1976 Square "Simple Green"

[LostMy65]

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

The FiTech does not have a ground wire it ground thought the studs on the intake. And I will argue until I am blue in the face about how I have it hooked up. Lol. The junction block is tied into the battery.

I guess that's what I'm getting at.
Not that you've done anything wrong, but that they may have a design glitch. Maybe they shouldn't have attempted to use the base studs for grounding.

[swampbog]

I have junction blocks in my Jeep, both for ground and 12V.
Because of that I think it has anything to do with the junction block. All the junction block does is act like a remote post for the battery, it's direct line to the battery.
I'm more leery on the ground, but I'm bias because that is usually the majority of the issues I run in to on my electrical problems on my Jeep. Hench why I have so many dedicated grounds

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by diceman50

I have a friend who installed one on a Bronco. Engine would start and then die. Changed the battery and it ran great for a while. Then it wouldn't start at all. It burned up a couple of the pins in the power connector. (the yellow one) He sent it back to FiTech and I have not heard the outcome.

I am getting ready to put one on a friends 69 Camaro. We have already decided if we have any of these issues we will just use the throttle body and the injectors and run it with a GM computer like we are doing with the Retrotec throttle bodies on my Apache. I hope it doesn't come to that.

That blows. How did he determine he burnt up some pins in the connector.
I would like to see that setup on the Apache.

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by LostMy65

I guess that's what I'm getting at.
Not that you've done anything wrong, but that they may have a design glitch. Maybe they shouldn't have attempted to use the base studs for grounding.

+1 and a beer

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by swampbog

I have junction blocks in my Jeep, both for ground and 12V.
Because of that I think it has anything to do with the junction block. All the junction block does is act like a remote post for the battery, it's direct line to the battery.
I'm more leery on the ground, but I'm bias because that is usually the majority of the issues I run in to on my electrical problems on my Jeep. Hench why I have so many dedicated grounds

I like you more and more everyday lol. I hear ya man that is what I am leaning towards more now after reading some other posts from other users.

[RUN GMC]

So I started to really think about what was going on here and I just remembered in the "Hot Rod to the rescue"section that a guy with a truck had a cold crank issue (Greg says he had to “crank it forever” to get the truck started ) with a 502hp ZZ502 big-block crate motor.....well after re-reading the last statement stood out and it was...(Im not saying you are wrong at all about your grounding) but a good read non the less................

4. Improper electrical grounds: “EFI systems don’t work properly if the grounds don’t go back to the battery’s Negative post.” Sensors operate under minute voltage variations, so any voltage fluctuations, resistance, or drop can introduce erroneous readings. Remember, the circuit’s ground-side is part of the total circuit length, and hence, contributes to resistance and voltage drop. A standard chassis-ground won’t cut it.

.....at the end of the read was the top 4 EFI mistakes this was one.......here is the link to the article.......................

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...over-internet/

.....I hope this shines a light on something we are not seeing...Rod Im sorry for your family's lost at this time........God speed and good luck......

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by LostMy65

I guess that's what I'm getting at.
Not that you've done anything wrong, but that they may have a design glitch. Maybe they shouldn't have attempted to use the base studs for grounding.

My bad wasn't trying to sound like I was snapping at you. I agree with you!! That is why when they told me add a ground strap from the carb stud and run it directly to battery I said why the **** didn't you all add a ground in the system. I got white noise lol.

[diceman50]

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

This is how I described it to Jeremy from FiTech. Imagine it like this battery on the left junction box on the right starter in the middle. They all connect at the start which is the center point. So what would it make a difference connecting at battery vs junction box. It all runs to the starter.

There is a certain amount of resistance in every electrical connection. Sometimes they are so slight that you can't measure them with a common meter but they add up, so the fewer you have the better. Especially if it is a sensitive electronic system you are working on. All my power and ground connections will go to the battery.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by RUN GMC

So I started to really think about what was going on here and I just remembered in the "Hot Rod to the rescue"section that a guy with a truck had a cold crank issue (Greg says he had to “crank it forever” to get the truck started ) with a 502hp ZZ502 big-block crate motor.....well after re-reading the last statement stood out and it was...(Im not saying you are wrong at all about your grounding) but a good read non the less................

