How many have restored trucks and left their front drum brakes?

[dave`12]

I left my 67 with manual drums. It came down to money. I think if you respect the fact that it won't stop like your DD, you should be fine.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by James the III

in Montana..
Again as seen as you missed it.. you can open up a cushion to have enough space..
but please tell me how to keep other drivers from pulling into that slot..
please I've looked for a way to control other drivers to no avail..
So what is the secret ..
thanks..

There is no secret. You have two choices.

1) Leave a large gap and let people filter into it, then backing off to recreate the gap

2) Follow too close because (1) bugs you and have accidents

No free lunch. Safety is an art.

[toolboxchev]

Originally Posted by davepl

There is no secret. You have two choices.

1) Leave a large gap and let people filter into it, then backing off to recreate the gap

2) Follow too close because (1) bugs you and have accidents

No free lunch. Safety is an art.

Or you could simply back up real quick like and slam on the brakes 5 times to make use of the self adjusters.

Just saying....still stoppin...another day 11 years after purchase, 47 years after manufacture....

[CaptRMW]

Really wondering why no one mentioned converting from disc to drum brakes?
I drove a new 1970 with drums for 285,000 miles and took along some clean underwear for those times like going down Balsam mountain in N.C. and was quite sure I was not going to make it to the runaway truck ramp. I built the truck I currently drive 28 years ago and drove it the 15 miles to my house and when I stepped on the drum brakes I think it speeded up rather than slowing down. The first thing that was done was find a donor disc setup. Last summer we drove a 15 mile road down a mountain in N.C. that has 92 hairpin turns in the 15 miles with no brake fade or strange odors. Your brake shoes are roasting in a space enclosed so tight that debris stays out but also keeps out the air needed to cool them.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by 1968aj

if a ''power tour'' and rush hour traffic is so scary you need to upgrade tires ; seat belts; add air bags; wear a helmet the list goes on. I would just buy a new truck and stay out of that death trap.

There's constructive conversation (which for the most part we've been having, kudos to everyone for keeping it civil), then there's comments like this.

It's absolutely asinine to insult someone for wanting to enjoy their hobby in a safer way.

I went face first into a steel dash when I was a young kid wearing a lap belt when my dad ditched our 4x4 during a bad snow storm. Broke my nose and hurt like absolute hell. I never want to experience that again and no amount of defensive driving can prevent a deer or another car from getting in your way. Why go face first into a dash or steering wheel when you don't have to. Why not make the truck handle and drive better? Why add OD or why bother with more horse power? It's a hobby that I will enjoy as long as I can and as fun and safely as I can for both myself and everyone else around me despite your opinion of how I should enjoy it.

[1968aj]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

There's constructive conversation (which for the most part we've been having, kudos to everyone for keeping it civil), then there's comments like this.

It's absolutely asinine to insult someone for wanting to enjoy their hobby in a safer way.

I went face first into a steel dash when I was a young kid wearing a lap belt when my dad ditched our 4x4 during a bad snow storm. Broke my nose and hurt like absolute hell. I never want to experience that again and no amount of defensive driving can prevent a deer or another car from getting in your way. Why go face first into a dash or steering wheel when you don't have to. Why not make the truck handle and drive better? Why add OD or why bother with more horse power? It's a hobby that I will enjoy as long as I can and as fun and safely as I can for both myself and everyone else around me despite your opinion of how I should enjoy it.

I was not trying to not be civil. just a little humor. just because I don't fully agree with you on what op asked is no reason to single me out. its bad you were in an accident but people hit deer and have accidents in modern vehicles every day. it looks like to me the op got a lot of advice and decided to not let other people spend his money for him.

[James the III]

Originally Posted by B. W.

Not being snarky ... really. Read or watch the Smith system of defensive driving, it explains how to maintain a safe space cushion. (that is actually one of the 5 "keys" of defensive driving)
Montana? Some pretty tough driving here at times, but my commercial driving was mostly in the south.
apples to oranges? Class 8 drum brakes are not "self-energizing" they are a single acting system. they work OK when loaded to 80,00 (or over), work best at moderate loads &, with experience, work well when running empty. Drum brake systems on our trucks are "self-energizing " (duo-servo) & the braking systems on all vehicles are engineered to work with the weight & load parameters of that vehicle ( some better than others)

Bottom line: If you have an accident with a drum brake vehicle THAT IS IN PROPER WORKING CONDITION it is not the brake system's fault it is the driver's.

