Steering coupler or Rag joint

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

You have to melt the plastic bushing out first. There are several threads about how to do this. I used a propane torch. Once it begins to ooze out, just pull it apart. DONT breath the fumes. Once it cools (may need a little cleaning out) it will telescope to the needed length. Add a little grease to keep it from seizing. There are videos in YouTube.

Yes sir. I read up on the collapsing portion of the install & watched a couple YT videos.

Just checking to make sure my process was following the same path concerning whether the 'binding agent' used between the 2 halves of the shaft needed to be completely melted/removed or if you were just minimizing the heat just enough to collapse/expand for the install. The videos I watched showed both approaches.

I'll prob melt the binding agent out as much as possible & clean up each half to allow easier assembly/testing for the final install alignment. Once that's all verified, I'll prep it for final install to finish things up.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by JHILDE

SCOTI, it looks like there is a 14:1 straight ratio box (instead of the 16/13:1 variable) coming out soon for our trucks from AGR (Ft. Worth). That with a Borgeson shaft should provide a decent feel and steering.

Interesting. I was never sure if the HD trucks used a different box vs. half ton trucks. Might be worth investigating those. The only ones I knew about (for HD trucks) was the Red Head steering boxes. That being said, I never really had any complaints on the feel of the OE box/gearing. It's not too easy nor too heavy. With the added caster I have dialed in, it feels pretty neutral when cruising down the road.

The rag joint failure @ <7k miles was my concern. I know my box leaks; and that fluid prob soaked the rubber material accelerating its demise but that was still way too easy & soon for it to come apart like it did.

[JHILDE]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Interesting. I was never sure if the HD trucks used a different box vs. half ton trucks. Might be worth investigating those. The only ones I knew about (for HD trucks) was the Red Head steering boxes. That being said, I never really had any complaints on the feel of the OE box/gearing. It's not too easy nor too heavy. With the added caster I have dialed in, it feels pretty neutral when cruising down the road.

The rag joint failure @ <7k miles was my concern. I know my box leaks; and that fluid prob soaked the rubber material accelerating its demise but that was still way too easy & soon for it to come apart like it did.

From talking to AGR the easy/heavy is more due to the port size, not the ratio. The 14:1 ratio just picks up some steering feel from anything other than straight/centered.

My box is leaking, well worn, and my rag is bad. When I drop it and get some sticky tires on the front I'm asking for problems If I don't make some changes.

[SCOTI]

Cooked the binding agent (plastic, glue, ??) out today w/no problem. Tomorrow I'll work on the install. I needed an assistant for the work as I'm replacing the driver side rubber brake line while I'm in the wheel-well.

[SunSoaked]

Looks good. It's worth the effort.

[SCOTI]

I wasn't able to get to it as my assistant had other plans. I picked up my brake line & 2 other small pieces of hardware I needed to swap out (all while I'm in the well to replace the steering shaft).

Plan is to get things together tonight & determine the finishing touches for the install. Until then, here's an image of the 'post melt-out' glue/binding agent from the manufacturing process:

[SunSoaked]

Wow, yours came apart much cleaner than mine. Mine was an oozing, popping, snarling mess.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

Wow, yours came apart much cleaner than mine. Mine was an oozing, popping, snarling mess.

Yes sir. I did the process outdoors expecting a nasty, fume-heavy experience. In actuality, there was little to no smoke & no smell that that could be detected (I was outdoors though). I chalk it up to advancements in binding-agent technology.

I clamped a pickle fork into a vice on the ground, clamped the column end of the new XJ shaft to the handle, & heated about a 4" length of the shaft where the 2 halves met. After a few mins, I was able to easily pull the box end of the shaft apart from the column end. I tried wiping off the residual 'glue' but it didn't like that & basically kind of smeared. So I grabbed a hard metal scraper & w/a couple of hard hits it sliced through & fell off.

The binding material definitely feels like some sort of plastic.

[SCOTI]

Got the new XJ shaft installed today. Still need some follow-up stuff as my hardware selection failed so I used the supplied 'black oxide' stuff for now.

It was too dark for pics so I'll post some up tomorrow. Initial feel is good.

[SCOTI]

I picked up some new hardware today. My standard MO is to replace black oxide hardware w/stainless if/when possible. I purchased some SS M8 bolts for this project but they wanted to gall when passing over the shafts @ each end.

So I dropped down a size (now 1/4") to allow easily passing the threaded end of the hardware through. They are now being secured w/a locknut on the end of the bolts vs. relying on the metric threads @ the shaft ends. I put the 1/4" bolt in place & couldn't pull the ends off so that works for me & is easier for servicing.

I drilled through the larger/outer portion of the of the new shaft. I figured I would provide a way to 're-bind' the 2 halves should I decide it's necessary. I played around w/a couple ideas & hot-melt glue would most likely be the binding agent if I decide to do that. For now I just have some plastic plugs over the holes.

