Doing LS Swap - I have no idea what I'm doing!

[EagleChief]

Originally Posted by jessemthompson

Pull the radiator, disconnect heater hoses, unbolt trans mount, disconnect throttle linkage, disconnect fuel lines

Thanks! I already have the heater hoses undone. I haven't pulled the radiator yet, as I still have the transmission lines hooked up (didn't want them leaking all over the floor).

[EagleChief]

Hopefully, I'll get to work on the truck sometime this week. I wish I had the time that a lot of you guys have to work on projects. That's why I'm afraid this is going to be a marathon process.

Wiring harness - I know there have been some recommendations already. But, has anyone used the Holley Terminator X, or the FiTech Standalone harness ( https://fitechefi.com/product/ultima...trans-control/ )?

I'm leaning toward using the FiTech for a complete set up. For my basic install, no add-ons for extra power, it seams like a great way to get going. No extra tuning needed down the road, as it's all done on the fly. By the time I get a harness made, or purchase a pre-made harness, flash the cpu, get a tune or 2 done to get the truck running - I'm almost at the same price point as the FiTech.

[LS short box]

I haven't use either the Holley or FItech but it seems like the way to go if you are planning future mods. The folks over on LS1tech seem to like the Holley efi better than the FItech efi.
Me I like the OEM GM efi. My builds are fairly mild so tuning the GM ECM is typically easy.
My biggest concern with any aftermarket supplier is will they be in business tomorrow? I'm not suggesting either company is going out of business but customer support after the sale is very important both in to regards technical assistance and replacement parts.
You are going to find replacement GM parts at the closest parts store.

[biketopia]

For what it's worth, if you are going with just a stock/mild build on your truck the factory stuff is fine, take an evening and look over the harness real good, but I would not be scared to run the stock harness to keep progress moving, you can always change things up down the road. If you want to get into tuning, and modifying etc, then I would 100% hands down go with the holley. If you are on facebook there are a few really good groups on there about the terminator/hp/dominator set up. And all of them will give you some really good recommendations on where to buy from, shops that install those systems every day and can 100% help with after the sale issues. It's not un heard of for people to be on the phone with Holley tech for over an hour on hold, so having a vendor that can walk you though any issues is huge. Deleting vats and rear 02's etc is something any competent mail order tuner can handle. Yes it's a few days down while you mail an ECU off, but if you are doing a stock set up, the holley is not being used anywhere near to it's potential, other than the self learning and then YOU have the ability to tinker with the tune. There's also plenty of local tuners that can tune with HPTunners, just gotta find em, again if you're not going for max effort then most anyone with a decent reputation in the community should be more than capable.

You said you ordered fuel line, from amazon. What did you order? I got some AN fittings from there in a pinch to save a few bucks on my Camaro build. Almost burnt up my 427SBC and left me on the side of the road multiple times because of crap fittings. They necked WAY down under -6, were sharp and damaged the inside of the hose causing a blockage and wreaking havoc on fuel pressure and causing me to go super lean.

My brother used to build hotrods for a living and he's told me numerous times through my few builds, sit down and write out your goals for the truck. Think about it, for a few days if needed, do you want a cruiser, a show truck, all out power, corner carver, daily driver. Then you can tailor your parts search and questions towards those goals, stock 300+hp and fuel injection goes down the road quite nicely with no need for headers or a cam swap, but if you want some lope a summit low lift truck cam can give you that for not a lot of money, but then it can snow ball into "well if I'm doing this, I should do that". If you are getting a motor with VVT or DOD, me personally, I would budget in a cam swap with new lifters and trays. Without knowing the maintenance history of the engine, poor Air filter and oil change habits are horrible to the dod lifters. When they fail you have a dead hole, hopefully they just collapse, and not lock up the roller and send a bunch of metal though the motor.

All in all you've gotten some really good advise and seem to have a grasp on what you are doing. Don't be scared to do it yourself, even a single guy with no family isn't going to build a truck in a weekend, get the family into it, car shows, cruise ins, swap meets, bench racing, busting nuts and bolts lose it helps. I'd also check out LS1Tech, TONS of info on the ls engines, swaps, upgrades, tuning, diagnosis, etc. It has it's up and downs of traffic but the OG guys that are still over there are more than willing to help out.

