truck line assemblers

[Redline novdog]

I just read you intro post Kieth.Very nice. Between you and your family experiences and you still have a passion for the vehicles!!
Flykelley your read is just as impressive!!! Career at GM and sounds like you too still have a passion for the vehicles.
MY HAT off to both of you.It takes alot to be with a company that long and still care.
I'm going on 22yrs.at Cat. the only thing keeping me going is doing different jobs
Gear cell for 8yrs.,Morton Parts warehouse 13mos.,Mapleton foundry 8mos.the rest in inspection and assembly(engine and tractor)
I presume that's what kept you guys going was new/different/challenging jobs?

[Keith Seymore]

Actually I'm just a dumb car guy. I have no head for business or administration; its a passion for vehicles themselves that keeps me going.

I knew when I was 8 years old that this is what I wanted to do. I can't picture myself doing anything else.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Welcome aboard flykelley. I'd like to hear more about your time in Flint, to see if our paths may have crossed.

I'm in Clarkston, so you might see a little red truck flying across Williams Lake Road by the airport from time to time.

K

[Redline novdog]

That would be good if the thread brings a couple of GM guys together.
My freakish all in car/truck when I was 10-12yrs old night race with TommyGrove and Mr.Norm. I have been an automotive guy ever since!!!!!!!!!!!!

[flykelley]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Welcome aboard flykelley. I'd like to hear more about your time in Flint, to see if our paths may have crossed.

I'm in Clarkston, so you might see a little red truck flying across Williams Lake Road by the airport from time to time.

K

Hi Keith
Would love to meet up and share stories. Working hard on my 69 which will be Red as well. Only problem is its in SC at my friends house. Need to get down there and get it done. I live in Waterford off Dixie and Hatchery.Im sure we know a lot of the same people at the Flint Plant. Lots of good memories working the line. Most people don't understand how hard the factory floor is to work. Seeing another truck coming at you every sixty seconds and don't make a mistake is tough. Want to go to the bathroom you can't just leave your job to do that like a lot of jobs can. Its a different type of job for sure. Never had any regrets about working in the plant.

Mike

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by flykelley

Hi Keith
Would love to meet up and share stories. Working hard on my 69 which will be Red as well. Only problem is its in SC at my friends house. Need to get down there and get it done. I live in Waterford off Dixie and Hatchery.Im sure we know a lot of the same people at the Flint Plant. Lots of good memories working the line. Most people don't understand how hard the factory floor is to work. Seeing another truck coming at you every sixty seconds and don't make a mistake is tough. Want to go to the bathroom you can't just leave your job to do that like a lot of jobs can. Its a different type of job for sure. Never had any regrets about working in the plant.

Mike

Thanks for the reply; that traffic light on Hatchery at the railroad tracks/Dixie Highway is my least favorite spot in the whole world!

(lol)

[Redline novdog]

Sounds like a good read. If you guys don't mind sharing!

[flykelley]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Thanks for the reply; that traffic light on Hatchery at the railroad tracks/Dixie Highway is my least favorite spot in the whole world!

(lol)

Yes its long and lots of people run it. Always taught my daughter to make sure the intersection is clear before you go through that light.

Mike

[Keith Seymore]

From another thread; I thought there might be some interest here:

Originally Posted by LostMy65

I really think there has to be "Standard" lengths for drivelines. The Bell housing was mounted in the same place for thousands of trucks. After that you only have to consider what transmission you have, then short or long bed.

Nope. Too many other variables.

The operative concept here is to control the driveshaft "critical speed", the point at which it begins to swing like a jump rope. It is affected by length, outside diameter, thickness, material, mass and rpm. Highest shaft rpm is affected by vehicle top speed, rear axle ratio and tire diameter. Length is affected by wheelbase and driveline configuration.

The driveline is also affected by any unusual or unpredicted system resonances, which can destroy a driveline even at a speed lower than the critical rpm.

From an OE perspective the driveshaft choice (one piece vs two piece) can be manipulated by controlling any one or more of those variables.

