Questions about 1965 C20 front end drum to disc

[nelson-ohio]

Ok, I've been trying to see how to mount the steering linkage, have installed the new PS gear box, using the adaptor from Capt Fab, that part is working no problem. Bought a new PS gear box from Rock Auto, it's an after market that should fit 84 Chevy C20, which is the front end I got.

I centered the gear box by turning it half way of the L and R limit, and just loosely attached the linkage to the box. In order to attach the linkage to the box, I had to turn the passenger side tire slightly inward, which I guess is not a big deal since I can adjust the sleeve to make it right.

However, the center linkage does not appear to be centered. I'm not sure where the center is really, I'm only looking at the linkage where the tie rods are mounted to the center linkage. see picture below.

- The first picture is when you look straight down at the linkage on the passenger side. See how the tie rod is on the inside of the frame?
- The 2nd picture is when you look straight down at the linkage on the driver side. The tie rod is under the frame. So the position of the tie rod is shifted by about 3/4" to the driver side.
-3rd picture shows where the PS gear is mounted where the arm is very close to center. so I don't think that part is wrong.
- last picture is for the passenger side tire, which shows how it's turned in slightly in order for me to connect the linkage to the PS gear, with the gear at center of rotation.

So my question is, is it something I did wrong? Or the center linkage is ok the way it is? Anyone has any suggestions?

[padresag]

if you put in a later crossmember then you have to locate the idler arm forward/ with everything centered the tie rod should be parallel to the crossmember . the locate and mount the idler to the frame so that the tie rod stays in that position with wheels centered.
you didn't do anything wrong.
ron

[sags]

Nelson-Ohio - I just (two weeks ago) converted my 65 c10 from front drums to front discs with the conversion kit from POL. As far as the front goes, I think the first question is if you want to keep the 8 lug. I kept my 6 lugs with no problem. Everything swapped over and bolted in. I did ball joints and tie rods also. So that upgrades all of the components to 73-87 components with the 65 upper and lower control arms. It is expensive but I don't have room or time for a 'spare' truck to swap with.

[nelson-ohio]

well, I was told the C20 front can not use 1 of these conversion kits, it's not the same as the C10. This is after much search and feedback from members here.

My truck is a C10 body with C20 frame. I don't think a conversion would work.

[Captainfab]

As for the draglink not being centered, that can be corrected with an alignment, which will also equalize your left and right turning radius.

[nelson-ohio]

I was trying to see how you can center the draglink by an alignment, I guess I don't know enough about it to see how that works. I see how you can adjust the sleeve to turn the tire in and out, but that doesn't change the position of the draglink.

Just to be clear, as long as the draglink is mounted in such a way that it's parallel to the crossmenber and the frame (up/down, left/right, front/back), then it should be fine?

Need to make sure before I start drilling holes.

[Chevy Fleetside]

I put a 75 front suspension in my 65. I used all the steering components. After I was done the truck turned more left then right. I figured the reason for this is the relocation of the steering box.
The later trucks have an indent on the frame so the box will sit flush. When we use kits the box is about 3/4" away from the frame.
I drove the truck 4 year like this. What a pain right turns were. Finally I just sat there and stared at it for about 10 mins.
I adjusted the right side tie rod end to a point there I thought it was still safe and then the left side. I had to remove the outside tie rod and cut about 1" off of it so I could get the left wheel to turn far enough to match the right wheel.
I am much happier with it now then before.

[Captainfab]

There is no need to drill any holes. It sounds as though you have installed the later model idler arm? And it sounds as though you have done so correctly. All that needs to be done is what Chevy Fleetside described. You just need to adjust the tierod adjustments until the draglink is centered and the turning radius is the same for both left and right. I just had that done when I had the alignment done. In fact I didn't have to ask. It is just the standard procedure where I went.

Originally Posted by nelson-ohio

I was trying to see how you can center the draglink by an alignment, I guess I don't know enough about it to see how that works. I see how you can adjust the sleeve to turn the tire in and out, but that doesn't change the position of the draglink.

Just to be clear, as long as the draglink is mounted in such a way that it's parallel to the crossmenber and the frame (up/down, left/right, front/back), then it should be fine?

Need to make sure before I start drilling holes.

[nelson-ohio]

Thanks for everyone's help.

I have not drilled any holes yet, I was just trying to see how thing would fit first.

I have read in some other posts that I should use the 65 idler arm, which I still have. I thought I should use the 84 idler arm that came with the donor cross member. Pictures below (copies from other posters) shows both of exactly what I have, 1 is on the 84 crossmember I just installed, and 1 is on the 65 i took off.

If I use the original idler arm, that means I will not be able to adjust the position of it at all, correct? So how ever the draglink lines up is how it will be?

[Captainfab]

I always recommend using the entire steering linkage from the disc brake donor truck. This means you don't have to buy those expensive adapter sleeves and your entire steering linkage is all the same vintage, and no trying to remember what year the parts are when you need a replacement.