[EagleChief]

Originally Posted by biketopia

For what it's worth, if you are going with just a stock/mild build on your truck the factory stuff is fine, take an evening and look over the harness real good, but I would not be scared to run the stock harness to keep progress moving, you can always change things up down the road. If you want to get into tuning, and modifying etc, then I would 100% hands down go with the holley. If you are on facebook there are a few really good groups on there about the terminator/hp/dominator set up. And all of them will give you some really good recommendations on where to buy from, shops that install those systems every day and can 100% help with after the sale issues. It's not un heard of for people to be on the phone with Holley tech for over an hour on hold, so having a vendor that can walk you though any issues is huge. Deleting vats and rear 02's etc is something any competent mail order tuner can handle. Yes it's a few days down while you mail an ECU off, but if you are doing a stock set up, the holley is not being used anywhere near to it's potential, other than the self learning and then YOU have the ability to tinker with the tune. There's also plenty of local tuners that can tune with HPTunners, just gotta find em, again if you're not going for max effort then most anyone with a decent reputation in the community should be more than capable.

You said you ordered fuel line, from amazon. What did you order? I got some AN fittings from there in a pinch to save a few bucks on my Camaro build. Almost burnt up my 427SBC and left me on the side of the road multiple times because of crap fittings. They necked WAY down under -6, were sharp and damaged the inside of the hose causing a blockage and wreaking havoc on fuel pressure and causing me to go super lean.

My brother used to build hotrods for a living and he's told me numerous times through my few builds, sit down and write out your goals for the truck. Think about it, for a few days if needed, do you want a cruiser, a show truck, all out power, corner carver, daily driver. Then you can tailor your parts search and questions towards those goals, stock 300+hp and fuel injection goes down the road quite nicely with no need for headers or a cam swap, but if you want some lope a summit low lift truck cam can give you that for not a lot of money, but then it can snow ball into "well if I'm doing this, I should do that". If you are getting a motor with VVT or DOD, me personally, I would budget in a cam swap with new lifters and trays. Without knowing the maintenance history of the engine, poor Air filter and oil change habits are horrible to the dod lifters. When they fail you have a dead hole, hopefully they just collapse, and not lock up the roller and send a bunch of metal though the motor.

All in all you've gotten some really good advise and seem to have a grasp on what you are doing. Don't be scared to do it yourself, even a single guy with no family isn't going to build a truck in a weekend, get the family into it, car shows, cruise ins, swap meets, bench racing, busting nuts and bolts lose it helps. I'd also check out LS1Tech, TONS of info on the ls engines, swaps, upgrades, tuning, diagnosis, etc. It has it's up and downs of traffic but the OG guys that are still over there are more than willing to help out.

I really appreciate the feedback and advice. I am currently looking at going with the FiTech setup over the Holley. 1) It's $300 less than Holley, 2) I like the idea of plug and play - no extra tuning or flashing down the road, and 3) all new wires in the harness. I know a OEM harness and CPU would be fine for what I need, but when I get into having someone strip down the wiring, flash the CPU, and tune the truck, I'm already close to what I'm paying for the FiTech harness.

Here is the fuel line kit I purchased - https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 . It is PTFE line with braided exterior. A friend of mine just used it on his Camaro when he went EFI and really liked it. Said the fit, finish, and quality was great.

This is going to be a driver, cruiser type truck. I don't hot rod or do burnouts, too much . As of now, I don't see any upgrades to the stock engine. Now, I can't rule that out down the road, but as of right now, it'll stay stock. I'll probably end up with headers and have the exhaust built for the truck. Probably an air intake as well - I like the AEM reusable dry filters.

The family does enjoy the truck. My 4 yr old son claimed it as his the day I brought it home. The wife is on board with it and enjoys the car shows. She has her own truck ('73 F100 that was her Grandpa's) that is currently in the body shop getting some rusty metal fixed.