not being sharky..
but again tell me the secret to controlling the actions of the other drivers darting in and out of traffic at will..
Closing that cushion I make, in a vehicle that with the truck/suv craze isn't tall enough to see 5-10 vehicles ahead..(like a rig) that is part of any driver training..!!!!!!!
At 45mph I'd need an extra 2 car length cushion over the safe amount to stop and not hit a new vehicle that panic stops..
So, please tell me the secret of keeping the cushion/space/hole in front of me when other drivers will not care why I left the space they will fill it..
Use the force?? where does one buy this force field?? yes sounds silly, but so does thinking you can open a cushion on todays roads and it not be filled as fast as you open it..

Your bottom line is living in dream land.. the land of polite drivers that will see a 40 year old vehicle and have the knowledge that it can't stop as fast as todays vehicles and leave you room..
back in reality.. BANG.. you rear ended a vehicle that changed lanes then saw traffic stopped panic stops, you had enough safe space /cushion to not hit anything, but then a vehicle filled it leaving you now 20' short.. BANG..
Guess in your world The driver should've had a crystal ball to see that dart and brake coming.. cause in my world he/she did everything correctly, left enough space/cushion to stop and not hit anything but another driver said, sorry I'm filling it..
So in closing please tell me the secret of controlling other drivers actions..

[toolboxchev]

I will leave this with my drums. I had an accident over 3 years ago in which the driver in front of me had stopped short in a 40 zone. I was behind him and had to slam on my brakes. I made it, did not contact him what so ever. How ever the driver behind me was gackin on his cell phone, saw it plain as day in the rear view mirror, SLAMMO right into my solid steel bumper with a hitch.

His rig was bleeding green when I finally got out, those drums on there were over 4 years old with Wagner and Raybestos shoes.

I have a slight bend in my bumper, his rig, most likely totaled.

For those who wish to delve deeper: http://www.truckinginfo.com/article/...-vs-discs.aspx

[Coley]

Whatever you do, never follow behind someone short wearing a hat.....

C

[special-K]

I live in the country but drive into the metro areas, so know what it's like to deal with butt heads in traffic. As they slip in I slip back. I don't allow them to make me drive like them. They are a-holes and I don't want to be one. I see people with disc brakes running into each other, not me with drums running into them. They run into me. It's just a bad situation and one I take great measures to avoid whenever possible. That prevents more accidents than better brakes. They keep trying to design cars around lousy drivers and they still manage to do bone head stuff from simply not taking the task at hand seriously and just plain drive the way you are supposed to because you are supposed to. Everyone would get home safe with that one simple adjustment

[GRX]

Originally Posted by special-K

I live in the country but drive into the metro areas, so know what it's like to deal with butt heads in traffic. As they slip in I slip back. I don't allow them to make me drive like them. They are a-holes and I don't want to be one. I see people with disc brakes running into each other, not me with drums running into them. They run into me. It's just a bad situation and one I take great measures to avoid whenever possible. That prevents more accidents than better brakes. They keep trying to design cars around lousy drivers and they still manage to do bone head stuff from simply not taking the task at hand seriously and just plain drive the way you are supposed to because you are supposed to. Everyone would get home safe with that one simple adjustment

^^ QFT

[James the III]

Originally Posted by special-K

I live in the country but drive into the metro areas, so know what it's like to deal with butt heads in traffic. As they slip in I slip back. I don't allow them to make me drive like them. They are a-holes and I don't want to be one. I see people with disc brakes running into each other, not me with drums running into them. They run into me. It's just a bad situation and one I take great measures to avoid whenever possible. That prevents more accidents than better brakes. They keep trying to design cars around lousy drivers and they still manage to do bone head stuff from simply not taking the task at hand seriously and just plain drive the way you are supposed to because you are supposed to. Everyone would get home safe with that one simple adjustment

so true..
but some drive in it daily.. for 15-20 miles one way..
You can only do so much.. many areas have a min speed limit.. so you can't drive slow enough to allow the dopes to drive like dopes and stay back far enough from them...
I had no choice one summer to drive my drum brake chevelle for a month daily..
I never was able to keep the needed cushion in front of me.. heck if I left one car length it got filled.. after a week I left for work an hour early to drive to work as the world was still asleep and stayed in the area of work, even window stopping to let the rush hour (s) racers get gone so traffic was 1/2 it was an hour earlier..
I'd never drive a all drum light truck today daily.. not here.. Been there done that.. learned from it.. no thanks.
it is the reason I got a 71 . Up here there isn't a ton of trucks in yards to get the disc from, and buying the parts for the swap new wasn't in the cards then..
today I'd have bought a 68 and do the swap. but the funds wasn't there then..

