Keeping them stock

[Jack Guzman]

I check out stovebolt,but I like this place. Lots of information. Lots of knowledgable people. And lots of pictures. It is fascinating how some of these rides posted here are built. I am a motorhead at heart. I prefer to keep my ride primitive but I always look under the hood at a car show. ---Jack

[curmudgeon]

"I prefer to keep my ride primitive but I always look under the hood at a car show"

And if you look at enough Advance Design trucks at shows you would think that IFS and sbc's were a factory option in the 50's.

[Speedbumpauto]

This would make me possibly go non stock, although it was available in 58 in some models, but the guy said we have to put it back in the Model A and keep it stock.

[Indian113]

Boy I would love to put that wedge in my Model A

[Dan in Pasadena]

348 or 409?

I "helped" - I was a kid - my Dad swap the 235 out of his '59 Fleetside long bed for a sweet running 283, then later he put a 348 and that thing ran like a scalded cat.

I THINK I saw his truck for sale in SoCal a couple years ago in a Craigslist ad but of course I didn't have the money to buy it or I would have for sure. I'm still kicking myself for not having followed up on that ad but it was out in Hemet. I don't think there were too many '59 Chevy long bed Fleetsides in light gray over the original blue!!

[Speedbumpauto]

It's a 348. I'm not a huge fan cuz they,re expensive to build for the power they make these days but they sure look sweet when done up right. Hopefully I'll fire it tomorrow for run in then send over to the model A. Crusing weather is just around the corner here in so. AZ.

[19SLAMPALA61]

I am in the process of getting a 56 cameo project. I Plan on selling it when I'm finished bc I'm currently building another 56 for myself .. it's a original v8 truck and has the Hydra matic column in it. The motor and trans are gone. My question is for resale purposes do I restore it back to stock or update the suspension and drive train?

[gale]

Either way is an exercise in futility if your goal is to make a profit.

To keep it stock it needs to be pure through and through and preferably come with a lot of documentation like original sales receipt, etc. A "barn find" is worth a lot more if it runs.

Start changing the truck and there is no stopping point. Find some build threads on this forum and pick one you really like. Then ask the builder if he has any idea of how much he has invested. One owner offered that he quit counting at $7,000 just for his interior.

You can have a lot of fun and learn a lot so you can chalk up the expense to entertainment and education.

Of course you could aim for the distinction in your signature "home of the million dollar Chevy truck."

[speesh]

There are a lot of factors involved, including the age of the owner, condition of the truck, driver's experience with old trucks, and much more. If you are used to driving new Cadillacs, an old truck will scare the heck out of you when it shakes, rattles and rolls down the road. If you drive on L.A. freeways, a 235 and drum brakes are probably not a good idea. On the other hand, if you live in a small town in the desert like me, it's not a problem. I drive six miles to work, never over 45 mph.
It boils down to personal freedom and whatever you want. That, to me, is the whole point of this hobby!

[MARTINSR]

I really need to say it again, there is NO DIFFERENCE WHAT SO EVER driving a car with drum brakes in todays traffic. The simple fact is, you leave more room. That is all it takes and you SHOULD be leaving more room anyway being a 2014 Corvette or a 1950 Ford with drums.

I am in the collision repair business. I remember standing around with a few other shop owners in the paint store crying the blues with ABS came out like there wouldn't be any more accidents, our business would be over. LOLOLOLOLOL LOLOLOLOLOL People WILL FIND A WAY to crash, and how have they, very simple they drive closer. Go down the free way and look at how people will be ONE car length from the car in front of them at 65 mph! ONE CAR LENGTH! I work at a large bodyshop with about a hundred collisions a month being repaired. Rear enders are the most common by FAR. How could this be happening with the modern car and the far superior brakes? It's simple, people have simply adapted to driving to the LIMIT of their brakes. One glance to the girl in the car next to you or to your text message or to your radio dial and WHAM you are rear ending the car in front of you.

I have taken a good deal of time over the last few years studying driving habits and how they effect arrival time, that sort of thing. These studies have opened my eyes more than you can imagine. More than I ever imagined, I am COMPLETELY different when I drive than before these studies. We have such a twisted image of time, it's so distorted it is fascinating. I now watch others driving the way I did and laugh, literally laugh while I am driving as I watch some guy going in and out of lanes to end up 12 seconds ahead of me as he leaves the highway. Or sitting beside him at the every stop light, one after another. I am leaving a bunch of room totally and completely relaxed listening to my music, looking at the beautiful clouds, totally relaxed (even if I am late somewhere) and sit right next to that wrung out poor bugger at the stop light.

