It’s Just A Pickup

[Low Elco]

Ah, I should have thrown more info in. It's the yellow truck in my sig. It's a 70, with a 90 Jeep wrangler tank in the back and a 91 Ranger filler assy. No system at all to start with. Currently vented to atmosphere, to avoid the dreaded vacuum problem. Works great, just stinks. The specific question should have been, did that vent line just run to a stock 71 can, or something special? Also, is it a straight vacuum hookup off the motor, or are there switches, valves, and doohickeys involved? Thanks for the help!

[Bruce88]

Originally Posted by Low Elco

Ah, I should have thrown more info in. It's the yellow truck in my sig. It's a 70, with a 90 Jeep wrangler tank in the back and a 91 Ranger filler assy. No system at all to start with. Currently vented to atmosphere, to avoid the dreaded vacuum problem. Works great, just stinks. The specific question should have been, did that vent line just run to a stock 71 can, or something special? Also, is it a straight vacuum hookup off the motor, or are there switches, valves, and doohickeys involved? Thanks for the help!

If I understand your question correctly, you want to convert your atmosphere vented gas tank vent system to an EEC system to eliminate the gas smell in the garage. Yes it can be done with your system, no special Fuel Vapor Canister just for the 71 – 72 trucks has to be used. But there are some other components that need to be added to make a functional system, there are no switches/doohickeys needed for it to work. I’m going to need a few days to gather together some pictures (yes I love to show it in pictures along with writing it out ----- smile), so give me a few days and I will post it hear for you. Also if you have a picture of your fuel tank from the top with the fuel/vent lines installed it would help, I’m not totally familiar with the 1990 jeep wrangler fuel tank.

Bruce

[Low Elco]

Don't wanna threadcrap, unless you'd think it beneficial. I've PM'd you. Thanks for the help!

[Hard Luck]

I would love to see the answer.

[Bruce88]

This post is to help Chip (Low Elco) out in converting his atmospheric vented gas tank to an evaporative emissions control system (EEC) and the components that are needed to have an operative/functional EEC system. Others may find this post a benefit if they want to create an EEC system for their trucks but each individual is going to need to evaluate the system they have and how to incorporate all the components, it’s not hard to find or make the components but where to locate them on your truck can be the hard part.

First I’m going to start off with a safety warning (I know ugggg), but thesis are problems that I’ve run into and seen others have. All the hoses that are in contact with gas or fuel vapors should be able to handle fuel. There are plenty of hoses out there that are made for other things like water or vacuum that are not suitable for handling fuel, they have a good chance of failure over time. I’ve had the parts man try to give me a 5/8 water hose when I wanted a 5/8 fuel vent hose, the hose should be marked for fuel/gas or petroleum.

I always like to see what the factory used to create their EEC system and incorporate their components in my system in some manner. This does not mean that you have to buy specific factory items for a specific year, but in fact you can make some of them rather than trying to find some that the factory used. I will be including some marked up pictures that may be of benefit for understanding and referencing back in my build thread to what I did.

Let’s start with the fuel tank. Not all fuel tanks can be used to make an EEC system, they have to have some other way to vent the fuel tank other than the filler cap. If you have a fuel tank behind the seat that’s vented thru the cap you will probably have to change the fuel tank to incorporate an EEC system. Here are two pictures below that show the differences in factory tanks that can go behind the seat.



Now a common modification is to relocate the fuel tank under the bed. I did this with a blazer style fuel tank and if you look back thru this build thread you can find some pictures of what I did (ref post #301 http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...318544&page=13 ). Chip is using a 1990 Jeep wrangler tank and it has vents other than just thru the gas cap. There are a number of different fuel tanks that can be fitted under the bed and each one may have certain problems in making them fit and function. This post is not trying to address how to install the tank or what tank to use but how to fit an EEC system on one. Again here are some pictures showing what the different factories (Blazer and Jeep) did to create an EEC system.



Chip sent me some pictures of his fuel tank and I’m going to try to identify the vent lines and mark them on the pictures. You need to look at the fuel tank that your using and identify all the lines and what to use them for, we don’t want to hook up the wrong lines.



