Project: Recycle

[TA_C10]

Fantastic man.

[SCOTI]

Still poking away @ the front C/O swap. I have brackets cut, fitted, beveled, & stripped in preparation for welding on the driver side. I have the pass side pieces cut & fitted. Still need to get the pieces sanded down & edges beveled for better weld penetration on areas where I need the surfaces FLAT.

I have the templates made for the lower mounts. I'm waiting to get the uppers tacked together so I can narrow the surface (foot-print) of the lowers & finalize their fab.

Next purchase is prob a pricy one. C/O's & shorty tilt steering column.

[TA_C10]

Ready to see all that go together. What shorty tilt you picking up? Rebuilt OE or aftermarket? Only thing I wish I would have done when I did a rebuilt/shortened was get one with wheel lock....

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by TA_C10

Ready to see all that go together. What shorty tilt you picking up? Rebuilt OE or aftermarket? Only thing I wish I would have done when I did a rebuilt/shortened was get one with wheel lock....

I have what I believe is an old van tilt column from ~30yrs back. Not sure if I'll utilize it & modify length as needed or if I'll drop the coin by hitting the EASY button for a new Ididit column. At $1k for the Ididit…. I'll need to put some thought into the decision as I'd rather use that money toward improving other stuff.

[TA_C10]

I absolutely love my rebuilt tilt column. It started life as a van column as well. Shortened 2" was just enough at 6'5 along with lowered seat brackets. I will eventually do bucket seats and cut into that back sheet metal just below the rear window to slide them back as far as possible, but for now it's pretty decent.

The column was completely rebuilt with all new internals like stock. Tilt. Hazards. Column shift. Gear indicator. Turn signals. All new. And I added the turn signal indicator from a newer model GM for cruise control. And of course, no mods required to connect to steering gear. But you don't care about that lol. It looks good. Works great. OE safety and stability from OE parts was my biggest concern. A member on here did all this for me for half the cost of IDIDIT. Painted it for me too. But like I said, only thing I don't like is there isn't a steering column lock. But I will live without it. There are other measures I can take.

Maybe you can look into figuring out if you can add a lock to these OE units...

.

[Inverter]

Scot, here are the units we were discussing. The assembled pair are the correct sized 14” +/- Mounted and 750 lb 10”

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by TA_C10

I absolutely love my rebuilt tilt column. It started life as a van column as well. Shortened 2" was just enough at 6'5 along with lowered seat brackets. I will eventually do bucket seats and cut into that back sheet metal just below the rear window to slide them back as far as possible, but for now it's pretty decent.

The column was completely rebuilt with all new internals like stock. Tilt. Hazards. Column shift. Gear indicator. Turn signals. All new. And I added the turn signal indicator from a newer model GM for cruise control. And of course, no mods required to connect to steering gear. But you don't care about that lol. It looks good. Works great. OE safety and stability from OE parts was my biggest concern. A member on here did all this for me for half the cost of IDIDIT. Painted it for me too. But like I said, only thing I don't like is there isn't a steering column lock. But I will live without it. There are other measures I can take.

Maybe you can look into figuring out if you can add a lock to these OE units...

.

If you would, please PM me the forum member that did your rebuild if you don't mind. I do like having options especially when it allows using recycled parts

[SCOTI]

So.... I have updates but not much advancement. I am getting much better @ the 2-steps forward, 1-step back thing though

I pulled the Pass side apart to prep the brackets for welding & got them tacked together. At that point I decided to go ahead & weld the inner portion of the vertical/horizontal attachment points of the bracket base. I pulled the tacked bracket off & in-turn tacked that to a steel platform set-up so things wouldn't move w/the heat.

Due to the vertical portion of the brackets reducing height (it's taller @ the front of the a-arm vs. @ the rear), I had to spacing things to keep everything as aligned as possible. I welded short-ish sections (2-3") & waited for each section to cool to the touch to keep things from wanting to move around.

I cleaned up & put the bracket back in place. All good.
Test fit the horizontal hardware. It fit like before.
Slapped on the hardware & cinched it up. Then I went to slide the upper arm shaft studs through & it was a no go. It seems I made my template for locating & drilling the holes w/the pieces just sitting in place vs. locked-in. This required going back through & clearancing the holes slightly.

I continued ahead on that side & worked toward minimizing the footprint of the lower brackets base plate. The idea was to utilize the existing hole (for securing the lower end of a bag) & add two more so they're in a pyramid arrangement. Because of the arms shape & the location of the C/O's center-line, that base plate is an odd shape. It took a couple of in/out, in/out maneuvers trimming away each time. Once that was finalized, the plate & the arm got reference marks to easily align until the other holes were drilled.

