53 3100 Project - My first truck build...

[hobo]

And what is with that ceiling? Looks like when they chopped the top they actually split the cab roof and riveted the thing back together...

[8man]

I don't have as much experience as a lot of guys on here, but I don't think putting one piece of metal over a rusted out piece solves anything. I am cutting out all of it and going back with fresh metal, because I believe the rusty metal will continue to rust and weaken the patch if you don't cut it out and replace it. My 2 cents.

[hobo]

Originally Posted by 8man

I don't have as much experience as a lot of guys on here, but I don't think putting one piece of metal over a rusted out piece solves anything. I am cutting out all of it and going back with fresh metal, because I believe the rusty metal will continue to rust and weaken the patch if you don't cut it out and replace it. My 2 cents.

I totally agree with you on that one. I noticed that they put a new firewall sheet in though and laid it on top of the new metal that they had welded in as well. Even though neither are "rusty" at this point, I have to believe that moisture could get trapped and cause rust more quickly.

The joys of taking on another person(s)' project!

Thanks!

[8man]

LOL, I have 2 projects, completely dissembled by the PO as a project and I bought a truck bed and a trailer full of parts. I'm just now finding out what parts I don't have. Good thing I am enjoying this stuff!

[NorCalGal]

You’re moving along pretty good there, wish I had your motivation.

[hobo]

Originally Posted by NorCalGal

You’re moving along pretty good there, wish I had your motivation.

I've seen your build - your talents and fab skills are worlds away from mine! I'm just a beginner hack playin' with a MIG welder. LOL!

[joedoh]

let me clear up, in case there was confusion, the clamp the pieces/cut both sides method is only to get the new piece to line up exactly with the old piece. you dont leave any of the old metal behind the new metal. I think I left a picture out of my previous post.

clamp and cut


remove old piece


weld in new



clamping it and cutting it saves a lot of hours fitting the patch, it already fits because you cut out the old metal and cut the patch at the same time.

[8man]

Now that makes sense. Thanks.

[hobo]

Bed was welded on by PO, so took a little time to remove it last night so I could get to the cab corners for repair. Yep, I know there's still some green paint I need to sand off too:




Taking off the paint and bondo (a LOT of bondo) revealed some patches by a PO. Needed to straighten my tape a little too before cutting...




Cut the corner off. Easy to see where I still need to remove some of the PO's spray-in foam. Wish I could have used Russ' idea of clamping the new piece and cutting both at the same time, but the frame got in the way...

[Matt_50]

My cab corners were similar... a lot of bondo and a couple of laid overvthevtop patches... took me a few months into build to get the courage to do them lol. If I warped floor at least I could cover it but not the corners.

Is there a lot of bondo on the roof or were flush rivets used?

[8man]

Just keep at it. It's looking good.

[joedoh]

seeing how low your cab is on the frame, it looks like they just bolted it down with no mounts. which makes me wonder why they have such a big notch in the back, I would bet the truck would lay running boards without the axle even coming near the frame. maybe the truck was a lowered s10 before the swap, I have seen guys do that before.


that cab corner is a mess, make sure you have lots of ventilation when you weld in the patch, that foam is gonna STINK.

[hobo]

Originally Posted by Matt_50

My cab corners were similar... a lot of bondo and a couple of laid overvthevtop patches... took me a few months into build to get the courage to do them lol. If I warped floor at least I could cover it but not the corners.

Is there a lot of bondo on the roof or were flush rivets used?

Since this old girl has been chopped, shortened, yada yada yada I know she'll never be more than a hotrod cruiser to me Matt, so I guess I'm a LITTLE less concerned about doing damage as I learn this stuff.

As for the roof, I haven't even looked. I'm not even sure why it was cut in half, but then again I've never chopped a car either. Judging by what I've seen thus far, I can't imaging anything more than a ton of bondo up there. LOL!