As you can see in the above picture Chip has many fuel lines on his tank, you will probably have less. You need to look at the tank you have and identify all the lines and determine what ones you are going to use, or cap off. As a minimum you will need three lines on your tank to create an EEC system, Filler tube/Cap, Fuel Feed Line, and Fuel Vent Line. In the above picture I was unable to point to the exact fuel hoses that come out of the fuel sending unit (there are four) as to what each hose hooks up to because the picture is just at the wrong angle to see, but I did point/mark the lines from the bottom of the sending unit. Let look at each hose and figure out what they do and if you’re going to be using them.

1 (Fuel filler vent tube/hose) Just because this hose says vent on some diagrams does not mean that it vents the tank all the time. Its primary purpose is to vent back into the filler tube, so that air can escape from the fuel tank when you’re filling the tank with gas. Generally it’s a hose size of 5/8 to ¾ inch in dia. and you need to use it or you could run into problems in filling the gas tank (very slow filling). Is the hose your using fuel safe, if your parts store can’t supply you with one try NAPA they can get you the larger size fuel hoses.

2 (Fuel filler tube/Cap) From 1973 and newer all gas caps for cars/light trucks are not vented to the atmosphere and you need a non-vented gas cap to create an EEC system. You may find some gas caps that say that there pressure/ vacuum caps, this is a safety feature only and will meet your needs in creating an EEC system. They only relieve pressure/vacuum under extreme conditions if the other vents become inoperative.

3 (Fuel feed/pick up tube) Yes you need this one, this hose goes to your fuel pump to feed your engine (didn’t want to skip a line for total understanding ---- smile). Normally this is about a 3/8 tube/hose, it has to be big enough to supply adequate fuel to the engine.

3 (Fuel return line) This line is for a fuel return that is generally needed for fuel injected engines, Chip’s is not a fuel injected engine and I would cap this line off. The size of this line is about the same size as the fuel line feeding the engine.

4 (fuel vent line on the sending unit) It’s not visible from the bottom of the sending unit but this is the fourth line coming out of the top of the sending unit. The tube/hose size is generally smaller than the fuel feed line but not always. If this was the only vent line on this tank I would use it for the EEC system, but Chip has two other vent lines on his tank (just to simplify the vent line hose runs I would cap this line off at the sending unit, it could be tied into the other vent lines if desired).

5 (2 EEC vent tubes/hoses on the right side of the fuel tank) I would use both of them to create the EEC system. The size of the tubes/hoses are 3/8 or smaller.

For the lines that you decide to cap off I use a safe and simple method. I get a fuel capable hose the size of the tube I want to cap off (about 3 to 4 inches long), two hose clamps, and a steel or aluminum peace of rod the right size for the inside of the hose ( approximately 1 inch long). Slip the hose on the tube insert the rod in the other end clamp both ends and you have a very safe and effective cap. Caps like the ones you could find on the carburetor for capping off vacuum lines are not suitable, they can leak, fall off, or deteriorate. I’ve seen others try to use them, (be safe around fuel components).

Continued in next post

[Bruce88]

The different fuel lines have been sorted out and the remainder of this post is going to be adding the components needed to create an EEC system. The below diagram is just a basic showing the components that are needed for a functional system. The one exception in the diagram is the carburetor fuel bowl vent tube, some carburetors have them some don’t and it’s not absolutely necessary and not all charcoal canisters have a tube fitting for this line, it could be (T) in to the vent line from the fuel tank. I found on older systems that if the carburetor vent is not used or not there it might cause a slight smell in the garage around the carb but not bad.



The first item you’re going to need to make an incorporate in your EEC system is what I call a high loop. The different car/truck manufactures call it by different names, but all of them do the same thing. They prevent gas in a liquid form from getting to the charcoal canister, the canister cannot handle liquid gas and it would just run out the bottom of it (not a good thing to happen).

The high loop is easy to make and cheap, I made mine out of 3/8 aluminum tube but finding the place to install it can be the hard part, you’re going to have to figure this out for your particular truck. The top of the loop needs to be approximately 10 inches above the top of the fuel tank or higher. I would not make it out of a smaller tube because liquid fuel could be forced over the top of the loop and not drain back into the fuel tank. I also would not make the high loop with fuel hose because it could become kinked/compressed blocking the vent system.

The 2 EEC lines on Chip’s tank can be (T) together and then to the one end of the high loop, the other end of the high loop is to the line running forward to the charcoal canister.