This is where I swapped in the temporary C/O jig to align the top & bottom mounts. I got things together w/o much fuss & was happy so I tacked the upper/lower shock mounts in place onto the base plates. I then went to remove the hardware so I could plot out the additional holes on the bottom plate & found ANOTHER issue. It seems I had not attempted to remove/install the hardware w/the new & different lower arms. The hardware would not clear the tube portion of the new arms

PIC1 = Original RideTech bracket/s used for the lower mount
PIC2 = Tweaked bracket on the lower base-plate
PIC3 = Dimension of the flat portion of the a-arm & top of the tube (RideTech arm)
PIC4 = Dimension of the flat portion of the a-arm & top of the tube (Porterbuilt narrowed arm)

[SCOTI]

So, Plan-B. I decided to add height to the lower & see if that would work. Nope...

So after trying to figure out how this was overlooked & then getting the measurements of the two different arms I realized where the over-site occurred. I based everything starting w/the RideTech arms. I then switched to the narrower PB arms & just swapped the parts over as assembled & everything fit. With each validation after, I was able to pull/install the entire set-up (upper brackets, mock-up C/O, & lower bracket) as a unit. I never thought to test the hardware on the bottom w/the new arms.

I already had parts enroute & I really, REALLY, wanted to have the entire set-up mocked-up w/the actual shocks in place this weekend. I did some on-line searching & found some brackets by QA1 that were the exact dimension I needed. Laser cut. Ready to go. I checked & Summit Racing in Arlington had them in house. I purchased a set-up & picked them up on my lunch break so that when the C/O's arrived Friday, I would be ready to go....

[SCOTI]

Friday. FRIDAY. FRIDAY!!. Tracking said the package would be delivered Friday. Since they left Austin area on Tuesday night the 22nd @ 9pm & were only going to Dallas, seemed legit.

I worked getting the new lower mounts aligned & verified. They worked well. I even verified I could get the hardware out as suggested by more than one person close to me

Once that was done, I yanked the lower mounts base plate from the Pass side for another round of clean-up/footprint reduction & then used it as the template for the Driver side bracket. With both now made, I was able to make some nicer appearing borders & get them both uniform.

I got the drivers side apart & went through the same steps as the Pass side. Things went much easier on the Driver side. Base plates installed. Mock-up shocks installed. Dialed in the placement & shock angle. Tacked the lower mounts in place. Removed & installed the hardware on both sides for validation. Everything comes apart & assembles w/no fuss.

7pm Friday night (the 24th), still no shocks.
I check tracking again & it still shows the 24th as the delivery date but says it's still just running late. I notice however there is no update as far as location since the 9pm 7/22 log-in???

I check again this morning. At 6am they showed to get logged-in @ the main Dallas center only to be transferred over to the Coppell distribution center. I'm guessing (hoping?) to maybe have them by Monday night.

Oh well.... I ready for them @ least.

[aggie91]

Nice!

[aggie91]

Looks good Scoti. Would you mind sharing the specs you used to get your shocks? Part numbers, extended length, compressed length, etc? I am planning something similar on my next project (1975 C10) but want to work with parts I already have instead of buying a whole next coil over package deal...

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by aggie91

Looks good Scoti. Would you mind sharing the specs you used to get your shocks? Part numbers, extended length, compressed length, etc? I am planning something similar on my next project (1975 C10) but want to work with parts I already have instead of buying a whole next coil over package deal...

As for the specs.… I based things off of what's currently sold via the aftermarket.

I studied some generic weight break-downs for choosing a spring rate but that just gets me started. I understand I'll possibly need to make changes as I don't have scales so I'm guessing on some criteria for the calculations.

Since the manufacturers that offer bolt-in C/O systems base things off of the original build platform, one can use their set-up. But, Porterbuilt didn't offer a bolt-in alternative for my DM's upper mount (it is a pre-'07 version) so I was on my own as there was nothing available (he did try to help). I did get an offer for an older DM specific C/O bracket that possibly would have worked but it would have required that 3.6 stroke shock & I had already made templets for my own. I pressed forward...

Anything based on the original platform is limited to that platform when building their bolt-on kits or the costs go higher & closer to complete replacement x-members which might hurt sales. Since I wasn't limited to any original platform, I looked @ what builders used when fabbing one-off pieces as well as lots of suspension/shock/spring research. One thing I know is a longer spring/shock combo helps ride quality as long as you have room for the travel. Using that info & researching what is commonly used in a stock chassis C10 C/O set-up, I just looked to see how much I could increase the shock length. I know PB & Ridetech use a 3.6 stroke shock up front so I went from there & chose a 5" stroke shock. Based off of shock stroke, they recommend certain length springs. I did calcs & chose to start w/a 750# spring rate up front & go from there once I'm no longer guessing on certain factors.