[skyphix]

Originally Posted by EagleChief

I really appreciate the feedback and advice. I am currently looking at going with the FiTech setup over the Holley. 1) It's $300 less than Holley, 2) I like the idea of plug and play - no extra tuning or flashing down the road, and 3) all new wires in the harness. I know a OEM harness and CPU would be fine for what I need, but when I get into having someone strip down the wiring, flash the CPU, and tune the truck, I'm already close to what I'm paying for the FiTech harness.

Here is the fuel line kit I purchased - https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 . It is PTFE line with braided exterior. A friend of mine just used it on his Camaro when he went EFI and really liked it. Said the fit, finish, and quality was great.

This is going to be a driver, cruiser type truck. I don't hot rod or do burnouts, too much . As of now, I don't see any upgrades to the stock engine. Now, I can't rule that out down the road, but as of right now, it'll stay stock. I'll probably end up with headers and have the exhaust built for the truck. Probably an air intake as well - I like the AEM reusable dry filters.

The family does enjoy the truck. My 4 yr old son claimed it as his the day I brought it home. The wife is on board with it and enjoys the car shows. She has her own truck ('73 F100 that was her Grandpa's) that is currently in the body shop getting some rusty metal fixed.

Your reasons for going FiTech are the exact reasons I went PSI - all new wiring, plug, start, and drive... but PSI comes with factory reliability. I've not had experience with the FiTech LS stuff, but haven't seen great things from their other stuff. PSI works out to about the same cost when you add up FiTech with transmission control (if you need it, I can't recall what transmission you're using.) As an FYI, the Holley is plug and play as well - plug it in, walk through their setup, and it self learns based on the stuff you put in... sort of the same as the FiTech setup. I'll be doing some FiTech tuning this winter on a carb conversion setup (not LS based, person just has no idea how to do computer controlled stuff and went the cheapest route he could) so if you do go that route, I'll be interested to hear how the LS stuff goes.

[biketopia]

Originally Posted by skyphix

Your reasons for going FiTech are the exact reasons I went PSI - all new wiring, plug, start, and drive... but PSI comes with factory reliability. I've not had experience with the FiTech LS stuff, but haven't seen great things from their other stuff. PSI works out to about the same cost when you add up FiTech with transmission control (if you need it, I can't recall what transmission you're using.) As an FYI, the Holley is plug and play as well - plug it in, walk through their setup, and it self learns based on the stuff you put in... sort of the same as the FiTech setup. I'll be doing some FiTech tuning this winter on a carb conversion setup (not LS based, person just has no idea how to do computer controlled stuff and went the cheapest route he could) so if you do go that route, I'll be interested to hear how the LS stuff goes.

Yeaa FiTech doen't have the greatest reputation, at least to me. My brothers shop replaced countless FiTech set ups over the years with Holley snipper type set ups. The support you will get from a holley aftermarket set up I feel is far and away much better than fitech. Even though I think for your set up, I'd spend a weekend or a few evenings after work laying out the factory harness on a bench or piece of ply wood and removing what you don't need. Tons and tons and tons of write ups on this, with pictures, and tools, and part#'s of anything you might and don't need. As long as the wrecking yard didn't get lazy I'm sure the GM harness will last you easily another 5-10+ years. Then you've also checked it over and have the opportunity to inspect it and know it, and have a couple hundred bucks to spend on other things. You can always go back in a year or 4 after you've been enjoying the truck that much sooner and r&r the harness with something new if you feel the need. I guarantee you there is someone close to you that you can have flash the gm ECM to run and drive for you for little more than the cost of the credits since you're not doing any type of engine upgrades.

[EagleChief]

Well, dang. Now you guys have me second guessing my harness decision.

[biketopia]

Make an account or just go look around on ls1tech at the "hybrids and conversions" area. Lots of long, good reading on people's builds of swapping into a lot of old GM iron, with very budget minded builds. A lot of pictures as well. There's one into a G-body that they guy was VERY thorough about how did stuff, and his work arounds, he re worked his own harness and showed a lot of the steps and where he found his info. If I can find that thread I'll link.