[hobo]

Originally Posted by joedoh

seeing how low your cab is on the frame, it looks like they just bolted it down with no mounts. which makes me wonder why they have such a big notch in the back, I would bet the truck would lay running boards without the axle even coming near the frame. maybe the truck was a lowered s10 before the swap, I have seen guys do that before.


that cab corner is a mess, make sure you have lots of ventilation when you weld in the patch, that foam is gonna STINK.

Judging from the notched frame in the rear and the welded washers on the control arms in the front (and the fact that the control arms were notched for articulation), I think it had hydraulics in a past life.

[hobo]

Originally Posted by 8man

Just keep at it. It's looking good.

If nothing else, this Harley/engine guy is gaining some confidence with body work and welding that I've never done before...

[8man]

Yeah, I spent 40 years at a desk. When I was ready to start my truck I had to buy tools to do anything, and then learn how to use them. MAN is that learning curve STEEP!

I have to admit, I'm really enjoying working with my hands and learning this stuff. The little Lincoln MIG I got with the .023 easy grind wire has made some of my welds look better than I am. I look at others work and just marvel at the artisanship. Nice bunch of guys too and VERY supportive.

Keep at it.

[hobo]

Originally Posted by 8man

Yeah, I spent 40 years at a desk. When I was ready to start my truck I had to buy tools to do anything, and then learn how to use them. MAN is that learning curve STEEP!

I have to admit, I'm really enjoying working with my hands and learning this stuff. The little Lincoln MIG I got with the .023 easy grind wire has made some of my welds look better than I am. I look at others work and just marvel at the artisanship. Nice bunch of guys too and VERY supportive.

Keep at it.

I agree with the forum crew here - very supportive and similar to what I've found in other Harley/plane forums...Except on those boards I'm giving more of the advice than receiving, so I REALLY appreciate the help here.

I've heard a lot about the easy grind .023 but haven't found any locally or online. I'll nab some if I do though...I grind a lot. :-)

[dsraven]

I have to agree with joedoh on the panel replacement theory. her is how i handle these things.
place the new patch over the old patch. use a piece of wood or angle iron or something clamped to the neighboring metal to line things up and provide a constant reference. scribe a line next to the patch panel outline
take the patch panel off.
use a thin zip disc to cut inside the line about a 1/2 inch so the hole is smaller than the patch piece. remove the old rusty stuff
place the patch over the spot and see how it lines up
keep trimming until the patch fits
use body clamps like these to hold the parts together with an equal distance all around. if mig welding the gap between the panels should be about the same thickness as the mig wire you are using. sometimes the body clamps are a bit thicker though. play it by ear on this one

https://www.faithfulltools.com/p/FAI...Clamps-4-Piece

cut the new piece to fit accordingly.most patch panels don't really fit well but they are better than fabbing a new part from scratch. pie cut or whatever it takes to get the contour right. keep it all lined up with the clamps previously mentioned
when it is all good start tacking the new piece in. just tack, not fully weld. start at one end and place a tack, go to the other end, place a tack. place a tack in the middle etc. keep going sporadically until you end up with tack welds about an inch apart all the way around
ok, now the patience thing is about to start and will REALLY pay off if you can just leave it alone after each weld
start with a short weld between tacks, so an inch max. weld it then hammer on dolly on the weld to plannish the weld and expand the metal so when it cools and shrinks it will be the right size. now walk away. have another project you can keep busy with until the weld and surrounding area cools off enough so you would comfortably be able to place your tongue on the weld.
now do another weld in another place about an inch long. same same. plannish, walk away.
keep going until the whole thing is done
use a course flap disc to level the weld down to the same as the surrounding metal. keeping in mind that grinding or flap discing is also heating the area and this heat is also distorting the area. keep your cool because extra time spent here is waaaaaay easier than doing the bodywork on a distorted panel later
try not to do those overlapping joints because they are a rust problem just waiting to happen. I know, they weld easier, but they are problematic.

if you don't have any yet, a set of cleco pliers and some 1/8" (copper colored) cleco fasteners are a big time saver. they are like a removable rivet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DcNvt9_O3Q

[dsraven]

you can use the cleco rivets between the parts if you drill a spot so the cleco's will fit between the two parts but still leave the right space for the weld. the cleco's themselves are too thick to rely on their gap to be right so if you simply make a wide spot where the cleco's go you should be fine as long as the gap between the parts is still about the same as your mig wire thickness along the remaining length of the gap. use a flat washer behind the 2 parts for the cleco to bite on and keep things lined up.