But, I didn't just drop bucks on some C/O's only hoping they would work.... I constantly plan/try to have a Plan-B. Ironically, the C/O's shock length I chose are what PB & Ridetech both spec for the rear of their C10 kits AND it's also the same length for the Ridetech G-body rear kit. Since I based my rear shock set-up off of a G-body w/the specific idea of possibly going to a coil-over in the future, any G-body spec'd C/O would be a possible candidate AND since I mess w/G-body's, I can always utilize them there if I run into an impass on using them for the 64.

Ridetech lists the shock as a 5.2 stroke:14.5 @ ride height; 11.25" compressed; 16.75" extended. They call for a 12" spring but there are variances & a 10" seemed like a good choice (their C10 kit calls for an 8" spring w/a 1.6" shorter shock). As for the spring rate.... Weights, angles, & pivot dimensions are required to narrow it down. From the kits I noted, my shock is slightly more upright vs theirs & my dimensions are shorter (A-arm pivot to BJ C/L; A-arm pivot to shock bottom C/L). They spec an 800# & I'm trying a 750# which also happens to be what these came with.

The 2nd set of coils purchased are 12" 275# springs which is what the rears are spec'd for.

[aggie91]

I knew I could count on you to give a better backstory, reasoning for choosing a given shock and not just say its a coil over with X" compressed length, Y" extended and a Z" long spring. I have been doing research too as to what shock companies like PB, RideTech, QA1, CPP, and others use in their conversion kits for the stock crossmember. I also recall Rob (NoLimit Engineering) saying a longer stroke shock and coil is better. I was planning on using a 5" stroke shock with a 10" spring and ironically with the same 750 pound spring that you chose. Now I know that I was on the right track. I am leaning towards a QA1 shock with similar specs to your RideTech shocks. Great minds do think alike. I just need to get my '65 back together and driving before I jump to deep in to the '75 build.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by aggie91

I knew I could count on you to give a better backstory, reasoning for choosing a given shock and not just say its a coil over with X" compressed length, Y" extended and a Z" long spring. I have been doing research too as to what shock companies like PB, RideTech, QA1, CPP, and others use in their conversion kits for the stock crossmember. I also recall Rob (NoLimit Engineering) saying a longer stroke shock and coil is better. I was planning on using a 5" stroke shock with a 10" spring and ironically with the same 750 pound spring that you chose. Now I know that I was on the right track. I am leaning towards a QA1 shock with similar specs to your RideTech shocks. Great minds do think alike. I just need to get my '65 back together and driving before I jump to deep in to the '75 build.

I appreciate that feedback. Seems better to understand the 'why' a decision was made when being told of a specific part that's not just a bolt-in swap. I was very impressed w/the QA1 C10 stuff when I looked @ their set-up @ the C10 Nats last year. I use the same method of thought for the cars stuff as well & actually will be using a QA1 front sway bar for the G-body. Quality parts.

Originally Posted by 88Stanger

Damn Scoti you are just amazing! This is like watching an artist! Nice job sir!

I'm better than I used to be but nowhere near amazing. Just trying to build something solid, safe, & on a blue-collar budget.

Thanks for the comments

[Inverter]

Looks good on there.
Nice to get back on schedule eh? As you were...

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Inverter

Looks good on there.
Nice to get back on schedule eh? As you were...

I trimmed more away from the original bag mount. There's a fingers width of clearance all around the spring now. I also trimmed the front stud as well. Pulled the bracket & getting ready to put some heat to it now....

[SCOTI]

I've been pushing through & trying to get things done despite the heat & dead-ends in my attempt to utilize true tie-rod ends for the steering links. This was a concern of mine from day-one as I feel a true TRE would be better vs. a heim. I know lots of guys use heims on their builds. I know they're a common need on these aftermarket x-member/R&P set-ups. Lot's of guys also use bolt-in c-notches that kill frame strength but that doesn't make them the best choice especially when other options are possible....

I wanted to try other possibilities before defaulting to the use of heims. This was complicated by the recent spindle change (OE style spindle to CPP's modular spindle). It seems the CPP modular spindle is a little looser w/it's TRE pad tolerances.

