1957 Chevy truck re-rebuild

[jwhotrod]

volume of fuel is dependent on the size of the line not pressure as you said above. the fuel pump will survive longer in the tank not only because of the efficiency of pushing rather than pulling fuel, but also because the fuel in the tank cools the pump motor. my in tank pump in my 35 chevy street rod has lasted 7 years so far where the old inline pumps would fail after 3-4 years. don't use anything smaller than 3/8 (6AN) hose, tube and fittings. also don't use more than 12" of rubber hose in the supply line.

[dsraven]

My thoughts too. Rubber is for connections where a threaded fitting isn't convenient. Steel line is preferred due to waaay less friction loss

[dsraven]

since a fuel pump is a vane style pump it will add pressure capabilities to an existing pressure found at the inlet of the pump. vane pumps create flow and will create pressure, up to a limit, should there be a restriction in the system downstream of the pump outlet. the restriction is commonly a carb or fuel injection system regulator. it can also be the fuel lines if they are restrictive. dead heading a pump will shorten the life of the pump due to heat build up. there is a whole formula for figuring out the friction loss in a given delivery system and it would include such things as fittings, filters, regulators line size etc. if the ID of the line is doubled the capacity of the line is quadrupled. every fitting, as well, creates turbulence in the laminar flow of the fuel as it passes the fitting or a sharp bend in the tubing.with that in mind try to keep your fuel lines as straight as possible and with the least amount of fittings and connections. rubber hose is bad for fuel flow so should be used sparingly. if you were to check under a more modern vehicle with the type of fuel pump, filter, regulator and injection system as what you plan to use you could get a pretty good idea of what size of delivery lines you will need. pay attention, also, to how straight the delivery lines are, that the system is grounded at both ends and the number of fittings is minimal. if the fittings were to be checked on the inside diameter I would think they too would be close to the ID of the delivery line. inline pumps would generally have a larger inlet side plumbing than outlet side because, for a vane pump, the fuel is actually pushed into the pump by atmosheric pressure. that is why there is a limit to how much a vane pump can draw in height from the fluid source. as a professional firefighter,when we draft water from a pond or a swimming pool, we use a positive displacement pump to lower the pressure inside the pump cavity so the atmospheric pressure has a better chance to push the water up the hard suction hose into our fire pumper. here in calgary, at about 4000 ft above sea level, we are limited to under about 10 ft of height difference from the pumper inlet to the surface of the pond. obviously the inlet hard suction line is larger than the proposed outlet lines would be and also limited in length. the longer the outlet line the higher the pumper needs to be set to achieve the same pressure at the nozzle. an uphill grade from the pumper to the nozzle also elevates the pumper pressure as does any fittings placed in that line. the same theries could likely be applied to a fuel system since they use a vane pump as well. a fire pump likely has a better pump cavity olute design though.

[dsraven]

wow, sorry man. that got long winded. lol.

[Stepside Jim]

jwhotrod, In the Tanks on line parts description they did say the 6an would work fine up to 600 horse power and the parts they sent were based on the 6an size. I should be in good shape.

Also, Dekalb Il. hmmm, I worked at a place on 38, the railroad tracks passed by there, McDonalds on the right. Post Office out the front window, where was I?

[Stepside Jim]

dsraven, I kind of figured there would be test and figures on flow rates, ect.

I was just thinking out loud on how those figures would change from a pump that produces 6 pounds to a pump producing 80 to 100 pounds.

Plus how we now commonly use bypass/return lines off our regulators. I figure the return line system has to make for happier pumps since they are not pushing up against a dead end anymore.

I got away from the Hot Rod world for about 10 to fifteen years, then got back in about 13 years ago, and I'm still catching up.

[jwhotrod]

you could have been at NAPA, Rositas, Keith and Ralphs, or Gordons Hdwr. i live East of there on RT 38

[Stepside Jim]

jwhotrod, Way back in 1992 I was working at the NAPA store there in DeKalb. I was mainly a Belvidere resident, I got to ride in the Tornado in a school bus back in 1967.