There is another option that Chip could use to create a high loop if he wants to locate a Liquid Check Valve that can be seen in an earlier picture in this post (Blazer and Jeep Vent). The Liquid Chick Valve needs to be located approximately 10 inches above the top of the fuel tank. Of course finding and buying one might be higher in cost than a simple high loop but it might be easier to locate it on the truck.

Next you need to run a 3/8 vent line from the high loop to the engine compartment. Normally the factory cars/trucks run this line inside the frame and parallel to the fuel feed line. I try to use as much fuel tube as possible minimizing the use of fuel hose, I feel it’s safer to do with tube instead of hose. This is how I ran mine, ref post #311 http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...318544&page=13 .

In the vent hose just prior to the charcoal canister there needs to be an Orifice/Restrictor, in the factory installation you probably would not be able to see it or even know that it was there. Finding one or buying one is almost impossible, but making one is simple. When using a 3/8 vent hose at the charcoal canister you need to obtain a peace of aluminum or steel rod 3/8 inch in DIA. by ½ inch long and drill a 1/16 DIA. hole thru the center of it. Insert this Orifice/Restrictor in the vent hose, it doesn’t need a clamp to hold it in place. The picture below shows the Orifice/Restrictor on a factory installation.



The factory Charcoal Canister on an EEC systems for the 71 – 72 trucks can be found to the right of the battery. If you can find a canister mounting bracket (grate), if not you’re going to have to make one. The location to the right of the battery or there about appears to be a good location to install one.

Finding a Charcoal Canister for this modification. Finding a used canister for the 71 – 72 trucks is probably impossible and if you do find one it’s probably not functional (cracked, broken, clogged filtering, or inoperative Purge Valve), they do wear out just over time. I did a quick look over the internet (as of this post) and found no replacement canisters being listed or obtainable for the 71 – 72 trucks. (Not is all lost ---- smile) Over many years since EEC systems have been used the charcoal canister has changed very little and their function is basically the same. You can find many different sizes small – large with more than one purge valve on the top and multiple in and out vent lines. I would recommend finding and using one with just one purge valve on top and one in line for the fuel tank vent line and a size similar to the ones used on our trucks (4-1/2 inches DIA X 6 inches tall). No need in trying to figure out what additional lines to cap off or fitting a larger canister.

Here are some pictures of a canister that I found at NAPA that will meet the requirements, it is listed for many different GM cars/trucks from 1973 to 1980. As of this post the canister NAPA part number is CBR 229817 and the approximate cost is about $100.00 dollars. I’m not trying to say that this is the only one you can use and by this manufacture, I’m just using it as an example of what can be found.



The hose size can be different on different canisters and you will need to check their fitting sizes on the one that you’re using. Reference back to the basic EEC system picture to see how to hook up the lines from the canister to the engine.

1 (Top line on purge valve) goes to a timed vacuum port (at idle it has no vacuum, above idle it has vacuum). This one could also be (T) into the distributor vacuum line.

2 (Bottom line on purge valve) is connected to the PCV valve hose, see below picture for options.



As I said earlier in this post you may have or not have the carburetor fuel bowl vent tube depending on the carburetor your using. If you decide to use it, it can be (T) into the vent hose from the fuel tank.

Well that about it, I think that I’ve given you enough information and pictures to create an EEC system on your ride. As with all customizing and bring together of a number of parts from different cars/trucks and years you will be making the decision on what ones to use. Only you can hook it all up, you need to evaluate what you have and what you’re using.

Hay Chip, I did notice a possible problem on your engine (one of the last Pictures on your build thread) There doesn’t seem to be a filter cap on the opposite valve cover from your PCV valve. I’ve seen this problem many times especially when the valve covers have been changed to custom ones. Filtered air needs to enter the opposite valve cover for the PCV system to work correctly. If there’s no way for air to go into the crankcase the PCV valve will not be able to draw the engines internal fumes from the engine.

