'66 Sunbeam Minx Project - F20C/6sp/4-link/Discs...

[Frizzle Fry]

you're in!

[Frizzle Fry]

Nice looking Minx here

[Darkrider]

I have finally read through this entire thread and am slowly making my way through the Tahoe thread as well..all i gotta say is SIIIIIIIIIIIICCCCKKKKK!!!!! I wish i had even a quarter of your skill when it comes to working on sheet metal!

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by Darkrider

I have finally read through this entire thread and am slowly making my way through the Tahoe thread as well..all i gotta say is SIIIIIIIIIIIICCCCKKKKK!!!!! I wish i had even a quarter of your skill when it comes to working on sheet metal!

Thanks a lot man. Glad you dig it. More progress has been made. Pics tonight...

[Frizzle Fry]

As promised.

I took a little break from sheet metal and knocked out a couple items that had been buggin me (read ADD kicked in ...again).

During mock up I had noticed that the Spohn Del-Shperes were limited in travel by one of the tapered bushings. I'm using two on each but a design element causes one side to hit before the other (see pics).

Bushing at travel limit:


Other side has a ~1/8" left:




Solution (poor man's lathe)






Result:




This may not look like much here but I gained 1/2" of travel at the other end of the arms.

[67cheby]

your just amazing....just sayin

[Frizzle Fry]

Another thing that bugged me was the tight clearance between the lower arms and the xmember at one point when the alignment bolts were set to the inboard position:

Solution:






The S2000 xmember sections I used were lopped off behind the rear arm mount holes in order to fit the Minx because the Minx frame rails drop down just aft of the arms. So it has been the plan, and is finally implemented, to box the ends for restored strength:


Ready for powdercoat:

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by 67cheby

your just amazing....just sayin

Hey now

[chevy2racr]

its all just awesome, I want you to get it together for two reasons, 1. i wanna see video of this terror tearing up the streets or track. 2. I wanna see work on the tahoe!

[mcbassin]

Super progress Frizzle! Your welds and metal work set the bar so high.....gives me something to shoot for

[-Greg72]

Awesome work Frizz!

I've been lurking and admiring your builds for a while now. There is one aspect of this build that concerns me, and that is the sway bar mod.

The sway bar is designed to absorb torsional forces and distribute them evenly down the length of the bar. When you cut and welded that bar to shorten it, you increased the stiffness (by decreasing the length) and I suspect that there is also a "stiff spot" in the bar at the weld point now.... So torsional forces will not be distributed evenly anymore.

I don't know what the ultimate effect will be, but I suspect that you might end up with cracks at the welded area, and/or the bar will behave like a much thicker diameter one and may upset the handling.

I am fairly certain that there are companies out there who can custom-bend a sway bar to match the shape you need using your modified sway bar as the template. Or you could convert to a 3-piece sway bar setup with a center torsion bar and two splined end links. That style would allow you to swap out the center bar (thicker or thinner) to fine tune the handling later on. Or change the lengths of the end links to soften or stiffen things up.

Just a few thoughts over my morning coffee.... The fabrication is amazing!


-G
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Posted via Mobile Device

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by chevy2racr

its all just awesome, I want you to get it together for two reasons, 1. i wanna see video of this terror tearing up the streets or track. 2. I wanna see work on the tahoe!

I'm right there with you man!

Originally Posted by mcbassin

Super progress Frizzle! Your welds and metal work set the bar so high.....gives me something to shoot for

Thanks.

Originally Posted by -Greg72

Awesome work Frizz!

I've been lurking and admiring your builds for a while now. There is one aspect of this build that concerns me, and that is the sway bar mod.

The sway bar is designed to absorb torsional forces and distribute them evenly down the length of the bar. When you cut and welded that bar to shorten it, you increased the stiffness (by decreasing the length) and I suspect that there is also a "stiff spot" in the bar at the weld point now.... So torsional forces will not be distributed evenly anymore.

I don't know what the ultimate effect will be, but I suspect that you might end up with cracks at the welded area, and/or the bar will behave like a much thicker diameter one and may upset the handling.

I am fairly certain that there are companies out there who can custom-bend a sway bar to match the shape you need using your modified sway bar as the template. Or you could convert to a 3-piece sway bar setup with a center torsion bar and two splined end links. That style would allow you to swap out the center bar (thicker or thinner) to fine tune the handling later on. Or change the lengths of the end links to soften or stiffen things up.

Just a few thoughts over my morning coffee.... The fabrication is amazing!


