Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by AussieinNC

Good to see you are making progress..now that it will at least run and sort of idle...getting the carb right is next step....

You need to either...get the shop to refund you for the junky job they did on the carb...or...put it down to experience and grab another carb, either an exchange rebuilt one from an auto parts store or maybe google guaranteedcarburetors. They have rebuilt Quadrajets for $198 inc shipping...

"not a plug...just a simple parts assist admins"

One critical thing you should add is an inline fuel filter between the pump and the carb...

Once you have the carb right, set your idle to about 700, block off the vac advance and set timing to 12...BTDC...reconnect the vac line and set your idle to 700...in Drive....MAKE SURE SOMEONE IS IN THE DRIVERS SEAT WITH THEIR FOOT ON THE BRAKE while you set the idle in drive.

Good point made earlier about fuel dilution by gas flooding the carb...once you get the carb right, and before you drive it on the road...change your oil and filter...

You are doing great...there are a lot of us on here more than willing to help...

Thanks again! It's way better than it was. Still taking steps backwards it seems, but I'll post the latest in another post.

Regarding the oil, I checked and level seems ok, but I do think the dipstick smelled like fuel. I'll try to remember to refer back to this when I get the carb taken care of. I gotta figure out how to proceed there.

The concensus seems to be that it is just wrong. Thanks to all for tips on where to potentially get a rebuild or a new one.

Fuel filter: It's a hard line going into the carb. Recommendation on where exactly to add one?

Thanks again, and happy 4th!

[dmjlambert]

Originally Posted by ncpetersc

Thanks again! It's way better than it was. Still taking steps backwards it seems, but I'll post the latest in another post.

Regarding the oil, I checked and level seems ok, but I do think the dipstick smelled like fuel. I'll try to remember to refer back to this when I get the carb taken care of. I gotta figure out how to proceed there.

The concensus seems to be that it is just wrong. Thanks to all for tips on where to potentially get a rebuild or a new one.

Fuel filter: It's a hard line going into the carb. Recommendation on where exactly to add one?

Thanks again, and happy 4th!

I think you will find it not too daunting to take the carburetor off and to the work bench, and take the top off of it, carefully remove the gasket, and check the needle where it clips to the float to make sure it is clipped right. This is what geezer#99 mentioned in post #40.

https://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/...at.2Ffuel_bowl

And check the float level and correct if necessary. You would not be getting into the inner workings of the carb very much. You may be closer than you think to taking care of the flooding issue. Post the carburetor part number, and post pictures of it, and ask questions if you need to as you go. Don't over-tighten screws on the carb.

The Quadrajet has the filter built in to the inlet, so you don't need to add an external filter. If you add a filter, don't use a clear plastic one, use a metal one, and put it inline with the rubber hose that goes between the frame and the fuel pump, that would put the filter on the no pressure side of the fuel pump. But I really don't think you need one with a Quadrajet. If the internal filter is getting too much rust or dirt in it too often, then you just have to fix that problem, such as clean out and seal up or replace your gas tank.

If you take care of the flooding, then change the oil and proceed with other things. My 2 cents.

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by dmjlambert

I think you will find it not too daunting to take the carburetor off and to the work bench, and take the top off of it, carefully remove the gasket, and check the needle where it clips to the float to make sure it is clipped right. This is what geezer#99 mentioned in post #40.

https://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/...at.2Ffuel_bowl

And check the float level and correct if necessary. You would not be getting into the inner workings of the carb very much. You may be closer than you think to taking care of the flooding issue. Post the carburetor part number, and post pictures of it, and ask questions if you need to as you go. Don't over-tighten screws on the carb.

The Quadrajet has the filter built in to the inlet, so you don't need to add an external filter. If you add a filter, don't use a clear plastic one, use a metal one, and put it inline with the rubber hose that goes between the frame and the fuel pump, that would put the filter on the no pressure side of the fuel pump. But I really don't think you need one with a Quadrajet. If the internal filter is getting too much rust or dirt in it too often, then you just have to fix that problem, such as clean out and seal up or replace your gas tank.

If you take care of the flooding, then change the oil and proceed with other things. My 2 cents.