4. Improper electrical grounds: “EFI systems don’t work properly if the grounds don’t go back to the battery’s Negative post.” Sensors operate under minute voltage variations, so any voltage fluctuations, resistance, or drop can introduce erroneous readings. Remember, the circuit’s ground-side is part of the total circuit length, and hence, contributes to resistance and voltage drop. A standard chassis-ground won’t cut it.

.....at the end of the read was the top 4 EFI mistakes this was one.......here is the link to the article.......................

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...over-internet/

.....I hope this shines a light on something we are not seeing...Rod Im sorry for your family's lost at this time........God speed and good luck......

I really really think it is a ground issue. But that would be a design flaw on FiTechs part. Cause they sure as hell don't have a ground wire or anything of that nature for the system. They are using the carb studs as the grounds. But when I called and talked and BS with them it was o runs ground from the carb stud to the battery. WTF... Give me a ground already terminated in the harness and let me ground it to the block or frame.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by diceman50

There is a certain amount of resistance in every electrical connection. Sometimes they are so slight that you can't measure them with a common meter but they add up, so the fewer you have the better. Especially if it is a sensitive electronic system you are working on. All my power and ground connections will go to the battery.

Yes I am still going to test it wired direct to the battery so if that and the new grounds fix it. I will let everyone know.

[LostMy65]

Originally Posted by LostMy65

.
I think it's great.
I plan on helping anyway I can with my research.
If enough information is here, FiTech might like to get involved. It can't help but benefit them and the end user. (us).

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

Ken and Jermey know about this thread lol. I have sent them links and talked with them about it and my posts. Plus they like my YouTube video and my truck lol. They know a good truck when they see one lmao.

.
They would do themselves a huge service if they assigned one of their good techs to assisting on a forum level.
.
As it is, they're going to spend many hours doing phone support for people asking the same questions over and over. Assign one member of their team to assist on a forum level, and they can direct customers to their support Forum.
.
I did this years back when hundreds of employees on different schedules were discussing an upcoming contract.
There was no way we could of accomplished what we did unless we would have had several meetings. But then also, nobody's schedules would have lended to a scheduled meeting..
.
So, FiTech should take one of their phone support members, and assign them here to assist in a forum.
They are so limited trying to do their support over the phone.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by LostMy65

.
They would do themselves a huge service if they assigned one of their good techs to assisting on a forum level.
.
As it is, they're going to spend many hours doing phone support for people asking the same questions over and over. Assign one member of their team to assist on a forum level, and they can direct customers to their support Forum.
.
I did this years back when hundreds of employees on different schedules were discussing an upcoming contract.
There was no way we could of accomplished what we did unless we would have had several meetings. But then also, nobody's schedules would have lended to a scheduled meeting..
.
So, FiTech should take one of their phone support members, and assign them here to assist in a forum.
They are so limited trying to do their support over the phone.

I agree with this 100% or do like MSD or Fast start a dedicated forum for support.

[LostMy65]

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

I agree with this 100% or do like MSD or Fast start a dedicated forum for support.

Perfect!
But if they are so swamped they don't have time to build their own, just get one of their guys in here.

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

I like you more and more everyday lol. I hear ya man that is what I am leaning towards more now after reading some other posts from other users.

Aww, I'm kinda sweet on you too

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by swampbog

Aww, I'm kinda sweet on you too

Lmfao!!

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

My bad wasn't trying to sound like I was snapping at you. I agree with you!! That is why when they told me add a ground strap from the carb stud and run it directly to battery I said why the **** didn't you all add a ground in the system. I got white noise lol.

Yeah that's one thing I didn't understand why they don't have one.
I do know they made a bunch of OEM stuff but everyone of those was for a known vehicle or component. When you get to guys (and gals) like us, no two vehicles are the same and we all don't wire things the same way. They need to make it so they can control how people hook it up, e.g. a dedicated ground wire.
Maybe when you call them back up on Monday you point them to this forum and tell them we all are trying to fix a problem with your (literately yours and theirs) EFI. Especially if it turns out to be a ground issue!
How hard would it be to add a wire in to the harness for a ground, or add a wire with a terminal ring to the body and add a slip of paper in the instruction packet stating to attach a dedicated ground wire to this.