[MikeB]

I say keep the drum brakes. Use new brand name drums and the best shoes you can find. And make sure the entire arc of each shoe contacts the drum!

Might want to contact Porterfield about their R4-S street compound. I think they can bond the linings to your old shoes.
http://porterfield-brakes.com/images...8_02_22_50.pdf

My guess is they will work OK when cold, and grab like crazy when warm or hot.

[ubtripn]

I bought the 3 point belts and just drive mellow. It was that easy for me as a decision. Also, I know it sounds impossible but it feels like my drums stop better in snow.

[B. W.]

Originally Posted by James the III

not being sharky..
but again tell me the secret to controlling the actions of the other drivers darting in and out of traffic at will..
Closing that cushion I make, in a vehicle that with the truck/suv craze isn't tall enough to see 5-10 vehicles ahead..(like a rig) that is part of any driver training..!!!!!!!
At 45mph I'd need an extra 2 car length cushion over the safe amount to stop and not hit a new vehicle that panic stops..
So, please tell me the secret of keeping the cushion/space/hole in front of me when other drivers will not care why I left the space they will fill it..
Use the force?? where does one buy this force field?? yes sounds silly, but so does thinking you can open a cushion on todays roads and it not be filled as fast as you open it..

Your bottom line is living in dream land.. the land of polite drivers that will see a 40 year old vehicle and have the knowledge that it can't stop as fast as todays vehicles and leave you room..
back in reality.. BANG.. you rear ended a vehicle that changed lanes then saw traffic stopped panic stops, you had enough safe space /cushion to not hit anything, but then a vehicle filled it leaving you now 20' short.. BANG..
Guess in your world The driver should've had a crystal ball to see that dart and brake coming.. cause in my world he/she did everything correctly, left enough space/cushion to stop and not hit anything but another driver said, sorry I'm filling it..
So in closing please tell me the secret of controlling other drivers actions..

It's obvious you didn't read the 5 keys to defensive driving. Davepl sums it up perfectly in post #52.

It was once said " Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!"

You win

[dmjlambert]

Originally Posted by saxart

If I'm doing 55mph in my 1970 C-10 (with drum brakes) and nail the brakes "panic stop" style, all four wheels will lock up in plumes of tire smoke. Obviously that would be the wrong way to operate a non-ABS vehicle, but my point is, how would me having disk brakes in that example make me stop any sooner? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that disk brakes may be very slightly easier to modulate so they DON'T lock up, but frankly if you're following someone close enough that the slight benefit in modulation is the difference between smashing into someone or not, then you're following them WAY to close.

I think your post makes the most sense to me. I'm not convinced that drum brakes are any different than disc when it comes to applying pressure on the pedal and getting a full range of stopping power applied to the wheels. Everything from slowing down slightly to completely locking the wheels, in which case you rely on the friction of the rubber on the road stopping you. Manual drum brakes may require the driver being accustomed to applying more foot pressure, but when it comes down to applying the maximum braking to stop the truck, I think the physics apply.

Say you had 2 equal-weight trucks with the same tire brand and size installed, driving on the same road, one with disc brakes and one with drums all around. If you apply maximum braking to slow from 55 MPH to 0, both trucks would stop in the exact same distance.

The only way to change that braking distance would be to modulate the braking force better, to stop locking up. That can be done with your foot equally well with drum brakes or disc, but your foot would not be able to do a better job than an ABS braking system.

With that said, there are plenty of people who drive incorrectly, such as riding the brakes, driving in the wrong gear going down steep grades, and other things to heat the brakes. I have pulled up beside cars at stop lights at night and saw their disc brakes actually glowing red hot and I don't mean from lighting. I could smell them, too. For them, perhaps it is better to have disc brakes instead of working with knowledge of how brakes function.

[toolboxchev]

Originally Posted by special-K

I live in the country but drive into the metro areas, so know what it's like to deal with butt heads in traffic. As they slip in I slip back. I don't allow them to make me drive like them. They are a-holes and I don't want to be one. I see people with disc brakes running into each other, not me with drums running into them. They run into me. It's just a bad situation and one I take great measures to avoid whenever possible. That prevents more accidents than better brakes. They keep trying to design cars around lousy drivers and they still manage to do bone head stuff from simply not taking the task at hand seriously and just plain drive the way you are supposed to because you are supposed to. Everyone would get home safe with that one simple adjustment

Well said, that is why we drive GM.