Okay, well I am going to call the shop and see what they'll do for me. I plan on telling them that besides finding an unplugged port, and choke not connected (sloppy) the thing appears to be flooding. Just going to say I paid for rebuild, and it is clearly not right. Then ask for a refund. I'll let you guys know how that goes.

I found the $198 carb on the net, and I can keep mine for $88 more. Any good or bad experiences with guaranteedcuarberators? I'll keep looking around (thanks for all the suggestions).

Pulling the carb off? Now I am getting worried. But with you're support maybe I'll give it a shot this weekend.

BTW any thoughts/theories of my latest symptom of it running rough and the carb hissing (vac bouncing around 15). But if I cover the air horn it smooths out, stops hissing, and vac returns to 20. Is this another sign the carb isn't right? My divorced choke is still disconnected.

THANKS AGAIN!

[70 shorty]

On CorvetteForum.com there's a guy Lars out in Colorado who rebuilds Quadrajet carbs and does an incredible job. I think he has a couple of week turn around on his jobs. His email is V8fastcars@msn.com. He also is practically a genius a tuning an engine and getting them to run great, and is very willing to share his knowledge. Shoot him an email describing your problems, and maybe discuss a carb rebuild with him. Do some research on him, and you'll find nothing but praise for his work.

[panhead59]

You're getting very good info. The hei dist. Issue just gets rid of points, provides a hotter spark and eliminates other issues like worn bearings etc. A definite upgrade but not a necessity. Very cost effective though. Your carb issues can Possibly be fixed by you or someone else. A lot of people just replace the darn thing and be done with it. But you may want to attempt the repair yourself. You are getting so many responses because you do your homework and address things people suggest. You will get there. Keep up the good work.

[geezer#99]

Look in the carb when it’s running. Use a small flashlight. If you see any fuel at all then it’s flooding.

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Look in the carb when it’s running. Use a small flashlight. If you see any fuel at all then it’s flooding.

Will try to do this today.

Thanks!

[geezer#99]

Originally Posted by ncpetersc

Will try to do this today.

Thanks!

When you do also look for the two screws you need to remove when you pull the top off the carb.
Here’sa Quadrajet manual in this list for you. Just open the one you need.
http://www.carburetor-parts.com/Free...ls_ep_274.html

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

When you do also look for the two screws you need to remove when you pull the top off the carb.
Here’sa Quadrajet manual in this list for you. Just open the one you need.
http://www.carburetor-parts.com/Free...ls_ep_274.html

Thanks geezer#99!

[bMr]

Another rebuilder is http://quadrajetpower.com/ out of Texas. They rebuilt mine, including re-bushing of the throttle shafts and I was happy with the result.

Lots of great advice in this thread, the biggest thing is to just keep at it. It sounds like several variables are in play and methodically working your way through them is the best approach. I agree with others that solving the flooding issue is priority 1.

If you have the time to dive into it--and to be methodical doing it--do what someone else suggested and remove your carb to the bench and check it out. Lots of good material out there on rebuilding to get you through the assembly, including the very important but often overlooked tip about how the needle hangs on the float.

IMO the Qjet isn't complicated but it is nuanced, patience and understanding of its systems will go a long way.

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Look in the carb when it’s running. Use a small flashlight. If you see any fuel at all then it’s flooding.

I definitely see something. Got some pictures, but a video may be more informative. I have to figure out how to get one up, we can link to youTube correct?

Thanks!

[Steeveedee]

That carburetor does not appear to have been rebuilt. At all. It certainly shouldn't have all that soot in the primary bores, in any event. If you get any guff from the shop who claims they rebuilt this, refer to your state's version of the Bureau of Automotive Repair. You got ripped off, imo.

The item in Pic 2 is the Transmission Controlled Spark solenoid. It limits vacuum advance until the engine is warmed up (there is a thermostatic switch in line, which may have been removed), and the transmission is in high gear. It helps with quicker warmups and to lower hydrocarbon emissions.

[AussieinNC]

How long ago was this carb supposedly "rebuilt"?