Enjoy your build
Bruce

[Low Elco]

Wow, you really answer a question! Thanks for the thorough comeback! You have got to part this off and make it a sticky in FAQ. Too much good info to hide in a big thread. Thanks again. The pics are deceiving, that pic was during show prep and Yeller has always had a breather/pcv setup. There's new covers coming anyway, the eddies won't seal. We're getting ready to tear in and fix up some other stuff, we'll probably lay into this then. Thanks again for the assist!
Posted via Mobile Device

[chmurt]

Hello Bruce,

I am a newcomer to the site and I am totally in awe of your detailed build thread. I've spent two days and more gleaning information from it and will continue to refer back to it. I am in the process of restoring a 1971 GMC SWB Fenderside (stepside) which I bought new in Sept. 1970 and, admittedly, didn't take the best care of. Fortunately, being in Southern California, it wasn't often subjected to wet and muddy roads so there hasn't been any major rust problem nor any collision damage.

I too am of the age and can relate very fondly to those days when side mounted spare tires were quite common on pickups. Wish I would have ordered it as an option when I ordered the truck! As a result, I am installing a Side Mounted Wheel Carrier on it which (again admittedly!) has been giving me some mental fits with the fitup aches and pains to install new assemblies. I hope you will be able to take some time to respond to my questions:

1. Do you have any pics of the bottom support bracket under the bedwood and how it fits up and attaches to the vertical supports? (A fitup dimension and hole drilling location headache!)

2. How much clearance do you have between the tire and bedrail and the side of the fender cutout, or are you butting the tire tightly against those areas?

3. The fender Grommet through which the rear bottom leg of the sidemount bracket passes: I finally found one through internet search which is close to original - suitable but flimsy. The one on your installation looks much more substantial and, although it doesn't apply to my installation, I see it it also handles the antenna cable. Can you recommend a source and part number?

4. Do you see a need to coat the bedsides in the fender wells with Herculiner or some other product similar to what the fender insides are coated with? Seems as though there used to be undercoating there.

5. You mention on Page 15 of the thread that you applied Seam Sealer where needed before the painting process at the shop. I will need something like that in areas on the bed and tailgate when readying for paint. Can you recommend a product?

6. I've not mentioned that the front fenders, hood & cowl have been painted but are not fully assembled, although the cab exterior, interior and doors are complete painted and installed. Are the inner fenders installed prior to or after installing the outer fenders? I didn't see that mentioned in your build thread and couldn't tell from the pics.

That's it. Again, with great respect for your detailed notes and finished product and hoping for your reply, I am,

Chuck

I'm having a "H" of a time getting this email to send......

[Bruce88]

Originally Posted by chmurt

Re: It’s Just A Pickup

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Bruce,

I am a newcomer to the site and I am totally in awe of your detailed build thread. I've spent two days and more gleaning information from it and will continue to refer back to it. I am in the process of restoring a 1971 GMC SWB Fenderside (stepside) which I bought new in Sept. 1970 and, admittedly, didn't take the best care of. Fortunately, being in Southern California, it wasn't often subjected to wet and muddy roads so there hasn't been any major rust problem nor any collision damage.

I too am of the age and can relate very fondly to those days when side mounted spare tires were quite common on pickups. Wish I would have ordered it as an option when I ordered the truck! As a result, I am installing a Side Mounted Wheel Carrier on it which (again admittedly!) has been giving me some mental fits with the fitup aches and pains to install new assemblies. I hope you will be able to take some time to respond to my questions:

1. Do you have any pics of the bottom support bracket under the bedwood and how it fits up and attaches to the vertical supports? (A fitup dimension and hole drilling location headache!)

2. How much clearance do you have between the tire and bedrail and the side of the fender cutout, or are you butting the tire tightly against those areas?

3. The fender Grommet through which the rear bottom leg of the sidemount bracket passes: I finally found one through internet search which is close to original - suitable but flimsy. The one on your installation looks much more substantial and, although it doesn't apply to my installation, I see it it also handles the antenna cable. Can you recommend a source and part number?

4. Do you see a need to coat the bedsides in the fender wells with Herculiner or some other product similar to what the fender insides are coated with? Seems as though there used to be undercoating there.

5. You mention on Page 15 of the thread that you applied Seam Sealer where needed before the painting process at the shop. I will need something like that in areas on the bed and tailgate when readying for paint. Can you recommend a product?

6. I've not mentioned that the front fenders, hood & cowl have been painted but are not fully assembled, although the cab exterior, interior and doors are complete painted and installed. Are the inner fenders installed prior to or after installing the outer fenders? I didn't see that mentioned in your build thread and couldn't tell from the pics.