[CaptRMW]

Welcome to the new Raybestos brought to you by some very talented rice farmers in China and they will furnish matching drums too.

[James the III]

Originally Posted by davepl

There is no secret. You have two choices.

1) Leave a large gap and let people filter into it, then backing off to recreate the gap

2) Follow too close because (1) bugs you and have accidents

No free lunch. Safety is an art.

So your answer is pull over and park it. as that is the only way you'll leave space and keep the min speed limit of the road..
So you have no answer.. as you'll note that going much slower than traffic is also causing a danger.. and your safety class for driving will state this also..

[James the III]

Originally Posted by B. W.

It's obvious you didn't read the 5 keys to defensive driving. Davepl sums it up perfectly in post #52.

It was once said " Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!"

You win

Oh there it is the belittle a person when you have no reply..
I'm out..
Reality is those you share the road with don't care if you need a cushion to stop..
Heck they don't care that a loaded rig can't stop on a dime..
There is a reason big rig drivers have dash camera's..
And it is they CAN NOT stop fast enough even driving safely and with all the safe driving skills in use.. with todays drivers they share the road with..
BECAUSE if the safety driving was enough, there be no need for the dash camera..
So, if you have one.. remove it.. as clearly.. there is no point of having one..
Must be a reason most have one, ..

[Grumpy old man]

Tell us how you really feel about drum brakes ?

No really, One thing I've learned over my few years on here is what works fine for one person may totally be insufficient for another so to each their own .

For me I'm fine with drums on a 67 short bed with a 6 and no heavy load ,Fresh brakes and new tires . With a big block or any heavy load be it a short bed or long front discs are going to be the rule . There are way too many variables To debate who's right given weather ,road conditions,time of day ,temperature , traffic load ,etc etc etc

As far as cameras they are a benefit to whoever uses them in the event of an accident as video doesn't lie . good or bad for the cameras owner .

[Jason Banks]

Here's my defensive driving tip. I usually find a big rig and follow them. I know they can't stop quicker than me and no one else usually wants to be right behind them. I can usually have a nice comfortable following distance without having anybody want to cut in that close behind them.

[special-K]

So there are states where they would rather you tailgate than slow down? I can't imagine a courtroom in this nation where a person charged with driving under minimum speed wouldn't be let off once they explained they were driving that slow to maintain a safe distance from the vehicle ahead. Our minimum speed on interstates in 40 mph, and I believe that's national. Every rush hour there are areas on 55-70 mph interstates where no one is doing 40

If disc brakes are so much safer than drums, it makes me wonder why auto makers didn't adapt them till decades after their introduction and long after other safety mandates such as padded dash, horn button, shoulder belts. By the time Detroit started going disc as a standard (on front) they were looking for ways to cut costs and make vehicles lighter... and were strongly competing with foreign vehicles that had been using disc brakes.

In this world of extreme safety device mandates disc brakes have never been mandated, that I know of

[Andy4639]

This debate is like which is better the Chevy are Ford are Dodge Nissan Toyota whatever. It's all personal opinions and we all know about those!
I like both and have both so I drive accordingly.

[James the III]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

Tell us how you really feel about drum brakes ?

No really, One thing I've learned over my few years on here is what works fine for one person may totally be insufficient for another so to each their own .

For me I'm fine with drums on a 67 short bed with a 6 and no heavy load ,Fresh brakes and new tires . With a big block or any heavy load be it a short bed or long front discs are going to be the rule . There are way too many variables To debate who's right given weather ,road conditions,time of day ,temperature , traffic load ,etc etc etc

As far as cameras they are a benefit to whoever uses them in the event of an accident as video doesn't lie . good or bad for the cameras owner .

I think drums are fine if you drive it with no traffic.. The problem for me starts with traffic and not being able to keep a safe distance because other drivers don't know or care that my old vehicle brakes will take much longer to stop..
Most of the shows/cruises around here are on Thursdays ,and you drive when there is work traffic.. A drive to a show on a sunday and park it.. no issue..
going to a cruise spot at 4pm on a week day.. when even the secondary roads won't get you away from heavy traffic it is an issue...