That pic showing inside the air horn tells me the carb was not dipped as part of the rebuild process...I would never perform a rebuild without dipping the entire carb body and top...

There is a considerable amount of built up crud inside the air horn, the air bleeds are filthy and the general condition is poor.

I can see fuel dampness inside the air port indicating the fuel float level is way too high...obviously not correctly set during rebuild.

Its no wonder you are having issues...

Re guaranteedcarburetors experiences...I have purchased 4 Quadrajets over the past 12 months from them...nothing but good results from these guys...
I use these on engine builds for clients and usually supply a wrecker yard second hand one in exchange...(why dont I build them myself ?...sometimes I do but its usually a time crunch situation...I order online, it turns up and works...)

I would be demanding a refund from this shop of horrors....

Just my two cents worth...

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by AussieinNC

How long ago was this carb supposedly "rebuilt"?

I just picked it up a week ago yesterday. June 27th.

I tried to call them today, but got no answer. Hopefully they are just closed for the holiday still... oh man... I am so disappointed.

[dmjlambert]

The hissing is probably it just drawing in air, which is is supposed to do. When the engine is warmed up, the smaller top choke plate should be fully open and the big one closed. If you cover it to block some of the air from going in, you are changing the air to fuel mixture. The mix should be set properly for good idle, and that is a carb adjustment. So, if you are covering the top of the carb or partially closing the choke plate and it runs better, that is because the engine is not warmed up yet, or the carb is set to run too lean or it is gunked up inside again already, or you have a vacuum leak somewhere that if you fixed it would richen the mixture. A vacuum leak can be around the edges of the carburetor where it mounts to the engine, or in a vacuum device that you have hooked up, or an unplugged vacuum port that you are not using. How many ports do you have on that carburetor, and are the unused ones plugged?

It makes a difference which port you use for the distributor. There is ported vacuum, which has no vacuum at idle, and manifold vacuum, which has vacuum at idle. If your distributor is connected to ported vacuum and then you change it to manifold vacuum port, it will idle faster and probably smoother. The factory put the distributor on ported vacuum to retard the timing and make it more fully burn the fuel when sitting at stop lights, to reduce pollution. Move it to a manifold vacuum port and see how it performs. You may need to turn down the idle speed after doing that.

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by dmjlambert

The hissing is probably it just drawing in air, which is is supposed to do. When the engine is warmed up, the smaller top choke plate should be fully open and the big one closed. If you cover it to block some of the air from going in, you are changing the air to fuel mixture. The mix should be set properly for good idle, and that is a carb adjustment. So, if you are covering the top of the carb or partially closing the choke plate and it runs better, that is because the engine is not warmed up yet, or the carb is set to run too lean or it is gunked up inside again already, or you have a vacuum leak somewhere that if you fixed it would richen the mixture. A vacuum leak can be around the edges of the carburetor where it mounts to the engine, or in a vacuum device that you have hooked up, or an unplugged vacuum port that you are not using. How many ports do you have on that carburetor, and are the unused ones plugged?

It makes a difference which port you use for the distributor. There is ported vacuum, which has no vacuum at idle, and manifold vacuum, which has vacuum at idle. If your distributor is connected to ported vacuum and then you change it to manifold vacuum port, it will idle faster and probably smoother. The factory put the distributor on ported vacuum to retard the timing and make it more fully burn the fuel when sitting at stop lights, to reduce pollution. Move it to a manifold vacuum port and see how it performs. You may need to turn down the idle speed after doing that.

Wow! A lot of information here, thanks!

I am fairly certain the distributor advance is connected to "ported" vacuum.

I'll try to answer more of your questions about # of ports etc. when I get home. I'll take some pictures.

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by ncpetersc

Wow! A lot of information here, thanks!

I am fairly certain the distributor advance is connected to "ported" vacuum.

I'll try to answer more of your questions about # of ports etc. when I get home. I'll take some pictures.

Attaching pics of ports:
Pic 1: front of carb. The port on the left behind the fuel line is for the choke vac can. Fatter hose under fuel inlet is PCV (drivers side) and smog cannister I think it is referred to. The one on the right T's off to smog cannister and then to PIC 2.