That's it. Again, with great respect for your detailed notes and finished product and hoping for your reply, I am,

Chuck
I'm having a "H" of a time getting this email to send......

Hi Chuck (chmurt)

Thank you for finding my build thread of benefit to you. The use of a spare tire side mount that I used really falls into a custom installation that I was trying to work off stock installation parts. I’m going to need a few days to gather together info and pictures to answer your questions. I will be posting the answers hear with pictures for you and any others that might be interested.

I see that you’re new to posting on this web site. Let me be one of the first to say welcome and I think you will find that many of your questions that come up during your project/build will have answers thru out this web site. As with all customizing this is just my approach and there are probably other ways to reach your goals also.

Enjoy Your Build

Bruce

[Mike Bradbury]

Hey Chuck,
I am just around the corner from you in El Cajon. Welcome to the site you will find many helpful friends here. I caution you about posting your full address and phone number in post out to the general forum, because anybody can browse not just the membership. Save the address details for personal messages. After 30 minutes you cannot edit your posts, so I would ask a moderator to edit your personal info from your post. Most of the time you should be OK, but spammers are alive and well.

Is your truck running now? a bunch of us are cruising up to the Brothers show at the end of June. All different levels of trucks up there but mostly real friendly guys who love to help.

Look here for details if interested: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=575275

We are leaving EARLY Sunday morning.

[Bruce88]

Well Chuck (chmurt) hears the answers to your questions.

First I’m going to start out with a picture. There are two different side mounted spare tire mounts used on the step side pickups. One is for the long bed step side and ones is for the short bed step side. The brackets and fenders are different and cannot be interchanged with each other. See the below pictures to see the differences. You said that your truck is a short bed and I hope you have the correct bracket and fender, you cannot make a long bed bracket and fender work on your truck.





Question 1. Do you have any pics of the bottom support bracket under the bedwood and how it fits up and attaches to the vertical supports? (A fitup dimension and hole drilling location headache!)

I did not have or use the bottom support assembly on my truck. You can see it in the above picture for the short bed installation. I figure that you’re trying to fit your bracket to a bed side that did not have the mount holes already drilled. There is one hole in your bed side that exists and all the rest of the holes that are needed can be measured off that hole. I marked up the above picture to show this hole and retyped the dimensions on the factory drawing because they were hard to read. Personally I would remove the fender and assemble the bracket, attach the bracket using the one hole and mark all the need holes off the bracket. The dimensions on the drawing should be close but may not match your bracket exactly.

I didn’t like how the aft short leg fit between the top of the fender and top of the bed side plus the legs looked flimsy to me. That’s why I went into a redesign mode and made mine a one peace aft leg passing thru the fender. If you look at my posts you will see in the first post #79 thru #82 that I started with a factory mount (two part aft leg), but in my last post #84 I showed my redesigned legs. (hears a link back to the page) http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=318544&page=4 You didn’t say whether your using 6 lug rims or 5 lug rims, you should probably check your mount out to see what lug pattern it has and see if it matches what rims your using, you can print out the lug nut patter In post #79 to check it. I had to modify my mount from 6 lugs to 5 lugs.



Question 2. How much clearance do you have between the tire and bedrail and the side of the fender cutout, or are you butting the tire tightly against those areas?

As you can see in the above picture I ended up with 3/16 inch clearance between the tire and fender lip. I was shooting for a 1/8 inch gap, didn’t want the tire riding on the rail or cutout in the fender. If it had been riding I would have shimmed the rim out from the mount to get some clearance. The rim size and backspacing plus tire size that you’re using are all going to play into what clearance you end up with. I’m using ARE-625873 American Racing, Outlaw II Wheels 15 in. x 8 in., 5 x 5 in. bolt circle, 3.75 in. backspace, -19.00mm offset and P255/60R15 BFGoodrich Radial T/A tires.



Question 3. The fender Grommet through which the rear bottom leg of the side mount bracket passes: I finally found one through internet search which is close to original - suitable but flimsy. The one on your installation looks much more substantial and, although it doesn't apply to my installation, I see it also handles the antenna cable. Can you recommend a source and part number?