Hence there's a little more going on than picking a length and slapping a couple yokes on it (from a production standpoint).

There is a chart that the engineer keeps (like the brake system release charts I have posted in the past) that shows all of the driveline configurations and shaft lengths for every GM light duty truck. I have asked the engineer for it on a couple of occasions but he has not come through with it.

K

Originally Posted by LostMy65

I doubt they made each driveline special when the truck reached the end of the assembly line.

Yes - they made each driveline special but no, not at the end of the assembly line. All the pieces are made up ahead of time. Nothing on an assembly line is spontanteous (or, at least, it better not be). Keep in mind a typical line rate is 60 jobs per hour - that's one completed truck every minute. That gives you about 45 seconds to do your job assignment so there's not a lot of time for extra curricular activities.

The specific parts are released into the engineering database for each available combination. That way they can be sourced and procured in quanitites to support volume production, a process that could take weeks or even months. With the amount of engine, trans and wheelbase proliferation in full size truck that's a lot of combinations. This is all psyched out, designed, developed and validation/durability tested months and years ahead of start of production.

The parts numbers are distributed throughout the plant as required and printed on the manifest and/or build sheet. The operator selects the parts as indicated on the build sheet (either by part number or by broadcast code) and puts 'em together for that specific truck.

In more detail: major components like engines, transmissions, rear axles, HVAC units, etc, are received at the final assembly plant already put together by the various suppliers. They are usually received and trimmed out in a remote area of the plant and conveyed to the main assembly line in build sequence order. Rear axles are hung on the conveyor according to the build manifest and the brake lines and shocks installed. The drive shaft is sub assembled and placed on that same rear axle hanger and conveyed to the main line, as a unit.

One other nuance: usually the drive shaft assembly is attached to the rear axle before the engine/trans is installed. The front of the shaft is supported temporarily by a bungie strap and then guided into the trans tailshaft at motor set.

See http://www.73-87.com/7387info/Assembly%20Line.htm photos #1, 2 and 4.

I mention that only because it is one of those little tidbits that is counterintuitive, compared to what you are I would do in our own garage.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Also from another thread, for discussion purposes:

The VIN stamper is a large hydraulic "press" hanging from a tool rail and with the weight offset by a "balancer" (imagine a Harley-Davidson hanging from the ceiling that you are supposed to maneuver into position and press a button). It is supposed to index to the next digit automatically -but - if you mis hit or get out of sequence for some reason then you have to make a repair. Chevy and GMC have different VIN sequence numbers, requiring different stampers hanging there, so if the operator stamps a Chevy VIN on a GMC, for example, then not only is that particular truck wrong but you are out of sequence on every truck after that.

The assembly line repair person and/or the "quality man" (the foreman's right hand man) follow the vehicles down the line with an "X" stamp and a 5 lb hammer and correct the VIN sequence number as required.

Usually it's not just one truck. It normally takes several trucks before somebody notices, so you'll have five or six trucks that have to be fixed - all without the line stopping - so it's quite a scramble for a few minutes while you figure out what happened and what has to happen to make it right. You pray nothing else goes to crap while you've got your two best guys otherwise unavailable.

K

[Redline novdog]

Odd I was just thinking.I was going to ask a kind of off topic about drive shafts. Maybe you have some input on the newer truck with a with a speed/rpm limiter.I have heard that is to keep the drive shafts from flying out from under the truck. I'm thinking late 90's early 2000's.

[Keith Seymore]

Yes - we can limit top speed for certain combinations, either to protect the driveline or because of tire speed ratings, etc.

Normally we do that via fuel cutoff at a certain engine rpm.

K

[Redline novdog]

Keith Seymor and FlyKeley. You guys see any perks while working there??? Other than drooling over and ordering new trucks. KS procured a manual transmission(plus a few fortunate truck buyers), The main line assembly is meant to be docile.Any catch fire?
Had a few evacuations from the HOT Test cells of engines catching fire in hot test.