LEAVE MORE ROOM, now mind you, I did NOT say to go slower, you pace the other cars, with 10 car lengths in front of you. Just leave more room!

Brian

[mikec4193]

I gotta tell you guys...a stock 4 cylinder Willys Jeep is one of the slowest vehicles known to man...I know..I tried to drive one to work...I did it 3 times...scariest time I have every had behind the wheel of a motor vehicle...I parked it...
My next wont be stock that's for sure.....they don't fit in with the flow of traffic...at least not in upstate NY they don't...
Next one will be a AD style truck but something that stops ok and will run along at 55 MPH...a must to be able to enjoy the ride around here...

MikeC

[70gmcjimmy]

Originally Posted by speesh

There are a lot of factors involved, including the age of the owner, condition of the truck, driver's experience with old trucks, and much more. If you are used to driving new Cadillacs, an old truck will scare the heck out of you when it shakes, rattles and rolls down the road. If you drive on L.A. freeways, a 235 and drum brakes are probably not a good idea. On the other hand, if you live in a small town in the desert like me, it's not a problem. I drive six miles to work, never over 45 mph.
It boils down to personal freedom and whatever you want. That, to me, is the whole point of this hobby!

Can't say it much better than that! My wife and I love driving the '55 GMC with armstrong steering, manual drum brakes, granny 4 speed, truck ride and all. She can wheel it with the best of 'em. It goes down the highway 65 mph just fine.

For me when I drive the '55 (which I do almost daily) I want to go back to 1955. When I drive my '70 GMC Jimmy (which also has 4 wheel drum brakes) I want to go back to 1971 when I got my first drivers license in it. If I were to modernized these trucks, that time machine effect would be gone. I don't care if they take us to car shows or rod runs. I just want them to take us back in time for awhile!

DAC

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by mikec4193

I gotta tell you guys...a stock 4 cylinder Willys Jeep is one of the slowest vehicles known to man...I know..I tried to drive one to work...I did it 3 times...scariest time I have every had behind the wheel of a motor vehicle...I parked it...
My next wont be stock that's for sure.....they don't fit in with the flow of traffic...at least not in upstate NY they don't...
Next one will be a AD style truck but something that stops ok and will run along at 55 MPH...a must to be able to enjoy the ride around here...

MikeC

I'm with you that a 4 cyl Willy's is pretty underpowered. I could probably blow your doors off with my Rambler and it's pretty damn anemic. But listen, hopping out onto a freeway where people are going 65-70 in the slow lane is pretty tough. I still drive my Rambler on the freeway once in a while and drive in the slow lane and don't have a problem.

I can't say it enough, it's how YOU drive that matters, not the rest of the brain dead bumper chasers who don't have a clue. I can't say it enough, I have been driving my Rambler with tiny drum brakes and a 90 hp 196 ci flathead and I don't have a hint of a problem. Now, am I getting on the interstate and drive 100 miles, nope. But I sure did when I had my 65 Skylark with drums. I drove it 700 miles up into Oregon on a regular basis, all with drums and the original 300 Buick motor. I did upgrade it with a TH350. But my Rambler, I drive it thru town 90% of the time but I get on the freeway once in a while. I drive the slow lane and leave lots of room.

I can't make this clear enough, we humans in the 21st century have a seriously twisted image of time. Driving 10 or 20 car lengths behind the car in front of you is NOT driving slower, you are pacing that car, you are NOT holding anyone back or any BS like that. Once you start driving this way you just can't believe you were once so stupid about this! I will think about it often still, even after a few years driving like this and watching everyone who doesn't get it driving around me. I will think about it, how in the living hell did I not see this before? How can something SO OBVIOUS be missed by so many?

You don't need to drive slower, you just need to leave more room.

Brian

[imjeff]

I like stockers, but I like customs, too. I don't buy the "can't be fixed at home" stuff. I work on my modern rides just like my old ones. Code reader and hand tools. With the internet, forums and YouTube it's probably easier to fix my wife's Tahoe than any of my old iron. I don't take anything to someone else except front end alignments, occasional exhaust work and tires. It's always been more satisfying for me to gain the knowledge and buy the tools than to have to say "yeah, Joe Blow did that for me". Disc brakes weren't original, but I do like stopping versus body work!

Jeff

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by 70gmcjimmy

Can't say it much better than that! My wife and I love driving the '55 GMC with armstrong steering, manual drum brakes, granny 4 speed, truck ride and all. She can wheel it with the best of 'em. It goes down the highway 65 mph just fine.