To summarize..... Can't use OE C10 TRE's because of length (PB Dropmember + 1" narrowed arms + modular spindle). They can be cut down shorter but then would need to be machined to size & threaded. I don't have that equipment available to me & wasn't going to pay machine shop prices for a 'maybe it will/maybe it won't' mod. It was also not a 'correct' fit in the CPP spindles TRE pad (too loose/too much play).

I tried an alternative TRE that's been used before on C10's from a International Scout II. The books dimensions said it would work. In reality, the Moog part was a no go (stud too short) & it was too loose (worse) in the spindle TRE pad.

I tried a common 4wd upgrade option using GM 1-ton 4wd TRE's. These are HD sized but close in length needs (to the Scout unit) & threaded similarly (like the Scouts). The thread shank/size is larger but that's just a different adapter or re-drill/re-tap the heim adapter I already had. One requirement though was it required reaming the spindle TRE pad for a larger stud (if it would have worked, this would have corrected the loose tolerances of the CPP spindles TRE pad). I bought the correct reamer & gave it a go. Unfortunately, the spindles TRE pad required reaming it enough so that when the castle nut reached the point of inserting a cotter-pin, the TRE's body was closer than desired. It cleared when cycling the suspension but the grease-boot would have been destroyed in short order.

Can't say I didn't try....

So, the process of installing the heims (w/the correct 5/8" bolts) vs. just having them in place for mock-up (1/2" or 5/8" bolts depending on the spindles) required drilling the spindle TRE pad for inserts the correct size so that the 5/8" bolts were seated securely. I purchased inserts online (7/8" OD; 5/8" ID). Technically these were press-fit drill bushings. I bought 2 different sets: 1x 'standard'; 1x 'oversized'. The oversized bushings have additional material & require the end user to machine them to the final dimensions needed.

Drilling for the bushings was straight-forward.... Kind-of. I googled & watched YT videos of guys drilling the spindles w/a hand drill. Seemed sketchy but more than one off-roader has done it so 'timid me' just had to put my big-boy pants on & get it done. I strapped the spindle to keep it from moving. Used a uni-bit to have a nice 'starting pad' for the larger bits (started w/a 3/4"). It was almost immediately apparent in my head that this was NOT the correct approach. While I was able to drill through, the drill pulled/pushed if the bit dug in. Stop, reset, re-start. I got through but wasn't impressed. I thought "well maybe now that there's a 3/4" hole all the way through (vs. a tapered hole)… the next pass will ease my mind". Nope. Same drill (pun intended).

The 7/8" bit would dig in & pull the drill any direction but plumb. It was a PITA to keep it straight as this was the main focus. I was hoping I did good enough & suppose I did but I was not happy w/the 'quality' of the outcome. The 'standard' bushing had play when inserted from the top. It did fit snug (could barely insert it) from the bottom. One of the oversized bushings was used on this one (un-touched/as-is).

In the end, it required the hydraulic press to get the bushing seated in the spindle so I know I'm good but I also knew I WAS NOT doing the other spindle the same way. I knew it could be done 'better'. It took some staring & head-scratching but I figured out a way to get it done & luckily had some nice tools @ my work that made it happen.

The 2nd spindle took longer to set-up than it did to drill. But, once drilled, it was true & the 'standard' bushing had the same resistance top + bottom this time. Again, this bushing also required seating w/the hyd press.

So that's been occupying my shop time for the last 2-3wks. Researching parts options. Researching 'how-to'. Acquiring the parts. Buying another car. Getting it done. Getting it done correctly.... With the TRE task completed, I'll start next week & get the drivers side lower mount & passenger side C/O brackets finish welded.

[88Stanger]

Damn Scoti you are just amazing! This is like watching an artist! Nice job sir!

[SkinnyG]

There are rubber boots you can get for Heim joints that can protect it from the elements. Likely not be as good as a proper tie rod, but better than open and exposed.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by SkinnyG

There are rubber boots you can get for Heim joints that can protect it from the elements. Likely not be as good as a proper tie rod, but better than open and exposed.

Yes sir. Already have them & have had them for a bit. I just needed to exhaust the other possibilities first.
Thanks regardless as others may not know about them.

[TA_C10]

Your gettin it figured man. Shame your original idea didn't work out but it's gonna be solid. Looks good.

[aggie91]

Wait you bought another car? A Project Car or a Driver Car?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by aggie91

Wait you bought another car? A Project Car or a Driver Car?

Both. Sort-of.

[tinydb84]

I just want to say I appreciate the level of detail and work you put into your posts. There is a lot of info/ideas/execution that I (and I assume others) are able to pull from them.