[Keith Seymore]

Perks? Well, besides the obvious access to internal information (including build information and special part numbers) there's a lot of relational things:

a) Access to some pretty talented fabricators/machinists/welders, etc
b) Access to some pretty cool tools, parts, etc
c) The opportuntity to impact and be asociated with some highly visible (and desireable) products
d) Discounts on purchases
e) Access to some pretty cool completed vehicles, years before the general public sees them

I was a company car driver for almost 20 years, so I had a new assigned vehicle three or four times a year, plus temporary access to any vehicle within GM's fleet, as well as driving experimental vehicles up to three or even four years before they hit the market. That's a nice benefit.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Redline novdog

Keith The main line assembly is meant to be docile.Any catch fire?
Had a few evacuations from the HOT Test cells of engines catching fire in hot test.

I can't think of any fires (either vehicles or equipment). There's certainly the potential, especially in the paint shop.

We've dropped a few, where they fell out of the clamshell at body drop, or maybe out of a carrier during the process. If something goes haywire in the cab shop the automatic welders have the ability to wad up a pickup cab like a gum wrapper.

Occasionally one will get speared with a forklift and we already talked about losing them in the back yard.

Most of the excitement comes from getting out of sequence between the feeder lines and the main line (or the main line itself). That can be as innocuous as putting Chevy emblems on one side of a GMC - or - it can be as major as trying to set a Blazer body on a Suburban chassis (or a similar failure on the pickup line). That would be bad*. Wrong engines could happen (ie, trying to set a "big block" engine in a "small block" sized opening). We had one that was a floor shifted manual trans but someone missed the hole in the floor - the quality man fixed that one by chiseling the cutout with a screwdriver and a hammer, riding down the line while the cab - seated on the left side mounts and the shift tower - teetered precariously a few inches above the chassis.

Occasionally (or slightly more often) we'd build a truck with a wrong axle, like a 6 lug 4wd axle where a 5 lug 2wd axle should be. The presenting symptom there is that the provided tire/wheel assembly will not bolt up. We kept a "library" of "wrong" tire/wheels on hand at the install location; that way if you had a wrong axle you could simply install the corresponding wrong tire/wheel. The line kept rolling and the axle would be swapped out back in a heavy repair stall.

Similarly the supply of tire/wheel assemblies could get out of whack. Not every truck got a spare (and the fronts didn't have to match the back) so you had to pay attention to if the truck got four tire/wheels or five.

K

*probably what would happen there is the truck would just continue down the line and operators would throw their parts in the cargo area.

[Keith Seymore]

From a different thread:

We’ve talked about the variation between plants, and the variation within an assembly plant due to different operators.

What we haven’t talked about is how many different operators might be on the same job, even within the same day. This might be an appropriate place to take a second and do so.

Some assembly plants shut down for “break times”. The UAW required 6 minutes of break time for each hour worked, distributed into a break in the morning and a break in the afternoon (not counting ½ hour for lunch). If that operator never takes an additional break (to use the bathroom, or for a medical issue) then you might only have one person on that job per shift. This is probably what you would expect.

However – some plants use a “rolling” break technique. Said differently: the line doesn’t shut down for break, and there is a staff of “utility men” or replacement workers who go to each job and give that worker a break individually. After that assembler comes back the relief man goes to the next job* and gives that assembler a break, until everybody in the area has been covered. If you had a different relief man covering the morning break vs the afternoon break then you are up to three operators per shift; times the number of shifts (two or three); so you could have as many as 9 people touching those parts for a three shift productive operation.

That assumes the person doesn’t need a quick respite, covered by a different utility man, quality man (the foreman’s right hand man) or the foreman himself (in some cases) at some other point during the shift.

I say all this to say: there could be between 1 and 8 or 9 people performing the same job in the same assembly plant within a given 24 hour period. That introduces a whole ‘nother level of variation.

K

*one nuance to note here is that there was a person (several, actually) who could do any job within a foreman’s designated area. I was able to do every job within my area (approx 27 different operations) – sometimes more than one at once(!).

