incorrect information.". so here you are saying that I am not helping and inferring that I give incorrect information
that is what your statement says to me

I don't have to be here
ron

[4dranch]

Okay Thanks Ron.

[Chuck78]

Ron, the lengthy explanation a few posts back on page 2 really answered a lot of questions. First off, I had no idea that the panels didn't have the standard p/u bed wood! I thought someone just replaced it with plywood and that it was not properly done!
Secondly, I think mine is 3/4" oak plywood. You say it's two pieces of half inch? Two pieces stacked? or did you just mean a left piece and a right piece? One layer of 1/2" seems pretty flimsy for a floor to me. If it is supposed to be half inch, and I have 3/4", that is another big problem that I'll have to deal with.

Also, the previous owner did apparent;y replace the bed wood. It was refinished top and bottom, even in places that you could not get to without taking it off. Also, everything under the bed wood was stripped and painted nicely at the time, where under the cab and forward are still factory finish and some rust here and there... You can tell the stuff was painted from above with the wood out.
I also had no idea how incredibly hard it was to remove the bed wood! I should plan on an entire saturday to do th is project then, and keep my Sunday free just in case.

I got your dimensions and all from the GMC forum. The ones from Harmon's that I posted for 73-80 Blazers do not list any dimensions, that is why I posted them (as they may possibly be of help to us 60-66 guys, but not sure). I sensed that you were a little upset about something in your reply to that, and I took slight offense, as I didn't understand why you were being short with me, as I was posting separate questions and info from what you had told me. Sorry if I somehow confused you. Your answers on the GMC V6 list solved some of my questions, but I have more as well, which I asked on here, and you apparently had thought to have already answered those questions. I still don't know the dimensions of these blazer units, but they look fairly similar. I know you posted about the 67-68 Suburban mounts, and said the 69-72 were slightly different, but you did not know the dimensions. The ones I then brought up were not 67-72, nor suburban, they were blazer mounts 73-80, which I don't think had been discussed at all on either site yet (unless I didn't receive my daily digest email on the GMC stuff somewhere along the line).

I worked under my truck a lot last night, and had the gas tank out. I tried to pull a string as best as I could, and the frame does not appear bent down in the rear, and I also visually inspected the frame, and there were no signs anywhere of any disfiguration or stretching, stress, crinkles, etc. In fact, the beefiest part of the rear frame is the section about 16" back from the axle. I spent a lot of time cleaning out a hundred or two acorns out of there with the tank out last night! Thick metal, double "C" welded together to form a box. I definitely agree that it would take A LOT to bend that.

[Chuck78]

Originally Posted by padresag

it sits right at the back of the high flat section just before it drops. the 3rd picture of protrash shows it in it's proper place just above the panhard bar
it is located 32 3/4" behind the frt cross sill and 24' in frt of the rear cross sill and that is centre to centre on the bolt holes
ron

My apoligies Ron, I must have read this at 2AM, as I missed it. From description that went something like, "the reinforcement strip in question sits at the very rear portion of the highest point of the frame, right before it drops downward to the rear," I got quite confused. I measured mine, and sure enough, it is in the wrong location one set of wear strip bolts to the front (about a foot) at the highest point of the rear frame over the axle (just in front of the axle). From your measurements, the next set of wear strip bolts in the bed are in fact exactly as you said, 24" in front of the rear cross sill, and 32-3/4" to the rear of the forward cross sill. This is directly over the panhard bar mount, and to my confusion, directly over the part of the frame that is dropping downward to the rear (i.e. NOT above the highest part of the frame). By the description " at the rear of the highest part of the frame" I was still scratching my head. By the measurements, it makes perfect sense, and now I have another reason that I need to jack up the whole body and pull out the bed wood!

I sure as heck wish the previous owner(s) would have done this right, and also replaced the body mounts when they had it apart! They left the body mounts there, but left the bolts completely out of the two sets of rubber mounts on the cross sills, and put the bed wood back on! Some people!!! Why!>??!?!?! So I am missing all the lower rubber mounts under the cross sills, and 3 of the uppers managed to stay with the truck, but one took a hike down the road somewhere. Add that to the list of 200+ other stupid things I have had to fix due to the previous owner's "runs good, partially restored" description! meant "barely runs, help bail us out of this mess!"

