Rat repair.

[swamp rat]

So nothing done yet, worked all weekend and not feeling to well today, spent my free time reading about body repair, its amazing how opinions vary about having no gap or leaving a gap, ect.. Kinda like an oil thread

While i'm ok with the body line contour from front to back on my door, basically its maintained a straight line, i am not happy with how the repair panel has sunk in between the spot weld seam and the bottom fold, I had all the edges are folded over before welding so trying to pull the surface out is just going to wedge the folds up against the inner shell tighter. I'm not going to slather that much bondo, just too thick.

My stock metal thickness is .043, the repair panel is .032. I called Tabco today and talked to Tim about my project and asked him about their door panel thicknesses he said theirs are .036, he said he was surprised mine were anything over .040 but i assured him i had the paint and rust removed before i mic'ed the surface. I went ahead and ordered 2 of their panels and headed out the door, he called me back in about 10 minutes and said if i had the time in 2 days he could reload the driver door die and try stamping a couple thicker pieces, the thickest being .046, he would include them free with my order and not charge me any more for shipping, all he wants in return is my feedback on which one i think works best.. Not that i think I'm the best guy to ask but i have come to hate the .032 stuff i got from Classic Industry's (Key parts i believe)

I'm not a fan of doing this but i think the only way i can do this skin replacement is to go ahead and cut an access hole in the bottom of the door that i can reach into so i can fine tune any warpage and planish the spots as I'm going, at least the access hole will be in a place that's not visible unless your laying on the ground. I just cannot reach all the way into the door from the inner access hole and run a hammer, let alone even see the skin for most of the door, even if the door is upside down or sideways.

So gonna start unfolding the folds first to see if some of the sunk down area springs back up first to see if the skin is pulling on the lower edge of the door, then start cutting the panel out slowly to minimize the heat build up.

I will not submit....

[swamp rat]

I did try pulling the surface up to restore some of the contour the other day, i succeeded to a point but also introduced some pretty bad oil canning, i didn't post this yesterday but this is why i gave up and ordered more skins..

[rgunlock]

I can't offer you much advise as none of my patches required that I run that long a weld, but know that I'm rooting for you!

[ryanroo]

I applaud your attitude. Sometimes learning sucks...Haha. I'm a greenhorn at panel work too. I have no doubt your finished product will be great. It's nice to hear of a company who listens and has good customer service. I'll be remembering that!

[swamp rat]

Thanks guys i appreciate it, i'll be honist, i think this door will be harder than any of the other panels i have to deal with, and this is a hell of a learning curve, thats ok tho.. When i get the thicker door panel and give it a 3rd go around i'll ether be successful or i'll be looking for a restoration shop LOL!

I admit i have been kicking the restoration shop around a bit because this is a very sentimental truck, but right now i just cannot sink that kind of money into it. once i get my bike back and payed off i'll have a better idea where i'm at as far as highering some work done.

I am really itching to have this truck done so i can work on the 67!

[swamp rat]

I just remembered something i wanted to ask about, the tires on my truck have all about maybe 500 miles on them now, i just noticed that on the front tires the little casting nubs or fingers are almost all worn off on the outside but not the inside, i figure my toe in must be out a little? but which way, too much toe in? or too little?

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

I just remembered something i wanted to ask about, the tires on my truck have all about maybe 500 miles on them now, i just noticed that on the front tires the little casting nubs or fingers are almost all worn off on the outside but not the inside, i figure my toe in must be out a little? but which way, too much toe in? or too little?

Sounds like too much toe in, but uneven wear on one side of the tire could also be related to an incorrect camber setting. If the wear appears to be equal on both sides, I'd suspect the toe in is the culprit, though. On older vehicles, manufacturers didn't build much caster into the front suspension. That, plus the fact most vehicles were equipped with bias ply tires instead of radials, meant it was common for the toe in spec to be 1/8" to as much as 3/16". The increased toe in kept the car from wandering.

On modern vehicles that run radial tires and have several degrees of caster built in, the spec is more like zero to 1/16" max. The best approach on our trucks is to try to get as much caster as possible without compromising the camber. I like zero degrees of camber on the driver side and negative 1/4 degree on the passenger side to help keep the truck straight on roads that are crowned. Then set the toe in to 1/16" and you should have minimal scrubbing on the tires and decent handling. This is just my personal opinion and I'm sure there are guys who might have different thoughts on it. If you purchase aftermarket suspension components that increase camber, alter the spindle height and etc., you should follow the vendor's recommendations.