The above pictures are the best ones that I have that show the grommet in question on the finished installation. I don’t have any part numbers for you, I made it from stock material. If I remember right the hole in the fender is approximately 1-3/4 inch DIA. I used a standard grommet for the hole size and then glued a peace of 1/8 inch thick rubber on top of it, then drilled/cut the holes in the rubber peace where they were needed.



Question 4. Do you see a need to coat the bedsides in the fender wells with Herculiner or some other product similar to what the fender insides are coated with? Seems as though there used to be undercoating there.

Your right, this area is normally undercoated, I don’t have any plans to undercoat this area on my truck. I did the undercoating of the fenders off the bed as can be seen in the above picture, much easier to get it in all the nooks and crannies and I hope that the inside bed panel does not need the added protection. Back in the 60’S I worked in an undercoating shop for a few months (not a job that I wanted to pursue – smile). We would normally spray this area, but as I’ve taken off a few fenders from older step sides that had been undercoated. I found that some of them had rusted areas on the flange of the fender. Some of this rust was caused because the undercoating had sealed the fender flange to the bed side and created a water pocket that trapped water in the area, I hope that leaving it unsealed will let any water that might get in there a way to drain out and not cause any rust in the future.

Question 5. You mention on Page 15 of the thread that you applied Seam Sealer where needed before the painting process at the shop. I will need something like that in areas on the bed and tailgate when readying for paint. Can you recommend a product?

As far as recommending a specific product (NO), but as to a type of product (YES). I would recommend using a two part seam sealer. It’s like an epoxy compound that mixes the two parts in the applicator/mixing tube. In using this type of product there is a problem and that is that each manufacture might have their own stile gun and it does require a special gun to apply it. The gun generally looks like two caulking guns put together and is very expensive to buy and own for a onetime use. I used the body and paint shops gun and the two part seam sealer that they used. You can see my seam sealing of the upper drip rail in (Post #411) http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...318544&page=17

Just as a side note, don’t over seal things, it can cause problems down the road. If I remember right there’s only two areas on the step side bed that were called out on the factory drawings for sealing. One is the tail gate lip top and bottom on the back of the tail gate and the other area was on the inside of the spare tire cutout on the fender. I welded my cutout in instead of using it with the factory spot welds that where there. You can see the welded in panel in (post #65) http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=318544&page=3

Question 6. I've not mentioned that the front fenders, hood & cowl have been painted but are not fully assembled, although the cab exterior, interior and doors are complete painted and installed. Are the inner fenders installed prior to or after installing the outer fenders? I didn't see that mentioned in your build thread and couldn't tell from the pics.

(After the outer fenders are installed) The front inner fender wells where the last items installed, everything was complete prior to the fender wells going in. I think it is very important to test fit them before painting because some of the holes in the inner fender may need to be slotted a little to line up the holes. You can see the installation on (post #613) http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...318544&page=25

Hope this helps you out in your project/build. There’s probably more information than you wanted hear but I thought that it possibly could be of help.

Enjoy Your Build

Bruce

[chmurt]

Hi Bruce,

Thank you for your considered and thorough response to answer my questions.

Yes, I am using the Assembly drawings also. My basic 1971 1/2 ton wheels/rims are the 5-lug configuration and the mounting bracket I located had to be modified from 6 to 5 lug with 1/2"-20 bolts. The fender with the cutout for the SWB was located in a wrecking yard up in Orange, CA and needed a bit of touch up body work to restore. Along with it came the original upper and lower rear supports which I am using. I had the front support assy fabricated by the weld shop at the shipyard where I worked, and I found the bottom support through the GM parts system.

You're right - the hole in the bedside for the fender is the pilot for all other mounting fasteners to match. My fitup problem, now solved, was with attaching the bottom bracket to the front and rear vertical supports. The bottom holes in the verticals have now been plug-welded and ground smooth for redrilling to suit the 3/8" square holes in the horizontal bottom support under the wood.

Here is a pic of the loose fitup on the bench.

Thanks for the pic of the clearance between your tire and bed rail. I have sufficient length of the mounting bolts in order to make up the clearance.

The grommet through the fender: I didn't realize that you had custom made your own. I may end up using the new original size grommet I located which is suitable but flimsy.

I am holding in abeyance the undercoating of the bed side under the fender in consideration of your response.