It's time to get this tank and most of it's pieces fitted and in place.

The fill cap is logical, the sending unit is logical, the vent tubes are somewhat logical, what's up with the fuel lines?

I'm coming away from the tank with Steel braided lines and I didn't want to have to lower the tank to get to the connections so I chose to use metal lines to the edge of the tank and make a support that is raised high enough so when the steel braided lines attach to the tank fittings I'm not dealing with the cross frame that the rear shocks mount to.

The metal lines are firmly clamped to the support. I was able to use the support to secure the wires for the pump and sending unit also.

Now when the tank is in place I just need 2 wrenches to remove the lines and I can do this from the bottom side.

[jwhotrod]

below i am adding photos of what i have done with mine. i always come off the tank with braided hose to hard line going forward. I will not use that fill cap in my tank, i will add a neck when i get the box back on the frame and take it up into the drivers side fender, i feel that putting a fill in the box floor is a cop out and if you spill fuel in the box whatever is in there will smell of fuel. i run long distance quite a bit of the time and dont need my luggage smelling like fuel.

[LT7A]

I've really enjoyed reading this thread. I didn't see it during the initial build but it is really cool to see all of your fabrication process, beautifully finished work, get the tips you posted, and hear your thought process along the way. Such a great looking truck. I know I'm interested in seeing it out and about and how you're enjoying it. It's always cool when a build thread transitions into a "drive" thread.

[dsraven]

I'm with you on the in bed tank fill. I like to carry stuff in the bed so I put my filler on the fender. it's not a show truck anyway but if it was there are ways to make a fender fill fuel door look very nice without using one of those sports car style bolt on doors.

[Stepside Jim]

jwhotrod, that's a lot of craftmanship going on there, it makes my project look like the SS Minnow.

I see the section removed from your cross member for the fuel lines to pass by easier. This gets me to the tank fill cap....I'm with the both of you on the fill cap being outside the bed but since I'm all painted and together, well....I just had to settle.

Mentioning taking long drives, I see a couple in my future, I haven't been to Northern Il. for 18 years now, maybe this year.

[Rickysnickers]

I couldn't get your second photo straight, so here it is in a separate post.

[Stepside Jim]

Thanks LT7A, I appreciate you checking in. Your writing tells me I'm on the right track. I got caught in a build thread of somebody else many years ago, it also gave information, reasons why certain decisions were made and showed the build process along the way. When I say "along the way" I mean not just what was done but how it was done. Also perhaps the tools, the products and craftsmanship along the way.

One product I've come to use often, not only for it's electrical purpose but for strength and visual purposes. Good ole heat shrink tubing. For instance, I'm using stainless steel braided hose on the project. It has a nylon covering that can be snagged especially when pushed into a tight area. I buy my heat shrink "with adhesive inside" from Amazon in 4 ft rolls. Many different sizes available.

One such area is the vent tube holders I've welded on to the tank. I made the holder so that the tube actually snaps into the holder, the heat shrink gives a good snap fit and protects the nylon covering.

Next up, newer style fuel level gauge. No more swing arm with a float attached. There is a small hole or the fuel to enter and raise a float within. I haven't used it yet, but I thinking it will help keep the gauge from being sensitive and reading fuel slosh on our early design gauges.

[daveshilling]

Originally Posted by Stepside Jim

One such area is the vent tube holders I've welded on to the tank. I made the holder so that the tube actually snaps into the holder, the heat shrink gives a good snap fit and protects the nylon covering.

These are the little touches that I really love...when someone could justify a zip-tie somewhere, but they take that extra step that only a DIY guy or a super high end shop would do.

Awesome work!

[Stepside Jim]

Thanks for checking in Guys, it's always nice getting feed back.

daveshilling, brought up Zip ties, oh yeah, it would be so easy to just zip tie everything. I try to stay away from them being my go to fix. As long as I can plan the project I prefer to build brackets and use stronger /more permanent clamps to hold things.

But since we're on zip ties, on some projects I don't have the choice but to use zip ties. But since I know I have to use them I do have a way to make them more permanent and actually use them along with round steel tubing cut in half and welded to a plate that is bolted to the frame to create a solid support and help angle the direction of the lines.