I'm just giving you my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions haha. Like I said earlier, lay out ALL your options, and weight the pro's and cons, cost vs time, etc etc, ask questions, information is free.

[skyphix]

Originally Posted by biketopia

I'm just giving you my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions haha. Like I said earlier, lay out ALL your options, and weight the pro's and cons, cost vs time, etc etc, ask questions, information is free.

Same here, just giving an opinion that should be taken with a large grain of salt. Hah! I am really happy with the PSI stuff I got, and only wish I had gone Holley so I could just immediately be tuning it and thats just because I am a tinkerer and computer-based anything is my specialty (career.) Instant startup, reliability, ease of connectivity, platform compatibility (ODBII so I can use a cheap bluetooth adapter and tablet for gauges for the time being) all are reasons I went PSI and that has not disappointed at all. In fact, the next project car will be getting PSI stuff since that will be more "set it and forget it" than my truck is/will be.


I should know more about FiTech in general this winter, as I mentioned. A family member needs some help setting it up and tuning a carb conversion on a gen 1 SBC he had built for a 65 Nova/4 Speed combo.

[biketopia]

https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...71-c-10-a.html here is good long thread on LS1tech about swapping a c10

[Thealien]

Originally Posted by biketopia

https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...71-c-10-a.html here is good long thread on LS1tech about swapping a c10

And he is a member here and even posted in this thread.

[EagleChief]

Originally Posted by biketopia

https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...71-c-10-a.html here is good long thread on LS1tech about swapping a c10

Originally Posted by Thealien

And he is a member here and even posted in this thread.

Yea, I read his thread and have it saved. The hard thing about it - there's SO much information out there, that trying to decipher/filter all the different variations to get similar results to what I'm doing.

[Thealien]

Originally Posted by EagleChief

Yea, I read his thread and have it saved. The hard thing about it - there's SO much information out there, that trying to decipher/filter all the different variations to get similar results to what I'm doing.

I have spent many many days and hours researching my swaps. You need to sit down and make out a plan of exactly what you want to end up with. Then start making a list of parts needed and questions that you need answered. And when you get stuck post up some questions here and on LS1 tech And I'm sure some of us will do our best to help you.

With that being said I will admit I am a moron.I have bought parts then I changed my mind after buying them. Don't make the same stakes as me as it gets expensive. We are in the best time for the swaps though. There are so many parts available now that were not available 10 years ago And many are inexpensive.

[biketopia]

If I were in your shoes, I'd figure out what engine and trans I'm getting and settle on that. Then what swap mounts you are getting, then, if the engine isn't leaking anything, and you don't need to go into the trans, put them in the truck. Down and dirty strip your own harness or snag a good one off ebay or your local pick a part. Talk to one of the local guys you've been talking to already about swaps and ask who locally could turn off VATS, rear O2's, etc, have that done and then get to enjoy the truck again. You can always go back and change wiring, you can always pull the radiator and pop the heads off and slide a cam in, you can pull the manifolds and swap to headers later. If you keep it a "driver" you're less likely to get overwhelmed with it and put it on the back burner. My truck came off the road officially 5 years ago, and I haven't done much of anything to it since. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a huge order of suspension goodies to get it back to a roller and hopefully that will motivate me to keep making progress.

[Pitpig]

Just got mine to start. Made my own harness with lt1 swap instructions. I knew nothing about harnesses before this, but just followed the steps without overthinking it. If you have the original harness it will save you $500 to $1000. Downside is the pcm must mount under hood. I put where the factory did, on Drivers side inner fender

[EagleChief]

Originally Posted by biketopia

If I were in your shoes, I'd figure out what engine and trans I'm getting and settle on that. Then what swap mounts you are getting, then, if the engine isn't leaking anything, and you don't need to go into the trans, put them in the truck. Down and dirty strip your own harness or snag a good one off ebay or your local pick a part. Talk to one of the local guys you've been talking to already about swaps and ask who locally could turn off VATS, rear O2's, etc, have that done and then get to enjoy the truck again. You can always go back and change wiring, you can always pull the radiator and pop the heads off and slide a cam in, you can pull the manifolds and swap to headers later. If you keep it a "driver" you're less likely to get overwhelmed with it and put it on the back burner. My truck came off the road officially 5 years ago, and I haven't done much of anything to it since. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a huge order of suspension goodies to get it back to a roller and hopefully that will motivate me to keep making progress.