Yes you will have to drill a couple holes for the later model idler arm once you find the correct location. The newer idler arm in no way affects whether you can center the draglink or not.

[nelson-ohio]

I will do what the Cap. has said, it makes sense to keep the whole front from the same model/year.

1 other question: I have started to take things apart, just removed the driver side spindle this evening. It seems to be in good shape. Can I power wash then sand blast it to make it really clean? Anything I need to watch out for during that process? don't sand the polished surfaces, etc.

[Captainfab]

If you want to sandblast the spindle, wrap the actual spindle, where the bearings and seal go, with a layer of masking tape and then 3 or 4 layers of duct tape, depending on how aggressive your blaster is. The duct tape will resist the abrasive blasting, and the masking tape will make removal easier.

[nelson-ohio]

More questions:
- Is there a bolt/nut package I can buy to reinstall the 84 front cross member back, I guess I can get all the bolts I took off and figure out which is which 1 by 1, but maybe someone offers a package that I can just buy.
- When I removed the original 65 cross member, I took off the engine mount attached to the frame. The last owner had a BB installed at 1 time, not sure if the same engine mount would work with the 350 I intend to install. I don't mean the rubber piece that goes on engine, I mean the metal piece attached to the frame. Can some one confirm? Maybe I need to post a picture of what I have.

[nelson-ohio]

Here are some pic of the engine mount, it's roughly how it was installed. This looks like it was home made, I can see the weld. Can you get an OEM mount for a 350? I looked on LMC, but didn't find anything.

Correction: I found something on LMC. Are there other options? These are pricy.

[Captainfab]

Even though those don't look very good, they will work with a small block. The engine mounts are the same as well as the side to side spacing is the same for a big block or a small block.

If you want to change to a better engine mount, the brackets, mounts, and clamshells from the '84 C20 will work as well.

[nelson-ohio]

Thanks captain. I will use what came with the 84 donor front end.

[nelson-ohio]

I was able to locate 1 of the engine/frame mount from the 84, it seems this is the only one that came with it. I positioned it on the frame to see how it will fit roughly, it seems the top of the frame where there are 2 holes would not line up correctly. I will need to drill 2 new holes on the frame, or elongate the holes on the mount.

Does this sound about right? Or should these be an exact fit?

[Captainfab]

That sounds correct. The lower holes in the crossmember will line up and you will have to drill holes in the top flange of the frame. The top flange needs to be trimmed back for these. I would suggest a comparison with the '84 frame since you do have that available.

[nelson-ohio]

Thanks. Since I only have 1 of the 84 mount, will other years work as well? maybe all the way up to 87 or later?

[Captainfab]

'73-'86 in the C20 or C30 and '87-'91 in the R2500 and R3500 will all be the same.

Originally Posted by nelson-ohio

Thanks. Since I only have 1 of the 84 mount, will other years work as well? maybe all the way up to 87 or later?

[nelson-ohio]

Got all the pcs sand blasted, cleaned them up and applied 2 coats of POR-15. Now putting things back together. I have the driver side upper and lower control arm and the spindle positioned, just to see how it would look.

on the upper control arm, there is a tab attached to the top of the ball joint, I assume it's for the brake line, but is this suppose to be on the front of the control arm toward the front of the truck? So the brake hose has to be routed to the front of the cross member? I'm waiting for my hose, should be here this week.

The upper control arm has the letter "L" stamped on it, same as the lower control arm. So I assume it's the left side, which is the driver side.

[nelson-ohio]

can someone tell me how to make sure the lower control arm is in the right position? I put the U-bolts on, before tighten it too much, I want to make sure the position of the lower control arm is correct. The upper is easy.

Do I just align the upper and lower ball joint center to be on the same vertical line? Are there any tricks?

Thanks.

[Captainfab]

There is a shallow drilled hole on the LCA shaft. That locates the control arm using the short pin that protrudes into the one saddle on the crossmember.

[nelson-ohio]

thanks Captain, I was wondering what that "dimple" looking thing was for.

I have installed the spring and spindle, something else I'm not sure about. The cotter pin hole on LCA seems to be much higher than the original LCA. When I took off the spindle from the old cross member, I had to drill out the cotter pin, so I remember how it was in between 2 peaks of the castle nut.

After installing the new LCA and the spindle, the cotter pin hole is way higher, almost above the castle nut completely. Does this make sense? I don't have the old LCA anymore, so I can't compare. If I didn't do anything wrong, then the threaded part on the new ball joint must be longer. I bought a MOOG complete LCA.

Sorry if this is something very basic, this is the first time I'm doing such a large project, just want to make sure I didn't do it wrong.

[Captainfab]

Just to verify, you got the lower ball joints for the spindle you are using, correct? I've not seen a castle nut quite like that. They usually have continuous tangs and slots all the way around. If that is in fact the correct ball joint, I would seriously consider a flat washer or two between the nut and spindle to get the nut up to engage the cotter pin. That or drill a new hole for the cotter pin a bit lower.