As far as seam sealing on the bed assembly, and as you responded, I was talking about the tailgate, but also the edges of the stake pocket assemblies which are stitch or spot welded to the bedsides appear to need it. The tire cutout edges on the fender were sealed when the restoration was done.

Finally, Bruce, I will follow your example and install the inner fenders after the outer fenders are installed and lined up. These assemblies are all original with the truck and should not pose much of a fitup problem.

I don't know if the photo I wanted to attach made it or not! I hope it was attached.

Thanks ever so much for your help. If I'm ever up there, or you down here, I'd like to meet you and see your outstanding project.

Chuck

[chmurt]

[QUOTE=Mike Bradbury;6097908]Hey Chuck,
I am just around the corner from you in El Cajon. Welcome to the site you will find many helpful friends here. I caution you about posting your full address and phone number in post out to the general forum, because anybody can browse not just the membership. Save the address details for personal messages. After 30 minutes you cannot edit your posts, so I would ask a moderator to edit your personal info from your post. Most of the time you should be OK, but spammers are alive and well.

Is your truck running now? a bunch of us are cruising up to the Brothers show at the end of June. All different levels of trucks up there but mostly real friendly guys who love to help.

Look here for details if interested: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=575275

Hi Mike,

Thank you for looking at my message to Bruce 88, and for your invite to the Brothers Meet at the end of June. Unfortunately, I won't be ready to be on the road at that time but I sure will next year! The pictures you sent of the potential Brothers vehicles were great, and I surely did follow your "Barnyard" build thread with interest! Being so close, I'd like to see it.

You're right to caution against putting full name and address data as I did on my initial post. I had thought it was going out as a personal message-darn the luck. I'm sending an email to one of the Moderators and perhaps he can clean the detail stuff off. And then I didn't think it went so I sent it again!

Chuck

[tpost01]

Bruce,

I gotta tell ya man, this is an amazingly informative thread! I appreciate your efforts in sharing your knowledge with all of us here! Your truck is looking good!

[KSWes]

Hey Bruce, you've made such a great reference for us all. I was having a hard time figuring out where the door bumpers go only supposed to have two per side and I have three holes on the latch side of my door jams on my cab. Evidently a previous owner thought it would be good to add a hole. Going to use the extra for a door pin for the dome light but needed to know where the bumpers go. Thanks for documenting your hard work so well!

[Bruce88]

Originally Posted by KSWes

Hey Bruce, you've made such a great reference for us all. I was having a hard time figuring out where the door bumpers go only supposed to have two per side and I have three holes on the latch side of my door jams on my cab. Evidently a previous owner thought it would be good to add a hole. Going to use the extra for a door pin for the dome light but needed to know where the bumpers go. Thanks for documenting your hard work so well!

Hi KSWes

Stepped out and took a quick picture and measurements of where my door bumpers are located (see picture below) hope this helps you figure out where the bumpers go.

Bruce

[KSWes]

Thanks Bruce, I have an extra hole right under the latch not sure why it would have been put there by the previous owner but I think it's going to end up being where I put my door pin for the dome light. Appreciate you taking the time and the picture, very helpful!

Wes

[ltrrtl]

Bruce, from your experience do you think "RNM-1101S - R&M billet wire looms" will fit/work for a 350 with Flowtech Headers w/ Air Condition?

[Bruce88]

Originally Posted by ltrrtl

Bruce, from your experience do you think "RNM-1101S - R&M billet wire looms" will fit/work for a 350 with Flowtech Headers w/ Air Condition?

Hi ltrrtl
There’s no way that I can tell you that the wire looms will work or not work. There’s just to many variables to consider, for example are your heads straight or angled spark plugs, old stile air conditioner or newer smaller models, and then each header manufactures run their tubs different, that might cause clearance problems between the spark plug wire and the header tube.

I have used similar wire looms with headers but some of the spark plug wire ends where straight and some 90 deg, all the time trying to maintain a ½ inch minimum clearance between the wires and the tubes.

What I would do is assemble the headers and air conditioner on the engine then evaluate how you can run the spark plug wires and if you can maintain the ½ inch minimum clearance. Sometimes the wires can be run over the top and others the wires will need to be run under the headers.

Sorry no definitive answer but hot rodding is bring together parts and sometimes modifying them so they work together.