Originally Posted by Pitpig

Just got mine to start. Made my own harness with lt1 swap instructions. I knew nothing about harnesses before this, but just followed the steps without overthinking it. If you have the original harness it will save you $500 to $1000. Downside is the pcm must mount under hood. I put where the factory did, on Drivers side inner fender

This is probably my best bet - and, the way to go. I like the idea of not having to spend $1000.

[Custom 68]

It has gotten pretty common and easy with all the recourses to make your own harness, but you will still need the computer work done. I went this route and even stepped up to hptuners. Now I can make changes at will.
On the flip side my buddy has done 2 swaps with Fitech. One was their complete system. This included the intake and injectors and all. This one he ran for a while then sold the car. It was in a 69 Camaro. The second was the wiring and computer only, he ran it stock for a bit then added a turbo. He does not have their trans controller. He has had very good luck with them and even had good things to say about their customer service.
All that said you are correct there seems to be quite a bit of problems and bad reports on their customer service but his dealings were positive.

[3767]

I’m going thru my first swap myself, so I can u derstand what u are going thru. I totally agree that u need to sit down and get a plan of what u want out of all this. I can tell u if u get a dod motor, just go ahead and get new lifters and trays. From all I’ve seen with these engines, u really need 2 know the history on the motor or ur just asking for trouble. If u think u want a little more than stock, a stage 2 cam can give u some sound and bump the hp closer to 375. Sticking with a low lift(under .570 lift) u can use the ls6 springs. I’m going with the terminator x system from Holley. Nothing wrong with a factory computer but by the time u get a mail order tune, get a psi harness, and then take it to a chassis Dino shop to dial n, u could have bought the Holley set up and let it tune its self . If u are interested n the Holley, please reach out to mcb parts. They have them on sale . They are more than a sight sponsor, they are good people to deal with. Whatever u do, I truly wish u the best of luck. Like u I’m hoping all this will yield a better running package than the old gen1 was going to give.

[EagleChief]

Just a quick update: Pulled the old 350/700r4 out yesterday. First time to pull a motor, and did it by myself. Wasn't as bad as I was expecting. Had to grab a neighbor once, to help remove the hood and set it aside. Then, grabbed my other neighbor once I got the motor out to try and maneuver the hoist and motor around on my driveway - it slopes down away from the house. That was a beast.

Now to take some pictures of the 350/700r4 and get it listed for sale. Then, work on cleaning up the engine bay and wiring to get prepped for the replacement!

[notsolo]

Progress foward, very good. When you get all set to reverse this process, make sure the feet/ stablizer wheels are extended. It may take some extra thought to Keep it Safe on uneven ground....and stable while you get it set.

[Captainfab]

It's too late now, but that 350/700R4 would have been much easier to sell and for more money if you had advertised it while it was still in the truck so it could be ran and driven. Just sayin.

[bigmoe]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

It's too late now, but that 350/700R4 would have been much easier to sell and for more money if you had advertised it while it was still in the truck so it could be ran and driven. Just sayin.

I was thinking the same thing. At the very least I would have done a video.

[EagleChief]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

It's too late now, but that 350/700R4 would have been much easier to sell and for more money if you had advertised it while it was still in the truck so it could be ran and driven. Just sayin.

Originally Posted by bigmoe

I was thinking the same thing. At the very least I would have done a video.

I'm sure you're right. But, it's going to go for cheap, so I'm not too worried about it.

[EagleChief]

Originally Posted by notsolo

Progress foward, very good. When you get all set to reverse this process, make sure the feet/ stablizer wheels are extended. It may take some extra thought to Keep it Safe on uneven ground....and stable while you get it set.

I had the stabilizers out - to me, that's just common sense.

I have enough flat area to use, that I should be ok. Thanks for the heads-up, though. I appreciate you looking out for me.