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by LostMy65

.
They would do themselves a huge service if they assigned one of their good techs to assisting on a forum level.
.
As it is, they're going to spend many hours doing phone support for people asking the same questions over and over. Assign one member of their team to assist on a forum level, and they can direct customers to their support Forum.
.
I did this years back when hundreds of employees on different schedules were discussing an upcoming contract.
There was no way we could of accomplished what we did unless we would have had several meetings. But then also, nobody's schedules would have lended to a scheduled meeting..
.
So, FiTech should take one of their phone support members, and assign them here to assist in a forum.
They are so limited trying to do their support over the phone.

But they need to support more than one forum site.
I only showed here because of my RodsGreen10 writeup, if I wasn't pulled in because of that I would be up ****s creek if they only supported one forum.
(i know you weren't really saying only here, I wrote this so if they do read this forum they will expand to different forums)

[ray1970]

Ray here.
In the name of science-color cones-nerve endings and the drugs we did in the 80s
What color is it.
1.black.
2.white.
3.gray.
4.After last night every things a blur ask me tomorrow.
5.Dude am color blind don't ask me this stuff.

Put my old battery back in with a charger.. it did start once but not twice.
Just showing how it went and after having one or two Sam Adams am just wasting a little time before I go home..

Ray.(it did go black one time)

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by ray1970

Ray here.
In the name of science-color cones-nerve endings and the drugs we did in the 80s
What color is it.
1.black.
2.white.
3.gray.
4.After last night every things a blur ask me tomorrow.
5.Dude am color blind don't ask me this stuff.

Put my old battery back in with a charger.. it did start once but not twice.
Just showing how it went and after having one or two Sam Adams am just wasting a little time before I go home..

Ray.(it did go black one time)

3 with a little 4 toss in

[RodsGreen10]

Mine is white like the FiTech writing on the handheld. Not that color.

[LostMy65]

Yes, the dedicated red wire and dedicated black wire going straight to the battery terminals on the other units are pretty heavy gauge wire.

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by RUN GMC

So I started to really think about what was going on here and I just remembered in the "Hot Rod to the rescue"section that a guy with a truck had a cold crank issue (Greg says he had to “crank it forever” to get the truck started ) with a 502hp ZZ502 big-block crate motor.....well after re-reading the last statement stood out and it was...(Im not saying you are wrong at all about your grounding) but a good read non the less................

4. Improper electrical grounds: “EFI systems don’t work properly if the grounds don’t go back to the battery’s Negative post.” Sensors operate under minute voltage variations, so any voltage fluctuations, resistance, or drop can introduce erroneous readings. Remember, the circuit’s ground-side is part of the total circuit length, and hence, contributes to resistance and voltage drop. A standard chassis-ground won’t cut it.

.....at the end of the read was the top 4 EFI mistakes this was one.......here is the link to the article.......................

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...over-internet/

.....I hope this shines a light on something we are not seeing...Rod Im sorry for your family's lost at this time........God speed and good luck......

That was an interesting read. It would be so cool if we could do that with the FiTech unit but from what Ray and Rod have found out about the data logging it's very doubtful, maybe their next generation will be better equip to do something like that.

[LostMy65]

Thank you again for this thread.
We've kinda wandered some, but all helpful information that will benefit many in the coming months.
I think once we all start getting our units around the end of January, we'll start building even more trouble shooting discussions.
.
On the topic of wiring, I ran across this somewhat related interesting read.
http://www.corvetteonline.com/tech-s...rancis-wiring/

[ray1970]

Ray here.
It goes black when the cables fall out...This is normal just put more zip ties on it....
I really need to get over that....

Ray..

[RUN GMC]

Originally Posted by LostMy65

On the topic of wiring, I ran across this somewhat related interesting read.
http://www.corvetteonline.com/tech-s...rancis-wiring/

Thanks for that was a very good read...............Im preparing go through wiring on my 98 GMC due to cranking issues.....gonna redo the battery cables and alternator wires first........