[dsraven]

I have looked for the easy grind wire and found it is waaaay more cashola than the regular mig wire

[hobo]

Originally Posted by dsraven

I have looked for the easy grind wire and found it is waaaay more cashola than the regular mig wire

Thanks for all the info Raven! I DO have those clamps already, and have looked into the Cleckos but never bought any yet - but will likely do so soon.

Appreciate it!

[hobo]

Didn't have much time this weekend but DID manage to get it cleaned up a little for the new metal. Had trouble getting the new inner cab corner to fit (imagine that!), so I need to do some more cutting/massaging before laying any weld...

[dsraven]

those sheet metal clamps work great. they also space the 2 parts well for a good weld. I have a bunch of them and used nearly all the other day on a project. the cleco's are also invaluable, especially if working by yourself. they are like another hand. if you can hold the part up long enough to get a cleco in the predrilled hole then it will help hold the part in place while you get another cleco installed, or, they hold things in place while you fit other areas on some of those parts with more than one piece/angle to work with. some good strong magnets are also invaluable when you are working by yourself. great for panel alignment etc. not so great to weld next to. they disrupt the mig weld and cause porosity. a little messy tack is better, with the panels lined up correctly, than a good tack you gotta grind off because the parts aren't fit well. the little messy tack can be ground off and redone when the magnet is removed and the panel is properly tacked elsewhere.

[dsraven]

looks like you need to jack the cab off the frame so you can get the patches on straight and proper. maybe a 2x4 spacer tool. you can buy in bulk at lowes, lol.
another great little tool is a small sand blaster. it gets into those rusty spots where you can't quite reach with the grinder or wire wheel. a 5 gallon bucket size works awesome. gotta have the compressor sized big enough to run it though. clean panels (on both sides) always leave a better weld because there is less chance of contamination from stuff in/on the metal. crap on the back side also gets drawn into the weld.

[dsraven]