[ryanroo]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

I just remembered something i wanted to ask about, the tires on my truck have all about maybe 500 miles on them now, i just noticed that on the front tires the little casting nubs or fingers are almost all worn off on the outside but not the inside, i figure my toe in must be out a little? but which way, too much toe in? or too little?

My best guess is the outsides show wear more because the way the axle geometry is set when you corner. It's pretty normal, so long as it isn't a large discrepancy. The angle of the ball joints and the positive caster setting forces the inside tire very hard on the outside edge. The same things act on the outside tire, but it tends to flatten out the effective camber instead of pushing it very positive. Then the truck pushes the outside tire through the corner so it the inertia forces that outside edge into the road harder. The effect is more pronounced with a wheel that has less back space. I don't mean to over explain, just here for reference. If it seems too heavy Vic has good advice.

Vic, these trucks with the 4x axle and leaf springs don't have much camber adjustment. It's set by the axle and it's usually(hopefully) zero. You can pretty easily mess with caster, and they like 3-6 positive.

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by ryanroo

..these trucks with the 4x axle and leaf springs don't have much camber adjustment. It's set by the axle and it's usually(hopefully) zero. You can pretty easily mess with caster, and they like 3-6 positive.

Dang! 4X4! How did I forget that? Getting old is the pits!

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by Vic1947

Getting old is the pits!

Tell me, i'm a 55 year old in a 100 year old body! LOL!

No sweat Vic i look at it this way, when its time to work on the 67 i have a place to reference for the front end geometry..

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by ryanroo

My best guess is the outsides show wear more because the way the axle geometry is set when you corner. It's pretty normal, so long as it isn't a large discrepancy. The angle of the ball joints and the positive caster setting forces the inside tire very hard on the outside edge. The same things act on the outside tire, but it tends to flatten out the effective camber instead of pushing it very positive. Then the truck pushes the outside tire through the corner so it the inertia forces that outside edge into the road harder. The effect is more pronounced with a wheel that has less back space. I don't mean to over explain, just here for reference. If it seems too heavy Vic has good advice.

I was debating on if its worth it to go to a front end alignment place to just measure my caster and toe in to let me know what i got.. Question would be who would ya trust with a 44 year old truck...

[swamp rat]

The wheel polishing place called on Friday and said my wheels would not be done this Saturday as originally thought but should be done by Tuesday, glad he called to let me know so i didn't make the drive up there yesterday.

In the mean time i did remount the door and worked the frozen lock and got it turning again so i can make the drove to the place so he can mount my tires for me.

The new door panels are not here yet, i guess i better call Monday and see about getting status and a tracking number..

Once the wheels are done i'm going to go ahead and cut the door skin off and ready for the next go around.


Can anybody lead me to a good replacement timing cover for an SBC 350? even a stock one would be fine, the one i put on the engine when i built it is a cheap Cal Custom unit, i noticed it seemed like the seal would not want to sit flush with the cover and i suspect it could be a bad stamping so time to get rid of it. Wish i had kept my stock one.

[litew8]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

Can anybody lead me to a good replacement timing cover for an SBC 350? even a stock one would be fine

Something like Proform should be fine. They're licensed by GM. link

[swamp rat]

Geeze what was suppose to be a "few" days to swap out some dies is now a week and a half, still no new door skin's shipped out the last time i checked, i called him on the 23'rd and he said he was just getting ready to load the dies so i hope something shipped today..


I have been sitting patiently not wanting to cut anything else up because i have to drive the truck to the tire polishing place to have my tires swapped to the slots, about an hour drive, They were suppose to be done about a week and a half ago too, but i just talked to him again today and he is honistly saying that the tin shack he polishes in (i have seen the equipment and shack) gets over 100* to 110* really fast in the kinda weather were having as soon as he starts up the machine, i guess i can understand that being as its the hottest june on record. He said he's gonna try and get there early get them done early next week.. Hopefully

I may have to give in and start cutting some rot out of the other door skin soon just to get busy.

[swamp rat]

So i obviously haven't posted for a while, its not been a good summer for getting any work done on the Rat for various family and other reasons, mainly my legs and feet, I want you all to know i haven't given up on the Rat but have had to take a step back for a bit.

On a brighter note i had a visitor today, an individual whom has been both a mentor and inspiration when i need help and been good enough to answer many emails, you may know him by his work on the following threads, a 57 ford 2 door sedan named Mabelline, a truck named CRLS, or a truck named Silver Streaker.

That's right I had the pleasure of meeting Vic Cook and his Brother in law today, we had a great visit and it was a pleasure to get to know Vic on a more a more than email and forum level. Thank you Vic for taking the time to stop by while you are in the area, i know it was a bit of a drive for you guys to get to my place but ya made my day! Had to grab a picture of Vic with Swamp Rat before he left.