Enjoy your build
Bruce

[ltrrtl]

Bruce,
You bring up valid points... Since originally posting my question I have purchased the R&M - 1101S wire loom set... I am installing the new smaller A/C compressor and it appears "from pictures" that the loom will fit. Heads are straight out plugs, no angle......... Loom set is expected to arrive on Tuesday.
Yesterday, I installed the headers, plugs and test fitted some old 90 degree wires. Driver side looks good, maintaining 1/2 clearance. Passenger side is not so good, 2 plug ends are right next to the header tubes. Does not matter if I use 90 or straight cables, I will not get more than 1/8 -1/4 clearance at the wire cap/ plug. This is my 1st build with headers and I understand the heat and all but, what is one to do when the clearance of 1/2 can not be achieved? BTW, returning the headers is not an option I want to go with

[Bruce88]

Originally Posted by ltrrtl

Bruce,
You bring up valid points... Since originally posting my question I have purchased the R&M - 1101S wire loom set... I am installing the new smaller A/C compressor and it appears "from pictures" that the loom will fit. Heads are straight out plugs, no angle......... Loom set is expected to arrive on Tuesday.
Yesterday, I installed the headers, plugs and test fitted some old 90 degree wires. Driver side looks good, maintaining 1/2 clearance. Passenger side is not so good, 2 plug ends are right next to the header tubes. Does not matter if I use 90 or straight cables, I will not get more than 1/8 -1/4 clearance at the wire cap/ plug. This is my 1st build with headers and I understand the heat and all but, what is one to do when the clearance of 1/2 can not be achieved? BTW, returning the headers is not an option I want to go with

Not all the spark plug wires on an engine need to be straight or 90 deg, use one that gives the best clearance. So you could end up with let’s say (3) 90 deg and (5) straight spark plug ends or any combination on one engine. The fit and clearance is more important than the aesthetics of all the spark plug ends being the same on each spark plug.

If the clearance that you’re talking about is the clearance between the spark plug wire boot and the header tube it’s just something you’re going to have to live with but there has to be some. I’ve seen this happen with 90 deg boots but with straight boots you need to maintain the ½ clearance or switch to 90 deg boot.

A few tips on running the spark plug wires, you should hold to a minimum any twisting of the wire and do not bend the wire to have a bend with less than ½ inch radius bend (no sharp wire bends) and make sure that the wire is not riding on any sharp edges of the block. The spark plug wires have a carbon core that conduct the electricity to the spark plug from the distributor and any sharp bend or excessive twisting can cause gaps/breaking the wire core and making the wire have a higher resistance to conduct electricity. The spark plug wires now a day are better than the old days but I still want to keep all the wires as separated as possible (using wire spacers), let’s say any run over 4 -5 inches with the wires touching each other and parallel can induce current in one of the other wires or jump from one wire to another, this might not happen right away but the possibility down the road does exist (then you’re trying to figure out why your engine isn’t running right).

I generally use universal (you cut to fit) wire kits. That way I can have the correct wire lengths for my application. One thing to note is do not and I will say again do not cut any wires till all the wire runs are set from all the spark plugs to the distributor. Not all the wires in the kits are the same length and if you cut one to short you may end up buying another kit. I would not recommend any solid wire core wires for a street application they are generally for racing only. One problem you might run into is the kits normally come only with all 90 deg boots at the spark plug end or all straight ends, if you need to have a combination of both ends you might have to buy two kits. Some kits come with a crimping tool that can be used with a vice and others don’t. I’ve found that the (MSD 3503 Mini-Stripper Crimpers) work well with a vice and relatively inexpensive if you need one. Also the distributor should be set close to what would be you normal set timing and allow a little extra length of wire at the distributor for some timing adjustments if needed.

Hope this helps you out in setting up your ignition/wire runs

Bruce

[67ctener]

Amazing job Bruce. Your attention to details are amazing. Most detailed build on this site. Any day I will be starting my own metal work and will be using your build as an instructional guide. Hope to see that thing in person one day. Again amazing work and will be refrencing this thread the rest of my build.
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[meat8680]

Amazing jobs I'm going to try to follow this post as much as possible is going to help me in the near future ! Great build

[mcbassin]

It's no mystery why this thread was made sticky. Awesome details as always. How has your truck been treating you?

[Mr Chevorlet]

I agree this is a beautiful truck and nice build!