if you are having trouble fitting a patch panel, especially on a spot where you can get to both sides, simply cut an easily cut out shape of patch a bit bigger than the hole. hold it over the spot and mark the body to fit the patch. use a thin zip disc on a small disc grinder or use a thin zip disc on the air grinder. whatever, the constant here is the thin zip disc. it will leave the correct space between the parts for the weld. the patch panel fits the hole properly because you made a square patch and cut the body to fit the patch instead of the other way around. then tack the patch in different areas, allowing things to cool between each weld. tack, hammer on dolly over the tack while still hot, tack somewhere else out of the heat zone. the hammer on dolly thing expands the weld so when it cools down it is the same size as the surrounding metal. do the tacks all around till you end up with tacks about an inch or less between each tack. if your gap is big then space the tacks about 1/4" apart so it is easier to connect the dots when welding. use a copper backer behind if required. a piece of flattened out copper pipe works well enough and is cheap if you know a plumber. I have several different shapes made from about 2" copper pipe that I flattened in the vice. all they do is stop the weld metal from falling out the back side of the weld, plus help cool the spot. weld doesn't stick to the copper. what I have found to work well for the actual welding process on thin stuff is to weld a small spot, like a second of weld time, leave the wire in the puddle and it will freeze in there, wait a second till the hot spot cools in your weld visor view, then hit it again and do another second of weld. leaving the wire in the weld puddle means you start the weld in the right place and there is no "strike" contamination from starting the weld and finding the right spot plus you don't have to cut the wire each time to get the chisel tip so the wire can "strike" the arc properly. do this weld sequence 4 maybe 5 times then pull away on the last weld and hammer on dolly the spot right away. allow to cool before going to the next spot. have another project you can work on to consume time so you are not tempted to go back and weld more before the thing cools off to the same temp as the steel around the weld. then you just connect the dots between the tacks with weld. hammer on dolly each weld the same as the tacks and keep a handle on warpage as it occurs, don't wait till the whole panel is done and then spend the next 6 months working the panel back straight again. let the thing cool off so you can stick your tongue on the metal before welding again. ok, don't lick your truck, just use that thought process, lol.
from experience I have found that when you mig weld you need to consider what the welder is doing for you. it is a spool of wire that a has a little motor set up that pushes wire down the hose to the contact tip at the end. if the contact tip is dirty, like a lot of times it is because of the "learning" thing or just because of the position you are welding in, then there is more friction to get the wire through the dirty tip and the little motor can have a harder time pushing the wire down the hose. this can affect the wire speed. the hose has a liner in it that also creates friction. the wire picks up dirt from the ambient area and, unless you have a cleaner on the wire as it feeds into the rollers, the dirt can get sent down the hose inside the liner. more friction for the little motor to overcome. then the hose gets bent and twisted around to fit into the area where you are welding. this creates more friction in the hose at each bend or twist so the little feeder set up has a harder time sending the wire down the hose at a consistent rate. long story short, use a cleaner on the wire in the welder, keep the contact tip clean, try not to have too many bends in the hose from the welder to the tip and manage the hose well. don't step on the hose or drive over it with the welding cart because this crushes the hose and liner and the friction level goes up. the liner looks like a piece of a bicycle brake cable sheathing. imagine that with a small flat spot or a kink. friction in the liner will affect the weld because the wire speed keeps changing as the hose is moved when you weld. if, when welding, the wire is always trying to burn back to the contact tip then check the hose for bends etc and if all good turn the wire speed(amperage) up some or turn the setting (voltage) down some to match. if the weld is spattering all over the place and seems hard to get started because the weld builds up fast, then once you get it going it seems to always leave a lot of metal to grind off, then turn the wire speed down some or the voltage setting up some. in general, if there is a lot of splatter it is because the voltage is too low or the amperage is too high or the stick out is too long. with mig the voltage is preset by whatever setting you place the welder at. the amperage is controlled with the wire speed knob. too low of a voltage means turn the welder up to the next setting. too much amperage means turn the wire speed down some or check the amount of stick out you are using. also, the gas that comes down the hose to clean the metal has an affect on the weld. if the nozzle is sticking out way past the contact tip then the wire has a longer distance to travel before it contacts the project and the voltage is affected. just like too much gap on a spark plug has an affect on whether the spark will jump the gap nicely. this can have an affect on the weld because the wire tends to get hotter and burn back to the tip faster than if the tip is flush with the nozzle, especially if the wire speed is a bit slow and also the longer wire tends to move in and out of the puddle and get a little ball of hot metal on the end which tends to burn back to the tip. if the gap between the nozzle and the project is too big this also affects the ability of the shielding gas to clean the metal and keep the spatter and porosity down. if the wire speed is turned up then the puddle spatters more because it is a bigger puddle and there is more metal coming at it plus more amperage. I like to keep the nozzle about flush with the contact tip and keep the nozzle tip clean. there are some nozzle dips available that I use once in awhile when the tip is hot so the tip just melts the waxy dip into the end of the nozzle and coats the parts.
anyway, not to inandate you with my views. hopefully some of it is relevant to you and helps somebody. it is certainly not from any welding school. my welding is all self taught like most guys on here.

here is a couple of links talking about the basics of mig welding operation, stick out and related things. one shows an automated welder with the different stick outs and how the weld is affected

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KrwmK7df-s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdF4rgOVEfI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYEgeRfUXXs