Starting my engine build

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

Reading your thread and I did a few quick searches on Pro Topline heads and before you dive in to this head change you may want to do some homework on these heads ? Seems many think there junk and not worth the time and aggravation ? That maybe why the PO handed them to you instead of installing them when he just did the bottom end ? Their made in New Zealand and the company was sold 12 years ago

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/pro-...uck-26435.html

I got the heads from a shop who builds camaros for a few hundred bucks

[Mrturner1]

Hoping to get some work done on the truck today. Will be cutting some cardboard rectangles and putting all the lifters and rods in order on the cardboard so I can reinstall. However I am thinking about new rods and a cam and roller rocker set, as well as a double roller timing chain.

I'm going to try my best to degree the cam that's in it because it's definetly a lumpy cam of some sort. I suppose I should get the tools for that today

[davepl]

I assume you meant pushrods, not "rods" as in piston rods in that one part.

I would practice degreeing the cam 3-4 different lifters and see if you get the same answer each time!

Also make sure the dial indicator's probe is on a hard edge or clip of the lifter - if you let it go down inside you can get a false reading if the hydraulic lifter collapses a little during your work.

[Mrturner1]

Yep pushrods, def not piston rods. I was reading up on that lunati cam degree wheel and that looks way out of my league. I'm thinking just pull the cam and really see what it is. I'm almost 100% positive that a cam change will be necessary anyway, because I need something that compliments the heads or the whole thing is a wash

[Mrturner1]

Been staring at the truck for an hour trying to make a desicion on how far to go, and I'm gonna go ahead and pull the cam, which will mean radiator and grille next. Why not, it's a good experience, and it's not my daily driver. I'm pretty mechanically inclined, and worst case scenario I fudge up massively, and then order a Blueprint 383 that's already assembled

[Sklptrljay]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

Been staring at the truck for an hour trying to make a desicion on how far to go, and I'm gonna go ahead and pull the cam, which will mean radiator and grille next. Why not, it's a good experience, and it's not my daily driver. I'm pretty mechanically inclined, and worst case scenario I fudge up massively, and then order a Blueprint 383 that's already assembled

Do it.......you'll have fun.....scream.....spend way more than you planned.....scream.......bleed.......go to the auto store 9000 times.......it'll be fun!

Seriously though, just do it. You'll never learn until you try, and you have a great resource here on this board. I wish I had the internet when I was working on cars when I was younger.

[davepl]

DO the cam degree steps. Can't put any cam in properly without doing it!

Watch a bunch of Youtube videos, read the book, it'll all make sense eventually. No point in doing stuff unless you're learning as you go!

If I can do upholstery, you can degree a cam :-)

[Mrturner1]

Got the heads off, that wasn't so bad just time consuming with a ratchet

[Mrturner1]

All the parts

[Mrturner1]

I'll get some better pics tomarrow, this was taken after dark with the flash on so its not a great picture

[justahoby]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

The heads

RHS bought out the pro topline company, then in turn was bought by Comp Cams,

The pro toplines are good flowing heads, the RHS was good flowing, the chamber shape however I had to use an 400 gasket ( not a factory replacement) ( i know your not running a 400, but i am trying to save you a disaster) so the fire ring would not hang into the chamber. Chamber was designed to flow around the valve, so just in case, lay the gasket over the head to make sure the fire ring lays on the milled surface, not overlapping into the chamber,

i had to get some expensive fel pro gaskets that cleared the chamber. it was shaped to clear and was recommended by RHS.

[4 Wheelin Fudpucker]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

If the cam is stock I'll definetly want to get something a little more roudy. I got the truck to go fast and a cam is a big piece of that puzzle. I'll cross my fingers on the bottom end, and when it goes I'll have a good excuse to get a 383 short block

An "RV" or econo-cam will give you some lump, and improve fuel mileage at top and, and launch times at low end.

My fav is a 400Jr. Lots of lift and lump, major git up and go. Fuel mileage, not so nice.

Dont forget to magnaflux those heads BEFORE you have them worked on.
Nuttin worse than finished heads with hair line cracks in them.

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by 4 Wheelin Fudpucker

An "RV" or econo-cam will give you some lump, and improve fuel mileage at top and, and launch times at low end.

My fav is a 400Jr. Lots of lift and lump, major git up and go. Fuel mileage, not so nice.

Dont forget to magnaflux those heads BEFORE you have them worked on.
Nuttin worse than finished heads with hair line cracks in them.

Do they make that for a SBC? I looked it up and it said flat head fords from the 50's

[Mrturner1]

I'd like to figure out how much cam these heads can handle, as in the valve springs I mean. The valve springs look to be heavier duty than the stock ones, but I can't tell what kind of springs they are

[Mrturner1]

I'm also wondering how to tell (if there's a way) if this bottom end had actually been freshened up like the PO said. And what do stock Pistons look like? And also, how can I tell if my pistons are in good enough shape to carry on for a while?

Thanks for all the great replies and info guys

Matt

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by davepl

DO the cam degree steps. Can't put any cam in properly without doing it!

Watch a bunch of Youtube videos, read the book, it'll all make sense eventually. No point in doing stuff unless you're learning as you go!

If I can do upholstery, you can degree a cam :-)

Ok, I'll give it a try

[toolboxchev]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

I'm also wondering how to tell (if there's a way) if this bottom end had actually been freshened up like the PO said. And what do stock Pistons look like? And also, how can I tell if my pistons are in good enough shape to carry on for a while?

Thanks for all the great replies and info guys

Matt

For a visual only inspection do the following.

1. The Piston Cylinders should have a good cross hatch showing with little up and down wear.

2. The top of the cylinders should have no lip, wear the piston travel stops. If you have a substantial ridge there and little cross hatch in the cylinder it would likely be time for a entire rebuild.

3. The gap on the connecting rods can be measured with a flat feeler gauge the specs can be listed in a rebuilding manual or shop manual.

I would like to see others chime in on what they would look at. This should give you a good basis for evaluating the necessity for a complete rebuild. Most guys and shops will tell you to go ahead and bore the block since you already have it apart.

I have over 50k on a top end only rebuild. It is still going fairly strong. I do not however use this vehicle for any type of daily heavy duty hauling or towing. Nor will I.

Look at what your overall objective and budget is.


I used a Comp Cams setup for mine. Their technical assistance folks are top notch and have seen my problems through to a win!

[GASoline71]

Take a pic of the tops of the pistons in the bore. You are looking for numbers like .020 or .030 inscribed in the tops. That way you know they are oversized to fit a new bore.

If not... it's probably just a 40 year old stock bottom end.

Good to see some progress.

Gary

[GRX]

Not sure this has been mentioned yet. You may have noticed many of the head bolts go into the coolant system. So you must clean old sealer from the bolt threads and those in the block. Then apply new sealer for assembly.

[davepl]

If changing cam or heads, make sure you don't run into coil bind - when the spring is at max compression from max lift, you should still be able to get a paperclip in between the coils somewhere. If you have dual springs, that applies to the inside AND the outside ones.

I know, because I failed to to this when I installed a cam with more lift than my old one and didn't check for bind. Wiped a lobe off two cams in a row before I wised up.

Also, when changing cam duration or lift you technically should check piston to valve clearance. I know, because I told my brother that, he failed to do it, and had just a TINY bit of interference that wound up pounding out the main bearings.

That's easy to do with the heads off; once the cam is installed set a piece of clay on the piston, put a gasket and a head on, crank it through two full revolutions, and measure the thinnest part of the clay. I think you want at least 0.060" but the specs should be in one of the books you're following :-)

[Mrturner1]

Just left the parts store, I'll take pics when I get home. I doubt I've ever had a smile this big plastered to my face

[Mrturner1]

Also, I took the existing head gasket off the head I removed, and it's a Fel-Pro head gasket. So I know it's been cracked open at some point, maybe the PO really did rebuild it. I'll check the pistons and cylinder walls when I get home

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by GASoline71

Take a pic of the tops of the pistons in the bore. You are looking for numbers like .020 or .030 inscribed in the tops. That way you know they are oversized to fit a new bore.

If not... it's probably just a 40 year old stock bottom end.

Good to see some progress.

Gary

Pistons say 040, that's good news

[Mrturner1]

New cam, lifters, and valve springs matched to the cam

[Mrturner1]

Performer RPM to replace my old Performer. Deeper trans pan with drain plug, and a couple tools