[Keith Seymore]

I added post #66 so we could talk briefly about this:

For some unknown reason the assembly line typically starts at 6 am. Lunch (1/2 hour) is unpaid so an 8 hour shift would be 6 am - 2:30pm. Getting out at 2:30 would be cool; unfortunately you typically don't work just 8 hours. Production can be 9, 10, or even 11 hours and then, as a supervisor, you are usually in early (up to an hour early - for free) and stay late (up to an hour later than everybody else - also for free). That's a long time on your feet.

Second shift would start after the parking lot has cleared, so usually 4:30 pm. Using the same math (1/2 hour for lunch, unpaid) quitting time would be 1 am the next day, for a "normal" eight hour day. Three shifts of production is just rediculous, and didn't happen that often.

Lunch was at 10:12 am for Line 1; 10:54 am for Line 2. (I can remember the lunchtimes from 30 years ago but I can't remember to stop and eat lunch today - lol).

I don't know who thought a 6 am start was such a good idea but I would like to find that person and have a brief, private and spirited conversation with him.

K

[Redline novdog]

Thanks for the reply.The perks I am sure we are all jealous!!!
Mishaps are always good reading! They tried the rolling break a Cat.failed miserably.Line by line there were only 10 assemblers per line!
Not a morning person? I have been up at 2:30am this week in at 4:30.Normal hrs. Start at 6:30 am.Night life is nill.
A lot of variation if that many people are stepping in on the same job! I'll have to say I have done basically the same job for 5yrs. I can say most of the D7E tractors out there I have put my hands on it!!!
Sorry for the out of sequence reply.sleep deprived. You should write a book KeithSeymore I'm sure it would be a limited audience but an excellent subject matter!!!!

[flykelley]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Also from another thread, for discussion purposes:

The VIN stamper is a large hydraulic "press" hanging from a tool rail and with the weight offset by a "balancer" (imagine a Harley-Davidson hanging from the ceiling that you are supposed to maneuver into position and press a button). It is supposed to index to the next digit automatically -but - if you mis hit or get out of sequence for some reason then you have to make a repair. Chevy and GMC have different VIN sequence numbers, requiring different stampers hanging there, so if the operator stamps a Chevy VIN on a GMC, for example, then not only is that particular truck wrong but you are out of sequence on every truck after that.

The assembly line repair person and/or the "quality man" (the foreman's right hand man) follow the vehicles down the line with an "X" stamp and a 5 lb hammer and correct the VIN sequence number as required.

Usually it's not just one truck. It normally takes several trucks before somebody notices, so you'll have five or six trucks that have to be fixed - all without the line stopping - so it's quite a scramble for a few minutes while you figure out what happened and what has to happen to make it right. You pray nothing else goes to crap while you've got your two best guys otherwise unavailable.

K

Hi Keith, I did that job for a while in Flint on Line 1. You are correct if you get the vin stamp screwed up its a pain to fix them all.

Mike

[flykelley]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

I added post #66 so we could talk briefly about this:

For some unknown reason the assembly line typically starts at 6 am. Lunch (1/2 hour) is unpaid so an 8 hour shift would be 6 am - 2:30pm. Getting out at 2:30 would be cool; unfortunately you typically don't work just 8 hours. Production can be 9, 10, or even 11 hours and then, as a supervisor, you are usually in early (up to an hour early - for free) and stay late (up to an hour later than everybody else - also for free). That's a long time on your feet.

Second shift would start after the parking lot has cleared, so usually 4:30 pm. Using the same math (1/2 hour for lunch, unpaid) quitting time would be 1 am the next day, for a "normal" eight hour day. Three shifts of production is just rediculous, and didn't happen that often.

Lunch was at 10:12 am for Line 1; 10:54 am for Line 2. (I can remember the lunchtimes from 30 years ago but I can't remember to stop and eat lunch today - lol).

I don't know who thought a 6 am start was such a good idea but I would like to find that person and have a brief, private and spirited conversation with him.