-G
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Posted via Mobile Device

You are right about the bar being torsionally stiffer than it was before. It's shorter and also has a dead spot as you pointed out. I am confident in the strength, however. Even if it did break the result would be lack of anti-sway, not structural failure. The question is; how much stiffer than stock will it feel in this configuration? The alternatives you mentioned are definitely in the backup plan.
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[Jvsapp]

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

Solution (poor man's lathe)

now only if that lathe panned out a few weeks back.....

looks like you gained a TON of articulation there though. also looks like the subframe is just about ready for powdercoating?

awesome work as usual. i can understand the whole ADD thing. small things drive me nuts too.

[thor]

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

As promised.

I took a little break from sheet metal and knocked out a couple items that had been buggin me (read ADD kicked in ...again).

During mock up I had noticed that the Spohn Del-Shperes were limited in travel by one of the tapered bushings. I'm using two on each but a design element causes one side to hit before the other (see pics).

Solution (poor man's lathe)


Result:


This may not look like much here but I gained 1/2" of travel at the other end of the arms.

Did you chuck that up in a drill and use a grinder? Awesome idea! And now you have more wheel travel. Pre-runner!!!

[Jvsapp]

taking another look at those pics..... FF man you must own stock in a grinding disc company? i see what looks like at least 4 discs on the bench/ground in that pic.

and i think i have the same hole saw mandrel!

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by Jvsapp

...looks like the subframe is just about ready for powdercoating?

Yes!

Originally Posted by thor

Did you chuck that up in a drill and use a grinder?

Yes!

Originally Posted by Jvsapp

taking another look at those pics..... FF man you must own stock in a grinding disc company? i see what looks like at least 4 discs on the bench/ground in that pic.

Yes!


...and another arrival to the party (tintable)

[VA72C10]

Nice! Where do you find the most durable flap discs and wire wheels? I've been getting the wheels from HF and they are super cheap on sale and seem to last a decent time compared to a dewalt one I had but don't know how to compare....

I've been getting the flap discs from Lehigh valley adhesives for fairly cheap but not happy with how they last....

[-Greg72]

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

I'm right there with you man!

Thanks.

You are right about the bar being torsionally stiffer than it was before. It's shorter and also has a dead spot as you pointed out. I am confident in the strength, however. Even if it did break the result would be lack of anti-sway, not structural failure. The question is; how much stiffer than stock will it feel in this configuration? The alternatives you mentioned are definitely in the backup plan.
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The formulas for calculating sway bar stiffness are on the interwebs but as you mentioned, it's largely an academic argument....the test drive will tell you if it's too stiff or not. I don't recall if this bar is on the front or rear. If it's a rear bar, you will probably have a ton of oversteer, if it's a front bar you'll see understeer. With as much power as you are adding to that chassis, it might be good to set the car up for some understeer and when you want to kick the tail out with oversteer....just call for it with the throttle!

Good stuff... Keep those pics coming!

-G
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Posted via Mobile Device

[hgs_notes]

Just wondering if heating the entire bar would fix the grain in the heat affected zone of the weld. Not a full heat treat, which would probably harden it more, but maybe a soak at like 5-600 F. I'm not a metalurgist, but work with ASME steel fab shops, and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once.

[Frizzle Fry]

Just started buying some of the consumables at HF. The cut-off wheels work fine. Grind disc seem ok. Flaps wear fast. Can't remember if I picked up a wire wheel there or not. Prior to that I was getting them from various places; Airgas, HD/Lowes, Fastenal, local metal shop.

It's the front bar that I've shortened. So yes, understeer will be the result of too much front anti-roll. I do have a rear bar I plan on running so that will help. Ultimately I'd like to build a front bar with blade arms:




HG, I'll have to googlify that!

[hgs_notes]

Could also reduce the diameter of the bar, a good machinist should be able to figure a way to mount it in the chuck.

[Frizzle Fry]

The blade ends provide instant adjustability. By turning them their flex rate changes which provides the equivalent of a thicker or thinner bar.
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[67cheby]

my little brain cant even comprehend how that could possibly work....BUT WOW THAT IS COOL

[ERASER5]

Originally Posted by 67cheby

my little brain cant even comprehend how that could possibly work....BUT WOW THAT IS COOL

X2! Dangit! No sleep tonight. This will be turning in my brain for days!

[65Pickup]

I'll come out right and ask for more info on the blade arms, what are the stepped levels about, how do you dial them in firmer/softer? Cool stuff as usual and thanks in advance.