In the pic below, of which is not my truck, I had multiple braided lines, battery cable, and fuel lines to run through a triangular opening in this frame. Once done, every thing was secure and nothing was rubbing on sharp edges.

Looking forward of that there are 2 black braided hoses be redirected along with being secured to a bracket.

This pic was taken during the fit up stage, there will be more zip ties in the vacant areas and the brackets will be painted ect.

Ok, just wanted to show an option for zip ties.

[_Ogre]

i was interested in your fuel gauge sending unit. does that work with the oem gauge?
how tall is it? link?

[Stepside Jim]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

i was interested in your fuel gauge sending unit. does that work with the oem gauge?
how tall is it? link?

Yes, it works with the oem gauge, in the listing you have to pick the Ohms range of the gauge you're using. My truck being 0 to 30 ohms I hooked it to the gauge and grounded it dry. With slowly rotating the sending unit and making the float within slide up and down in the tube, my gauge worked and showed the movement of the float.

It is listed by 1 inch increments. My tank is 8 inches deep where the sender is mounted, I welded in a sender bung for threads in the tank. Along with the gasket also I have about 1/2 inch from the bottom of the tank to the bottom of the sender.

These, along with many other odds and ends I found at Tanksinc.com website.

[dsraven]

nice clean work and well thought out. great job.
I use the shrink tube idea for lots of stuff other than electrical as well. there are lots of different types it seems but I prefer to go to an electrical supply place and buy the double wall stuff, with the hot glue type inside, and it is fairly stiff so it doesn't actually roll up but rather comes in 4 ft lengths or longer. it is a little harder to cut off a piece because the cut ends usually try to stick together. overcomable for sure. it works well for stuff like you are using here on the hose.

[dsraven]

I have a love/hate relationship with zip ties. they have their place and I love them for that, but, as a mechanic I can't tell you how many times I have sliced a hand or a forearm on a zip tie that has the tag end cut off but not totally cut off. leaving that nice rasor sharp bit sticking out right where your hand or forearm needs to slide past.
when wiring they can be great as a temporary loose loop to string wires through as you add circuits and build a harness. I use the zip ties with the added screw hole so it can be secured with a screw or a magnet to a spot where a harness clamp will be placed when done. the loop is left large so it will hold the harness in place but allow the wires to slip as required. then, when the circuits are done, the zip ties can be tightened up to hold the harness in a shape to fit the contours of where it is going to be secured, the screw or whatever is removed and the harness is taken out of the area and can be either taped or placed in a loom of your choice. as the tape or loom shielding comes to the spot where a cable tie is located that spot can be either taped help hold the shape or simply strung into the loom after the zip tie is removed.

[Stepside Jim]

Time sure passes by quick. As I've been working on the gas tank, one thing has been on my mind... weight distribution.

The front of the truck, over the 8 years, has sagged slightly, perhaps a 1/2 inch or so. The truck sits at a front downward angle. Everybody tells me it looks great to them but it's my truck so I installed a slightly stronger set of front coil springs, grrrrr I hate dealing with coil springs.

The front had to be attended to because I'm adding a very short 1/4 inch thick leaf to the rear springs. This leaf addition raised the rear about 5/8 inch. If I now put my body weight, around 170 pounds, on the rear bumper, I can squat the rear of the truck 1/2 inch. When I put the truck together I removed a leaf or two, it rides nice. If I would have left the spring stock, the extra weight probably wouldn't matter.

Why is this relevant? The truck has a cab tank now, 16 gallons, the weight of a full tank is distributed between the front axle and the rear axle.

This new tank, 20 gallons, over 120 pounds full is 100 percent on the rear axle. Long story short, I hope I've pre-thought the situation and acted accordingly to solve the stance of the truck before it's even an issue.

Couple pics of progress, putting gas in the tank should be relatively easy and hopefully without dripping gas on the bed. Lowering the tailgate, is easy, and I just installed new polished stainless linkage from Mar-k, they look great.