K

Keith I agree with you, I work second shift almost me whole 33 years at GM. 6:00am start time is just crazy.

Mike

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by flykelley

Keith I agree with you, I work second shift almost me whole 33 years at GM. 6:00am start time is just crazy.

Mike

My first "real" job after graduating (Production Supervisor on Line 1 Fender set) was on second shift.

I liked being out at night but I didn't like having to stop what I was doing to get ready to go to work. It felt like it was always hanging over my head.

That 6 am start time just gets ingrained in you. I didn't notice it until we went on vacation one time, down south. 6 am rolled around and my wife and I were out on the street, ready to do some sightseeing. The streets were empty except for us, one homeless guy and a police officer. Everybody else was still in bed.

I remember as a teenager marveling that my grandfather would be up at 5 or 6 in the morning even though he had nothing to do. Now I am that guy (I've become my own grandfather).

K

[flykelley]

Hi Guys
One of the jobs that a friend had was Body Drop, the Truck Bodys come down from the second floor with a large cage hoist. You had to keep the hoist at the same forward speed as the line on the first floor all the time dropping this body onto the chassis. Oh and all you had between you and that big hole in the floor was a three foot high railing. Tough job to do and keep the correct pace down, one mistake and you are hitting the engine, maybe a guys hand as he is routing wiring harness's and master cylinders lines out of the way. Two guys in the pit below with large pins to line the body up before its set on the chassis. Never did the body drop job but spent many days in the pit lining up cabs and box's.


Mike

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by flykelley

Hi Guys
One of the jobs that a friend had was Body Drop, the Truck Bodys come down from the second floor with a large cage hoist. You had to keep the hoist at the same forward speed as the line on the first floor all the time dropping this body onto the chassis. Oh and all you had between you and that big hole in the floor was a three foot high railing. Tough job to do and keep the correct pace down, one mistake and you are hitting the engine, maybe a guys hand as he is routing wiring harness's and master cylinders lines out of the way. Two guys in the pit below with large pins to line the body up before its set on the chassis. Never did the body drop job but spent many days in the pit lining up cabs and box's.


Mike

Very true. I remember one of the body drop guys name was "Bird" (perhaps you knew him or he was your friend. I think his real name was Mark).

The good ones could let the body essentially "free fall" and then "ERRK" stop about an inch above the frame. Then the top side guys would non-chalantly guide the body the rest of the way down, as though they did it a hundred times every day (which they did).

I used to give the assembly plant tours as a student. Tour groups would stand and watch body drop for as long as you would let them.

K

photo credit 73-87.com Flint Assembly Line 2 Blazer/Suburban shown (you can tell by the rear mounted fuel tank)

[Keith Seymore]

Some plants do it a little differently now.

The chassis is on a carrier which raises up into the stationary body.

(Of course, it's been done before, as there is nothing new under the sun).

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by flykelley

Hi Guys
One of the jobs that a friend had was Body Drop, the Truck Bodys come down from the second floor with a large cage hoist. You had to keep the hoist at the same forward speed as the line on the first floor all the time dropping this body onto the chassis. Oh and all you had between you and that big hole in the floor was a three foot high railing. Tough job to do and keep the correct pace down, one mistake and you are hitting the engine, maybe a guys hand as he is routing wiring harness's and master cylinders lines out of the way. Two guys in the pit below with large pins to line the body up before its set on the chassis. Never did the body drop job but spent many days in the pit lining up cabs and box's.


Mike

My area on Line 1 started immediately after body drop.

The guys in body drop would set the cab and then drive the body mount bolts - but not the pickup box bolts - and then ship to my area.

So my area began by:
(a) fixing any cross threaded body bolts (there were quite a few)
(b) tightening down the pickup box bolts
(c) hanging the spare tire
(d) installing floor mounted shifters
(e) preparing the underhood wiring
(f) hanging the front fenders - LH and RH
(g) installing batteries
(h) repair

At that point the trucks were ready for the next area, which was hood set.

K