[SunSoaked]

If you have access to a welder...?
I plan on tack welding a nut over that hole and using a setscrew with thread locker. The only purpose of the plastic inside was to keep it tight and from rattling while still allowing it to collapse in a front end collision and making you a shiskebob.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

If you have access to a welder...?
I plan on tack welding a nut over that hole and using a setscrew with thread locker. The only purpose of the plastic inside was to keep it tight and from rattling while still allowing it to collapse in a front end collision and making you a shiskebob.

I considered welding a nut & doing the set-screw. But, after installation, it seems as tight/tighter the the original set-up so I skipped it. Same logic on the binding agent. Seems fine w/o it. I'll revisit it later if something comes up I don't like.

[SCOTI]

I have a couple questions on your install.

- Once you have the shafts installed, did you not find it necessary to install a bolt through the two shafts to rebound them?

- Because you went from a M8 to 1/4” hardware did you not have to file down any of the shafts?

I was asked this question via PM so I thought I would share this info in case anyone alse wondered.... I drilled through the outer portion of the collapsible shaft (Yellow circle). When the inner portion (gear box end) slides inside, the holes are centered on the shaft where it's notched by the manufacturer & where the binding agent originally went (Yellow lines). If I choose to bind them w/a glue, this is where it would happen. I'll give it more miles before making that decision.

I also have considered incorporating a set-screw arrangement to keep the shaft halves more solid while still allowing the ability to collapse upon impact. If you did a set screw, you would want it closer to the end of the outer shaft (White circle & X). That way upon impact, the inner shaft can still slide inside the outer w/o that notched area coming into contact.

I'll likely do one method or the other for re-binding the 2 halves if I feel it necessary. The set-screw is the better/easier choice for future removal for whatever reason as it can simply be unscrewed & the 2 halves will easily slide apart vs. having to re-melt glue to get them apart.

I did use the smaller hardware to eliminate the need to file the gear-box & column end stubs down (to allow the hardware to easily slide across the stub). The smaller threaded end of the SAE SS hardware easily passed through the metric tapped portion of the clamps. The slightly fatter shank of the SAE hardware helped fill the notch area @ the gear box end despite being a smaller diameter bolt (I couldn't pull the gear-box side of the shaft off by hand w/the 1/4" hardware loosely in place). It's possible you could force it off if you tried hard enough I suppose. Hopefully this makes sense.

[focusedontheprize]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

I was asked this question via PM so I thought I would share this info in case anyone alse wondered.... I drilled through the outer portion of the collapsible shaft (Yellow circle). When the inner portion (gear box end) slides inside, the holes are centered on the shaft where it's notched by the manufacturer & where the binding agent originally went (Yellow lines). If I choose to bind them w/a glue, this is where it would happen. I'll give it more miles before making that decision.

I also have considered incorporating a set-screw arrangement to keep the shaft halves more solid while still allowing the ability to collapse upon impact. If you did a set screw, you would want it closer to the end of the outer shaft (White circle & X). That way upon impact, the inner shaft can still slide inside the outer w/o that notched area coming into contact.

I'll likely do one method or the other for re-binding the 2 halves if I feel it necessary. The set-screw is the better/easier choice for future removal for whatever reason as it can simply be unscrewed & the 2 halves will easily slide apart vs. having to re-melt glue to get them apart.

I did use the smaller hardware to eliminate the need to file the gear-box & column end stubs down (to allow the hardware to easily slide across the stub). The smaller threaded end of the SAE SS hardware easily passed through the metric tapped portion of the clamps. The slightly fatter shank of the SAE hardware helped fill the notch area @ the gear box end despite being a smaller diameter bolt (I couldn't pull the gear-box side of the shaft off by hand w/the 1/4" hardware loosely in place). It's possible you could force it off if you tried hard enough I suppose. Hopefully this makes sense.

Thanks SCOTI (I was the one who asked the questions via PM). This does make a lot of sense and the pictures help tremendously. I am not really interesting going down the glue route if I don’t have to (due to the set screw allowing you to service the shaft), however I want to make sure the column will still collapse in the event of an accident.

I may run them loose for the time being (as you have them setup) and then will decide the next steps from there.

I may have missed it as I do see you calling out you drilled through the outer shaft, but wanted to confirm you did not drill through the inner shaft and that is just a black sharpie mark to use as a guide to line everything up when sliding the shafts together.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by focusedontheprize

Thanks SCOTI (I was the one who asked the questions via PM). This does make a lot of sense and the pictures help tremendously. I am not really interesting going down the glue route if I don’t have to (due to the set screw allowing you to service the shaft), however I want to make sure the column will still collapse in the event of an accident.

I may run them loose for the time being (as you have them setup) and then will decide the next steps from there.