Plan is, drop tailgate, open lid, remove gas cap, bring in the nozzle, tip sideways, gas er up. No going over the bed side, no going over the tailgate.

I used the small polished aluminum opening cover. Pretty much too small to get your fingers in to twist the cap off. I welded on a vertical flat on the cap, easy to remove now. I went with the small opening because I didn't want to weaken the wood it fits into.

When installing the polished flip cover they don't give much space for bolting it down so I made a plate to bolt to, then welded a small tab to attach the cover opener/closer thing.

[Stepside Jim]

I've been taking care of many other odds and ends on the truck so I haven't put gas in the new tank yet.

One thing I did is install the factory style headliner and the most pathetic design of a retaining rubber piece. I attempted this project before, this time I decided I was going to win, nearly 6 hours later I won. I'd like to know how this was installed at the factory going down the assembly line? I did make a tool that I could pull the metal lip down to get the proper opening to fit the rubber into, it helped a lot.

Since we talked about zip ties and I prefer to stay away from them, I do however enjoy making brackets. If I can make them for my exact purpose and still look like an original piece, mission accomplished. If I can, I will weld the nuts on the backside to make the assembly easier, even these little number 10 screws. I ran the braided lines under from the frame, to the floor then over the bell housing, next to the distributor to the regulator. It's a clean look, all well supported and I plan on installing A.C. sometime, so I still have space for the compressor.

We touched on the tank vent line and how I make a support on the back of the tank where the line snaps into. From that point the line goes into the rear inner fender opening and I made brackets to support it as high up as I can.

The top aluminum piece is a safety check valve and was a screened opening on the hidden side. I like to put a fuel filter in also, mainly to keep the tank from freely breathing when it sits in a garage, I find it helps keep the garage from smeeling like gas.

[Stepside Jim]

I can say so far the tank making, mounting, plumbing, ect is working great.

The gas gauge reads full til the level drops, then reads fine til time for fill up. It's not as sensitive as the old style was when braking or turning.

Fill up is easy, drop the tailgate, open the lid, unscrew the cap. I can visually see the level of gas as it's filling.

It does not put off any noticeable gas smell in the shop when sitting with the garage doors closed.

The only sound the pump makes is a slight humming sound when turned on and that's only without the engine running to hear that.

Dialing in the regulator was a breeze.

Now, I am old school, I prefer to be independent. I can't help myself. Yes, that is a fuel pump mounted on the frame rail. I always carry a spare HEI distributor and a spare fuel pump in the cab.

I still carry the HEI distributor in the cab, but I now carry a spare fuel pump back by the gas tank. It's plug in is fitted to plug into the power supply going to the in-tank pump. The fuel lines that are attached to the spare pump are cut and have the proper ends to pull gas from the return line fitting that goes to the bottom of the tank. The outlet of the spare pump is cut to length and has the proper fitting to thread onto the line going to the regulator.

I have the threaded caps to close the open fittings to keep dirt out. Flip the switch and I should be rolling down the road.

No, the bypass line won't work off the regulator now but the pump is only 7 pounds, I won't need a bypass. If I need to bypass the regulator all together, I'll run the inlet line to the regulator directly to the carb inlet.

With all that spare pump work, I sure hope I never have to use it.

[dsraven]

have you been stuck on the side of the road due to a fuel pump issue? dunno why i would ask, lol.
now that is some forethought, not even really gonna get dirty if the in tank pump fails and you gotta switch. you did forget to bag up a tarp and hang it under there with a rip cord to release it so you have something to lay on if need be, haha.
the underhood pic that show the regulator munting, curious if the reg mount is bolted down in more than a single spot, otherwise vibration may eventually cause a failure that has potential to be catastrophic. once set you could also remove the reg gauge to remove another failure point that could spew fuel all over the hot shiny parts.

[daveshilling]

Originally Posted by Stepside Jim

I did make a tool that I could pull the metal lip down to get the proper opening to fit the rubber into, it helped a lot.

We may all need to see the tool and how you use it, if this is a common struggle!