2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments

[SCIV]

Updates?

[BMERDOC]

I know, I know.. I'm trying to get the truck back to the shop. I've put some miles on it to get the springs settled. Parking is at a premium at work because of construction and with the holidays...well. I wanna swap the upper control arms side-to-side , Regrind the lowers and all that. I will be updating soon. I've been watching Robnolimit's thread for new ideas. I've got some catchin' up to do. Uuummm, look for something by the end of the week. I'll have something new.

[gringoloco]

Interested to see how the mods work out on the rack. Don't think I've seen it done 'scientifically'. Cool

[BMERDOC]

Originally Posted by gringoloco

Interested to see how the mods work out on the rack. Don't think I've seen it done 'scientifically'. Cool

Exactly the reason I started this thread. To explain with clear examples.
THIS IS IMPORTANT!!! The biggest thing that I have seen is that if you leave everything stock and dont modify anything the only thing you can do is balance both sides. That is to say that with no mods, pull all the shims, tighten everything down and equalize the angles so that you get the most from each angle. Other than that you will have to modify. More to come!

[SCIV]

Thanks Doc.

I have a new front end kit, steering box, rag joint, idler, pitman, shafts, etc (you get the idea), and I am ready to get it aligned!

Thanks for all your time & effort you have put into this.

[oldgold70c10]

This thread is awesome!

I shifted both of my upper a-arms about 1/4" aft on their shafts in an effort to get more caster without going crazy on the shims. I did this when I converted to power steering, as the truck felt absolutely scary to drive with the stock alignment settings. After my tweaking, I had it aligned. That was back in '08. Reading this thread, I see the need for a re-alignment!

[SCIV]

Another bump for those *im*patiently waiting!!!?!?!?!!

[BMERDOC]

Jiminy Christmas!!! Sorry Guys! I can't apologize enough! The truck is waiting on me too. I've been so busy with other stuff that I haven't been able to get back to it. I promise, I promise in the next coupla days I'll bring the truck in and add to the thread!

[SCIV]

LOL, no worries!! I just thought I missed something.

[usmcchevy]

Subscribing and Thanks for doing this!!! I have a fully rebuilt suspension that needs a good alignment.

[Hart_Rod]

Great info!

[BMERDOC]

For you guys wanting to know (SCIV?) I finally got the truck back to work! I will be bringing it in just as soon as I finish work and the garage door people finish fixing the back door. I'll report later tonight!

[VA72C10]

cool!

[SCIV]

AWESOME!

Haha...I don't know if it is good to be "that guy" or not??!?!??

At any rate, I have the week after Christmas off, so I will have time on my hands for a cam swap, new suspension, alignment & MORE BOOST!!

[Greywolf200]

Alignment 101......Gonna show my ignorance here, let's say we're talking about the left UCA. Adding shims to both screws will increase positive camber? Removing shims from both screws with increase negative camber? Adding shims to the front screw or removing shims from the rear screw will increase negative caster? Is this the way it works? Would like to not sound so ignorant when talking to the tech.

Thanks,

[BMERDOC]

Just peaking in...I'm swapping upper arms at the moment. Just looking at them I know it will increase caster but I'm a little concerned with ball joint bind.
Greywolf200, I'll look at your post a little closer when I get home.

[BMERDOC]

Greywolf200, you are completely correct!

[BMERDOC]

OK, so the truck has been lowered three inches in the front using CPP springs. It has been driven and it has settled so I figured it would be best to start off with a fresh spec sheet. So I get the truck on the alignment rack, correct the tire pressures, install the heads and....the alignment computer is dead!!! Woulda been nice if someone who knew told me. I wonder if anyone let me do that for a laugh? Oh well, I'll use the rack in the front shop!!! So I break down the equipment and take it up front. The heads didn't like my old wagon wheels so I had to be extra careful to mount them properly. I get my first specs and wouldn't you know! Now thats something we can work with! Looking at my numbers it looks like I would just have to shim the right front upper. The machine would crunch the numbers to tell me what shim I would need but by shimming on the right front I would lose a little camber to equal -.5 camber and add a little caster to get closer to the 4.2. Remember, lookin at the numbers now there is a .7 cross caster and the truck would want to drift left.

Again, if your truck does not have a modified suspension it is best that you remove all shims before the alignment and shim it so that you get the most out of each angle

[BMERDOC]

Notice rear thrust and total toe? Dang! Looks like I'll have to live with it for a minute for the sake of concentrating on front caster and camber. Pay no attention to the colors, only look at the numbers. I can change the specs so that it will show green if you like. Front toe was on the outer tolerances but again I'm only concerned about the two Cs at the moment.

So I got my specs and took the truck over to my lift to swap upper arms. I measured the length from the rearmost part of my wheel to the rear of the wheel opening and found 10". After swapping the arms I measured again and got 9.5". Just by looking at the arms it is apparent that it will help caster and the way they swap the upper arm now tilts back. I felt good about a centrally located upper bj but the lower still concern me. If you wanna get more camber and don't mind the .5" setback the upper arm swap looks to be fine. If you still want form then notch the lower. I ran outta time because of my Alignment machine hassles but now that the truck is at work and I've already swapped the arms I'll get back on the rack tomorrow night. Here are some pics.

[gringoloco]

Nice caster numbers- I could only get ~3*... Interested to see what tomorrow's alignment brings. Any binding issues with the upper ball joints? This is cool

[BMERDOC]

Originally Posted by gringoloco

Nice caster numbers- I could only get ~3*... Interested to see what tomorrow's alignment brings. Any binding issues with the upper ball joints? This is cool

What were your mods at 3(we need the info)? If you look back my stock alignment I was just barely over three degrees. Look at the pics the swap
picks you can see how the spindle was REALLY tilted back but the swapped arm nicely tilted back so as to make a nice centerline through the bj (draw a line through the zerk fitting and down the spindle). Its the lower I'm worried about. The angle looks ok now but I'm concerned bout cycling. BTW, the lower arm is flat and the centerlink/tirerods are nice and flat so I'm not really concerned with bumpsteer

[BMERDOC]

Originally Posted by gringoloco

Any binding issues with the upper ball joints?

Having reviewed the pics the zerk fitting/spindle center line isnt as as close as I thought. Note the tire is off and the suspension in dangling. I'll have to look closer at ride height.

[gringoloco]

3" drop spindles/3" drop springs. Ended up with 2.7*, I think. Been a while and I don't have the print out. I told the tech to hook me up with as much caster as he could muster and that's where we landed...

I've seen people flip the uppers upside-down; don't know if that would help with angles.

[BMERDOC]

Ok. I had time to tinker so after swapping the upper control arms side to side. Here are the results. I think this debunks the thought that the uppers can be swapped. Yes, the caster is excessive and could be brought to 8 or 9 degrees by adding about 9/16" to 5/8" thick shims to the rear but the camber is already positive and can't be remedied. Time to swap the uppers back and notch the lowers....

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by BMERDOC

Ok. I had time to tinker so after swapping the upper control arms side to side. Here are the results. I think this debunks the thought that the uppers can be swapped. Yes, the caster is excessive and could be brought to 8 or 9 degrees by adding about 9/16" to 5/8" thick shims to the rear but the camber is already positive and can't be remedied. Time to swap the uppers back and notch the lowers....

Interesting.... I wonder what the results will be w/the lowers shifted forward. How much do you plan to move them for the testing?

Also, possible cures for the upper arm cross-flip issue: narrow the upper arms 1" or maybe some of those Moog 'problem-solver' off-set upper a-arm shafts??