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

... I had the pleasure of meeting Vic Cook and his Brother in law today, we had a great visit and it was a pleasure to get to know Vic on a more a more than email and forum level. Thank you Vic for taking the time to stop by while you are in the area, i know it was a bit of a drive for you guys to get to my place but ya made my day! Had to grab a picture of Vic with Swamp Rat before he left.

Thanks for the hospitality and the nickel tour today, Mike, we had a great time! The Rat looks even better in person than in the pictures. I know you have a lot going on right now, but things always calm down eventually. Looking forward to seeing more progress when you do finally get back going. Take it from a guy that took 25 years to finish a project, the only person you need to make happy is yourself.

[DWilbur]

Good to hear your doing better and hope to see you back wrenching again soon.

[swamp rat]

Well, my little break is over and its time to resurface, just in time for rainy season.

Went out and did a little space organizing again and am ready to start digging into them pesky rocker and kicker panels, got the hood and cowl off today, tomorrow i need to get the spare tire carrier and bumper off and hopefully the driver fender off.

What i'm not sure of is if i need to totally remove the grill to get the fender off? or if i can maybe pull a couple screws only and leave the grill in place?

[7dee2]

Good to see your back at it! With the core support extending into the fender and the fender extending into the grill surround IMO I'd plan to pull the surround and grill as a unit to minimize any damage. We pulled the bumper also to get better access to all the attaching screws. Here is a pic of what remained after removal.

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by 7dee2

Good to see your back at it! With the core support extending into the fender and the fender extending into the grill surround IMO I'd plan to pull the surround and grill as a unit to minimize any damage. We pulled the bumper also to get better access to all the attaching screws. Here is a pic of what remained after removal.

Thank you for the tip on the grill, it came out nice as a whole unit. Yea the bumper had to come off irregardless as it has a couple dents in it, i have a stock chrome one in good condition to go on but i may just straighten the one i took off and repaint it, not sure yet.


I do have a question tho, if i remove the center bolt at the firewall harness does that plug or fitting split in half so i can feed it thru the driver fender? or do i have to start labeling and unhooking the harness at the core support?

My plan also includes permanent removal of the front spare tire carrier, the bolt holding the tire and wheel was stripped out apparently by the tire company when i had my last set of tires mounted because the last time i removed the tire it was fine, i have a spare tire bracket for the bed that i need to install.

I did have to make a dump run with the truck today, i already had the hood and cowl off yesterday, first time i drive the truck that way, it was kinda odd staring at the engine going down the road. I started disassembly of the bumper, grill, and running boards, and i must say the boards made it easy to get in and out of the truck, now i have to learn to how to step high being as i'm 5'7" LOL!

A pic of my temporary seat while i parked the truck back under its car cover, not enough room on the side of the house to pull the seat after parking.

And a sneak peak of what lies ahead.

[mcbassin]

Glad to see you back on the Swamp Rat.

if i remove the center bolt at the firewall harness does that plug or fitting split in half so i can feed it thru the driver fender? or do i have to start labeling and unhooking the harness at the core support?

Yes, the plug does split in half. You can work it through the inside of the fender if you need to. There might or might not be a plastic retainer inside the fender holding the wire. I'm not sure if that is standard or not.

[NONHOG]

Man those slots look good!

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by NONHOG

Man those slots look good!

Thanks! there is a little surface pitting in them and they need to be hit with the polisher again but they sure look better than the old directional mags i had on.

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by mcbassin

Glad to see you back on the Swamp Rat.

Yes, the plug does split in half. You can work it through the inside of the fender if you need to. There might or might not be a plastic retainer inside the fender holding the wire. I'm not sure if that is standard or not.

Thanks, it also dawned on me late last night that being as i'm removing the inner fender that once separated i didn't need to remove the plug.

[swamp rat]

Well didn't get quite as far as i wanted today, i got the inner fender and driver fender off, naturally there were a couple bolts that froze solid in the fender clip nut thing a ma jiggers so i had to get out the torch and the cut off wheel, naturally i nicked into the inner fender a little with the torch.. But it has some rust so i need to decide of i repair or replace.

I'm really happy that hidden under the fender was much less rust than i was expecting on the cab/cowl, pretty much looks like i only have to do inner/outer rocker and inner kick panel and a portion of the floor. I'll inspect the rear cab corner closer but i think they are both fine, maybe minor touch up. i hope the other side of the cab/cowl will be the same!

I had hoped to have the bracing cut and welded in but maybe tomorrow before work.

Pictures aren't cooperating today, have to keep track of how i'm holding my cell when taking pictures, don't strain your necks.