[padresag]

the floors are painted originally.
the split in the floor is from front to back, up the middle. the plywood is 3/4" thick
The discrepencythat I see in all of this is if the prev owner went through the trouble of replacing the floor and painting it all up and such; why did he leave old worn out insulators in there. now you will find out when you go to remove the bolts, esp the ones on either that go upwards into the body as to how they come out. if they hav e been out before than it shouldn't be to bad. why do you want to take it out. if you are just going to change the insulators the only time that you have to touch the floor is to take out the long stovebolts that go down through the mount. you will just have to raise the cross sills from the bottom sides to change the mounts. the small cross sill that just mounts to the floor will have adequate clearance once you replace the mounts unless that there are rust problem with the body sections.
I do have a spare floor that is sitting out.if any one wants to see a picture of one out.
I am also fortunate to have about 20 good insulators. I pulled all this stuff from my ambulance when I parted it out.it only had 67,000 mi. the floor was all covered over.the wear strips still look like new,like the inner fender tubs; they were never touched(still bright new metal)
the only problem that I have seen with the floors is that the metal around them goes bad first
ron
Lewis Matkin who is on the 6066gmc board frequently is a wonderful source of information .his dad did own a gm dealership in the day. Lewis does have all the parts books and understands them quite well

[joe231]

Originally Posted by padresag

hey Joe my demeanor can be be short, but at least I answer with more than 1 word and I can be annoyed at times but that doesn't mean hateful. I do hate to waste words

Ron, I will file that away for future reference

Originally Posted by padresag

the metal strips do fasten to the cross sills and the holes are drilled to application of where they are to mount. the strips also just fasten to the plywood
suburbans are different again in that most use a rubber covering over the plywood and they use special washers in fastening to the cross sills
ron

Ok, the only point I was/am making is that the holes in the wear strips dictate where the re-enforcement strip goes, and I would assume the re-enforcement strip is there to span the area (over the axle) between the cross sills so in the event that a heavy enough load is put on the floor to cause the floor to sag in that area the re-enforcement strip will sit on the frame and help carry the load with out causing damage to the wood, correct? these trucks were built to be worked

[padresag]

I think that would be an accurate assessment joe
ron

[Chuck78]

Today I got my "67-72" Suburban body mount bushing set from Bob's Chevy Truck Parts. Not sure that I can use the cab mounts, but the bed mounts are what I was after, and $200 for something that is almost the same was my only option!

Got the calipers on them, and they measure about .745" to .760" thickness (some variance). Outside dimensions are identical. My old ones were so rotted that they were squashed down to about .520". It was stated earlier on here that the originals were .720" thickness.
The big difference is that the hole in the center is MUCH larger. The old ones were about .437" in the steel plate and about .750" in the rubber. The 67-72 style are .770" in the steel plate, and 1.028" in the rubber.
It's pouring down rain right now, but I'll take a look later on and see what it looks like this will mean for mounting them up.

[Chuck78]

Originally Posted by padresag

Ron, this is Lewis. Please forgive me for not getting back sooner, but I have been busy in my work for the church I serve. I checked both my 65-66 parts manual and my 67-72 parts manual. This is what I discovered: 1964-6 body mounts are p/n 3794779, w/dimentions of 1.76" w; 3.00" l; 0.92" thick, needing 8 (up & lwr same). The 67-8 p/n is 3909351 up & lwr, 69-72 uses 3909351 as the lwr, but p/n 3946246 is the upr. No dimensions are given for these cushions, and it seems that the frame changed in '69. Qty's in 67-8 are 16, with 69-72 requiring 10 of each. If you have dimensional access to the later cushions, these 64-66 dimensions should help you. Like you, I suspect that the 67-8 cushions will work, but there is no superseded p/n's between the body styles. I can tell you that years ago I bought cab mounts for my 65 and the p/n's had superseded to the mounts for the 67-72 cabs. I hope that this info is of some assistance in answering this question.

the good ones that I have measure about .720" thick but if one measures in the round raised protrusion( around the bolt hole) that was mentioned earlier
Lewis's measure of 0.92" thick would be correct
ron

I re-read all of this. I believe the reason that this kit advertised 67-72 is that, as Lewis Matkin stated to Ron via email, that 67-68 used p/n 3909351 for upper and lowers, and the 69-72 used that part for the lowers, but a different upper. Looking at my "67-72" set, the 69-72 uppers are larger in all dimensions. Apparently if you buy this set, you have to flip flop which pads you use as the uppers depending on if you have a 67-68 or a 69-72. The hole is definitely much larger, so I will probably have to come up with something different as a sleeve. I may be able to use some rubber hose in there in some way. Have to give it some thought once I dissect the bed this summer. No time now, but thought I'd snatch these up while I could still get some.
The 73-80 blazer mounts look to be slightly smaller maybe, but have the smaller hole. No idea on thickness, but maybe Harmon's would give you a dimension of you contacted them.