I may have missed it as I do see you calling out you drilled through the outer shaft, but wanted to confirm you did not drill through the inner shaft and that is just a black sharpie mark to use as a guide to line everything up when sliding the shafts together.

Correct.... I drilled through the outer shaft only. The Sharpie reference mark was only for checking alignment.

[focusedontheprize]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Correct.... I drilled through the outer shaft only. The Sharpie reference mark was only for checking alignment.

Just to close the loop on this. With the phenomenal tutorial from SCOTI, I also installed this upgrade in Dixie. Same procedure - melted out the glue agent in between with mapp gas. I end up tapping the outer shaft and put a set screw in to keep everything tight and serviceable. Once I finish trial running it and confirm everything is good - I am going to repaint the shaft. I drove it all last weekend and could tell it tightened everything up.

[rodstored-72]

I am looking at doing this on my '86. If I understand right, I need to get a '84-'96 jeep cherokee xj steering shaft? "melt" the plastic from inside (about an inch inside from the "slip joint" area? install a set screw to "lock" the 2 pieces from movement (other than in accident)?

thanks!!

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by rodstored-72

I am looking at doing this on my '86. If I understand right, I need to get a '84-'96 jeep cherokee xj steering shaft? "melt" the plastic from inside (about an inch inside from the "slip joint" area? install a set screw to "lock" the 2 pieces from movement (other than in accident)?

thanks!!

Correct.

[rodstored-72]

all, so I ordered this(https://www.summitracing.com/parts/CWA-52078556) shaft and received it this weekend. I removed my old shaft and cleaned each end up. I did a "dry" fit tonight (no modification) to the jeep shaft. it appears to be about an 3/4" too long. it is so tempting to try to force it on.... . so I guess my next step is to torch (melt) the inside rubber/plastic) to separate the pieces? I do wanna ask what the set screw is for? is it to "lock" the pieces once installed? follow up is I guess that the outer piece is thick enough to grab a set screw?

thanks again for the responses....

[SunSoaked]

As you know the shaft has a inner and outer sleeve that permits the slip fit. If I recall the overlap of those shafts was quite generous like 6-8 inches. The length is set by the plastic that is injected at the factory. You have to melt that plastic to allow for length adjustment.
The setscrew is what takes the function of the missing plastic. Although it won't really fix the length it keeps the two pieces from rattling and getting loose and sloppy. I never did this with mine and it's nice and tight but, it will loosen up with time. I will spot weld a nut to the outer shaft over a 1/4" hole so I can install a short bolt. I doubt there's enough meat on the outer shaft to hold a setscrew by itself. You don't want it going thru both shafts preventing it from collapsing in an accident.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

As you know the shaft has a inner and outer sleeve that permits the slip fit. If I recall the overlap of those shafts was quite generous like 6-8 inches. The length is set by the plastic that is injected at the factory. You have to melt that plastic to allow for length adjustment.
The setscrew is what takes the function of the missing plastic. Although it won't really fix the length it keeps the two pieces from rattling and getting loose and sloppy. I never did this with mine and it's nice and tight but, it will loosen up with time. I will spot weld a nut to the outer shaft over a 1/4" hole so I can install a short bolt. I doubt there's enough meat on the outer shaft to hold a setscrew by itself. You don't want it going thru both shafts preventing it from collapsing in an accident.

Or... You could, but would need to use a plastic/nylon 'bolt' that would simply shear off in the event of a forceful impact that required the steering to collapse.

[rodstored-72]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Or... You could, but would need to use a plastic/nylon 'bolt' that would simply shear off in the event of a forceful impact that required the steering to collapse.

I like this idea.. although I might wonder about engine "heat" making the plastic "brittle" over time - especially here is the valley of the sun!!

the nut on the outer shaft is a good thought as well - although I am not sure if I would be willing to trust my welding skills to make it "for sure" secure...

either way i know now that the next thing for tonight is to melt the plastic

thanks guys!!!

[TK1636]

Don't mean to open a dead post, but i am very interested in doing this with my truck. Just wondering if it would work for a 1968 4 speed column. I was thinking of using this but not sure if this is the same as what everybody else used.
https://www.amazon.com/labwork-Unive...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by TK1636

Don't mean to open a dead post, but i am very interested in doing this with my truck. Just wondering if it would work for a 1968 4 speed column. I was thinking of using this but not sure if this is the same as what everybody else used.
https://www.amazon.com/labwork-Unive...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

It's not a dead post if it helps someone. The info is here just for others that come along after so no need to apologize. It's still a good option that helps tighten up the steering 'play' between the column & the gear-box.

I'm not sure on the compatibility between the ends for a '68 4spd standard column though. That will take some researching to accurately know unless someone chimes in that has done a similar truck set-up.

[franken]

Don't quote me but I think it works on 73 and up, but not 67-72.
Those old Jeeps are always in the pick a part around here--I wouldn't buy a new one.