For me when I drive the '55 (which I do almost daily) I want to go back to 1955. When I drive my '70 GMC Jimmy (which also has 4 wheel drum brakes) I want to go back to 1971 when I got my first drivers license in it. If I were to modernized these trucks, that time machine effect would be gone. I don't care if they take us to car shows or rod runs. I just want them to take us back in time for awhile!

DAC

We are brothers from different mothers! I will pat the dash on my Rambler (her name is Marge) and thank her for giving me the wonderful blessing of taking me to work and home everyday. Now mind you, I have a chopped and sectioned AD pickup, I drove it for years with a MID ENGINE Buick 401, with the carburetor between the seats. I am not a "prude" restorer I LOVE customs, I LOVE hotrods, but every car or truck doesn't need to be modified. Or heavily modified, it is just simply a myth that you can't drive these cars on the "Modern" roads.

The ONLY mods on my Rambler (I even ride on bias ply white walls) was a buzzer so I wouldn't leave the lights on by mistake being I drive it with them on at all times. That and the reflector upgrades I did to the tail lamps, that was it.......until last week. I put a funky little stereo in it hidden away along with the speakers. And one of the reasons I did was so that I could listen to old music in it, got the Doors in there right now. But the AM radio I have been listening to the last 2.5 years went on the blink for a few weeks and I was missing all my Giants spring training stuff, I HAD to do something!

Anyway, that is it, that's all I have done and I drive it every single day, EVERY single day. I am about to go out and hop in it to go to the store right now.



Click on the photo above or this link to see the video.
http://s200.photobucket.com/user/Bas...F1003.mp4.html

And another video of getting on the freeway.



http://s200.photobucket.com/user/Bas...F0804.mp4.html

Just drive-um baby just drive them. If you are REALLY in a position you need to modify it, you are going to pull a trailer or you REALLY need more power or brakes, do it, you have the power to modify it anyway needed to full fill your expectations and needs. But for goodness sakes you don't HAVE to modify it.

Brian

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by imjeff

I like stockers, but I like customs, too. I don't buy the "can't be fixed at home" stuff. I work on my modern rides just like my old ones. Code reader and hand tools. With the internet, forums and YouTube it's probably easier to fix my wife's Tahoe than any of my old iron. I don't take anything to someone else except front end alignments, occasional exhaust work and tires. It's always been more satisfying for me to gain the knowledge and buy the tools than to have to say "yeah, Joe Blow did that for me". Disc brakes weren't original, but I do like stopping versus body work!

Jeff

It's amazing what we can do with the info found on the net isn't it! I changed the hard drive in the MAC I am on right now. I had never done anything like that, NEVER, never even opened up a computer before, swapped out the hard drive on my dining table.

Brian

[focusedontheprize]

I will throw my two cents in...

I am 28 years old and have done 3 cars next to my father. I even drove a '72 Challenger through senior year of high school with manual drum brakes and no power steering. I loved every second of it.

My '49 3100 has disc brake front and rear. It has a T5 in it behind my 292. However, I am running Sid's drop axle and the original front end suspension. Why? Simplicity. I love it. It is an incredible thing and I am thrilled with it.

I grew up with the luxuries, but in my mind I wanted to go back to where it started. The originals.

This is why I love this board - you have guys like NEWFISHER who daily drives a beautiful straight axle Burb and loves every second of it. Then you have guys like Shannon (xpickup) and STOCKISH who build these things to the limits and it blows your mind. In the end, whether they cut them up or put them to stock everyone has the same love for them. That's why this is such a learning forum.

Honestly, I already have plans for the next AD. It will have IFS and IRS and it will sit next to my straight axle - the one that started it all.

I am very happy I found this board because it is unlike any other ones I belong to.

[dicer]

Stock or mod? The only mod's needed to these old trucks are safety related. And only do mod's that don't ruin parts that will be unobtainable such as frames, there is no one repopping them. A dual master cylinder can be installed at the stock mount point.

Oh and here is what a wrecked factory stock original unmolested truck will sell for,
goes to show you its best not to cut it up, just bend it a bit. LOL
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2...ction-auction/

[Speedbumpauto]

I'll defer to the quote passed down to me. "Anyone can restore a vehicle, it takes a real man to cut one up."

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by Speedbumpauto

I'll defer to the quote passed down to me. "Anyone can restore a vehicle, it takes a real man to cut one up."

LOL, I use to say that often too. I now have a little different slant on it, because being man enough to drive a '59 Rambler American with little white walls on it is a lot tougher. I mean, I must have no "manly" issues to do that right? LOL

No, really, it takes skills to restore and it takes skills to rod. It sure as hell takes a PILE of skills to put the wrong frame under the truck! OH HELL YES it takes a friggin train load of skills and passion to put a late model frame under one of these trucks! Anyone who does it, they have all my respect for their skills that is damn sure!