As it looks, the raised rubber flange on these 67-72 mounts probably fits in a hole on the frame which is larger than the 60-66 frames, so this will probably need trimmed off. Then I could just insert a 1" rubber hose in there to make up the difference. The inner metal tubular sleeve might be a slight issue, but I'm not quite sure on it's length/depth and what purpose it served. I don't imagine you would want a metal sleeve sandwiched between the metal plates that the rubbers are molded to, because if you had them in there like that, and not floating, then you would have a rigid mount with a large block of rubber around it. So I think Maybe the rubber hose with a metal sleeve in the middle section of it where it goes through the frame might be enough.

Gotta run to Napa asap and pick up my rear engine (bellhousing) mounts that are in , $7 each! Also a front wheel cylinder. Can't believe how much they have in stock in their local warehouse, being that those wheel cylinders were last used on a 1963 front drum brake truck! wow. RockAuto.com was so cheap though that they were the same price before tax with next day express shipping.

EDIT - no time to re-read the rest here at the moment, but maybe the metal sleeves are only in the bottom mount? And then they protrude enough into the upper mount to firmly locate the raised rubber section between the inside of the frame hole and the bolt??? This makes sense to me now. I can make this work no problem. Just need some rubber hose and replace some missing sleeves with some similar tubing or pipe.

[Chuck78]

much to my surprise, I went out in the rain and looked, and the two sets of bushings to the front actually share the same large frame hole as the new ones I just got. The one I was measuring from was one of the two sets that sits over the frame mounted gas tank, and this one is the smaller dimension hole that I gave. My truck is a 62. Maybe they were different for 60-62 panels as well? Lewis stated to Ron that he gave dimensions for the 64-66. Sorry for so many posts. When I get this all figured out, I'll post back with results or more info.

Also, picked up my rear engine mounts (under bellhousing to xmember) for my 62 manual trans truck, and noticed in the NAPA catalog part # 602-1041 in the engine, trans, etc mounting bushing section. This part # looks very similar to a suburban/panel bed mount, but none in stock to check dimensions. Used as upper motor mounts on ford trucks and transmission mounts in Cosworth Vegas, among other possible applications.

[RoyL]

Originally Posted by Chuck78

Wow, this guy just gained a customer here from his email response to me. This answers a lot! I asked if he had the thicker bed mounts that are about a half an inch, like what I need for my panel vs the 1/4" pads that I got apparently for a pickup application. This is what he said:

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Hi, Chuck
The 1960-72 Suburban / Panel truck body mounts were last available through GM up until about a year ago when the last available were finally sold. These are the mounts you need, and when new they are actually more like 3/4"-1" in thickness not a 1/2" and have a steel sleeve molded into the bottom cushion that is slightly taller than the cushion and the top cushion has a small depresion in it that the round steel sleeve fills when they are mounted and tightened. We have heard that there is a company having a manufacturer reproduce these and we expect them out sometime this year but it looks as though it will probably be late summer or sometime in fall at earliest before they become available.
Have a nice weekend!!!
My Very Best
Paul @ GMCPauls

Online Catalog- http://www.gmcpauls.com
GMCPauls Truck Parts
505 Adams Drive
Rockville, IN 47872
Fax: 773-442-0103
___________________

Contacted GMC Pauls to follow-up, here's an update:

On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:44 AM, GMCPauls Truck Parts <robbinspd1199@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi, Roy
To date only the 1967-72 Suburban / Panel body mounts have been made. The manufacturer has been satisfied with the demand but they still have not begun tooling up to make the 60-66 versions which are smaller in size as you are aware.
Sorry we couldn't help with this!!
My Very Best
Sky @ GMCPauls
Online Catalog- http://www.gmcpauls.com
GMCPauls Truck Parts
505 Adams Drive
Rockville, IN 47872
Fax: 773-442-0103
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