But those same skills and passion is needed to make the old parts work too. To hunt down parts, to rebuild a worn out 235 is a HELL of a lot harder than bolting in a crate 350. The work involved the battles finding parts and finding a machine shop that knows anything about anything other than a small block isn't easy.

But yes, cutting them up is fun too, as long as we have educated ourselves in what WE really want and need and not following the sheep to the wolves den.



Brian

[mr57]

My truck has the original 261 in it, with the three speed on the tree, original suspension and brakes, 3.90 gears, and at close to highway speed, the pistons sound like they want to start changing holes. After two summers of dealing with a weepy master cylinder,I think I will be upgrading to a newer dual chamber master and correcting the factory brake line routing. I also have a 5 speed that I have been threatening to put in for three years now. The Department of War and Finance has a nice Camaro ragtop now and I would like to keep up with her on the highway.

I left the original drivetrain intact because everything worked so well, but now the brakes need looking at, so time for an upgrade - for safety's sake - and while it's apart the tranny might get changed - for convenience sake - but the six will stay - because everyone has a V-8, but maybe straight pipes, and chrome reverses, and dearched springs.....

[Speedbumpauto]

It might be the contrarian mind. When you work for "the man" for 30 years(military and education) you look for ways to express individuality in other areas. I injoy having things look stock on the outside, like my truck project, but love the tinkering. I have a Lincoln V-12 flathead with a crank already worn to the limit where you can no longer get bearings but I think it will clean up at early small block chevy which will necessitate some rods and while I'm doing it I might as well get some light pistons with a metric ring package(Mr.48 )......and you get the idea. But on the outside it will be stock looking and go in a trad A channeled highboy roadster, with red wire bigs 'n littles and a T-5. So I'm making the "hot rod lincoln."........maybe. By the way, who's cutting the glass for those quarter windows?

[70gmcjimmy]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

We are brothers from different mothers! I will pat the dash on my Rambler (her name is Marge) and thank her for giving me the wonderful blessing of taking me to work and home everyday. Now mind you, I have a chopped and sectioned AD pickup, I drove it for years with a MID ENGINE Buick 401, with the carburetor between the seats. I am not a "prude" restorer I LOVE customs, I LOVE hotrods, but every car or truck doesn't need to be modified. Or heavily modified, it is just simply a myth that you can't drive these cars on the "Modern" roads.

The ONLY mods on my Rambler (I even ride on bias ply white walls) was a buzzer so I wouldn't leave the lights on by mistake being I drive it with them on at all times. That and the reflector upgrades I did to the tail lamps, that was it.......until last week. I put a funky little stereo in it hidden away along with the speakers. And one of the reasons I did was so that I could listen to old music in it, got the Doors in there right now. But the AM radio I have been listening to the last 2.5 years went on the blink for a few weeks and I was missing all my Giants spring training stuff, I HAD to do something!

Anyway, that is it, that's all I have done and I drive it every single day, EVERY single day. I am about to go out and hop in it to go to the store right now.

Just drive-um baby just drive them. If you are REALLY in a position you need to modify it, you are going to pull a trailer or you REALLY need more power or brakes, do it, you have the power to modify it anyway needed to full fill your expectations and needs. But for goodness sakes you don't HAVE to modify it.

Brian

Yeah that's cool, I'd roll in that Rambler! I drove a '63 Classic 660 for about a year back in the early 70's. The fold down front seats were too cool!

My '55 GMC had been changed some years before I saved it from the crusher but the only real mods are a cd player as the dash was hacked anyway and I did put cheap radials on it for some highway driving last fall.

I dig the modified and customs too, but not really my bag to own yet. Maybe when I get a 60 or 61 GMC Suburban I will have my time machine wish list fulfilled then a hot rod truck may be in order!

The first pic is the "highly modified" mid-sixties 230 Chevy someone had put in my '55 GMC long before I found the truck. I actually did the Rustoleum modifications to this engine!-LOL

The second pic in one of my driving to work pics.

Thanks for your pics.

[62lwbc10]

This is an interesting topic. THere was a time not long ago that I really didnt care for modified trucks at all, and now I find myself spending thousands putting a 350 motor, TH 350, etc in my 58. LOL. I do really appreciate the stock trucks and all that goes into getting them that way, but I also appreciate some modern luxuries. At this point in time (maybe I will change again in the future) I like trucks that LOOK stock from an exterior and interior perspective, but have more modern suspensions, motors, trannys, etc. Im also not a fan of lowered trucks but thats just me!

I have to agree with the gentleman regarding the drum brakes. You wont hear me disagree that its better to have discs but I have been doing just fine with my drums and I actually drive pretty agressively. I do leave more room though, but I must admit I have been in some emergency situations and the drums have performed fine (as they did for everybody for decades before discs came along). I think if youre going to put a 400+HP big block in the truck and want to race it or whatever than maybe a brake system upgrade is in order.

[1project2many]

I really need to say it again, there is NO DIFFERENCE WHAT SO EVER driving a car with drum brakes in todays traffic.

Yes, there is. Yes, yes, yes. You cannot plan for every situation. Leaving more space does not guarantee you will not have problems. No matter how safe you are as a driver, you can be forced into a situation where you have to work to avoid an accident. I have been to 55 accidents this school year for drivers in my fleet, many of which involve safe drivers that are not at fault. The more miles you drive, the greater the odds that you will be in an accident. The more dangerous the intersections you pass through, the greater the odds you will be in an accident. The less safely the roads are being driven by other drivers, the greater the odds that you will be involved in a collision. Please stop assuming that because you have not been in an accident, the rules you believe are keeping you safe are correct for everyone.

I can't make this clear enough, we humans in the 21st century have a seriously twisted image of time. Driving 10 or 20 car lengths behind the car in front of you is NOT driving slower, you are pacing that car, you are NOT holding anyone back or any BS like that.

You cannot drive 10 or 20 carlengths behind another car on a congested east coast highway. 10 or 20 carlengths on a busy highway will quickly become occupied by 15-18 cars!!! As you continue to move back, the space will continue to be occupied by more cars. You will have to drive at less than highway speed in order to attempt to maintain the space you feel is safe. OTOH the drivers around you will be annoyed at best, angry most often, or even showing signs of true road rage at your complete lack of consideration for other drivers, the flow of traffic, and the fact that your perceived old, slow car is out on the road when others are trying to drive "normally" at 20-25 over posted speed limits with 3 or fewer carlengths between each other.

17 years ago the primary interstate through here was averaging 30,000 more cars per day than it was designed to carry. The road still isn't widened (although the project is in progress) but the amount of traffic has increased by another 30,000 cars per day. That's more than double the average designed capacity with weekends and holidays even higher! You cannot grasp the effects of traveling in those conditions every day on another driver's temperament and reactions unless you live through it. That video you posted? What was that... four or five lanes in the same direction? We put that many cars on two lanes! And when you restrict one lane by driving slower you force everyone who'd like to drive with traffic to go around you, at the speed of the slowest car that's passing you. I can promise that leaving 10-20 carlengths is not an insurance policy. On the wrong day it could even be a liability.

Combine other driver's attitudes with drinking, lack of vehicle maintenance, poor road condition, drivers ignoring rules, and other unexpected conditions and it's completely unreasonable to assume that you'll always maintain control of a vehicle and a situation to the point where you can avoid any accident. Add to this the potential for increased injury to passengers in an antique vehicle during a crash and it makes no sense to me to argue against making changes intended to increase safety and/or reduce risk.

I can't say it enough, it's how YOU drive that matters, not the rest of the brain dead bumper chasers who don't have a clue.

Are you really saying this? That you'll never have to respond to another driver's actions? That another driver will never put you in a situation where your car or truck might not respond well enough to prevent injury or an accident? Constantly driving at the limit of your vehicle's ability is stupid and we can both agree with that. But driving at the limit can include being where you shouldn't, when you shouldn't, regardless of your own attitude behind the wheel. So if you're consistently going to be in situations that tax the vehicle's limits, common sense and personal responsibility should drive you to improve the vehicle and increase your margin of safety.

I drive old vehicles in stock condition, on modern roads, with contemporary drivers. I understand and love them. But I will not become victim to a false security created solely by driving slower and leaving exorbitant amounts of space in a situation that's inherently unsafe for the vehicle I'm in. I'll choose a slower two lane over the interstate if traffic is too much for the vehicle. I'll stay off the road at times of the day (or night) when accidents are more likely to happen. I'll avoid busy downtown driving at times when other drivers have little patience. And if I find my vehicle consistently requires me to make substantial exceptions in driving, I will alter the vehicle to match the conditions that are creating a problem.

I agree with your opinion that old vehicles can remain stock and be driven daily. I agree that making major changes at the risk of making the vehicle unsafe or ruining it "just because" is unwarranted. I agree that in many cases the original equipment is sufficient. But I strongly disagree with the opinion that modifying a vehicle by increasing braking or handling ability should not be considered because maintaining greater distance to other cars and driving slower mitigates all risk.

I've said my piece so I won't weigh this discussion down with this argument again.

Have a nice day.