Pic 2: is the solenoid I believe that cuts vacuum at idle as you were talking about? This then goes to the distributor advance can.

Pics 3 & 4: plugged ports, one on passenger side (that was not plugged when I got the truck home from the shop), and one in the rear at the base.

Pic 5: While taking these pictures I think I found the source of the severe hiss/sucking. I think this goes back to my trans vac modulator. Clearly self induced! Feeling pretty stupid I couldn't find that yesterday.


So reconnecting the hose eliminated the hiss and the motor is idling pretty well again. Still shows close to 12 advance at a nice idle around 700 rpm.

THANKS!

[dmjlambert]

Originally Posted by ncpetersc

...reconnecting the hose eliminated the hiss and the motor is idling pretty well again. Still shows close to 12 advance at a nice idle around 700 rpm.

THANKS!

OK so it is all better now? I don't tend to be very harsh on shops, I just don't return for more punishment. But that's me. If they described in detail what they were going to do, and then it is apparent they didn't do it, then that would be cause for me complaining. I like to find shade tree mechanics, like them much better than any shop. Shops have too much overhead and too many people there just clocking hours and thinking it's 5:00 somewhere...

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by dmjlambert

OK so it is all better now? I don't tend to be very harsh on shops, I just don't return for more punishment. But that's me. If they described in detail what they were going to do, and then it is apparent they didn't do it, then that would be cause for me complaining. I like to find shade tree mechanics, like them much better than any shop. Shops have too much overhead and too many people there just clocking hours and thinking it's 5:00 somewhere...

Yep. All better, can't believe I couldn't find that hose that I knocked off at some point. So basically running better than it has in a long while thanks to the help of everyone here. But it sounds like even though it's running good, I need to take care of this carb.

I'm leaning towards ordering one without core exchange, and maybe building up the courage to try to rebuild it at some point.

I could probably still find time to pull the current carb off this weekend and taking the top off if you guys think it might be something fixable with the float connection or position.

Given the opinions so far, I think I need to at least try to get my money back for the rebuild. It's becoming clear that I did not get what I paid for there. And that's pretty much it for the description of the work agreed to... "rebuild the carb".

Oh I tried to get the video up on you tube. Hope this works https://youtu.be/cP-af791wMk

And attaching a pic of the carb stamp #. 4MV I think, but 7042210 isn't showing up as a cross reference on the guaranteedcarb website. Hope it's the right one.

Thanks again to all of you!

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by dmjlambert

The hissing is probably it just drawing in air, which is is supposed to do. When the engine is warmed up, the smaller top choke plate should be fully open and the big one closed. If you cover it to block some of the air from going in, you are changing the air to fuel mixture. The mix should be set properly for good idle, and that is a carb adjustment. So, if you are covering the top of the carb or partially closing the choke plate and it runs better, that is because the engine is not warmed up yet, or the carb is set to run too lean or it is gunked up inside again already, or you have a vacuum leak somewhere that if you fixed it would richen the mixture. A vacuum leak can be around the edges of the carburetor where it mounts to the engine, or in a vacuum device that you have hooked up, or an unplugged vacuum port that you are not using. How many ports do you have on that carburetor, and are the unused ones plugged?

It makes a difference which port you use for the distributor. There is ported vacuum, which has no vacuum at idle, and manifold vacuum, which has vacuum at idle. If your distributor is connected to ported vacuum and then you change it to manifold vacuum port, it will idle faster and probably smoother. The factory put the distributor on ported vacuum to retard the timing and make it more fully burn the fuel when sitting at stop lights, to reduce pollution. Move it to a manifold vacuum port and see how it performs. You may need to turn down the idle speed after doing that.

Just found this article online (2nd post in the thread), very interesting read. It's got me believing that there is no good reason at all that it shouldn't be on manifold vacuum.

https://www.bangshift.com/forum/foru...vacuum-advance

[68 P.O.S.]

Originally Posted by ncpetersc

Just found this article online (2nd post in the thread), very interesting read. It's got me believing that there is no good reason at all that it shouldn't be on manifold vacuum.

That's a good read. Here's the magazine article that engineer, John Hinkley, did as well. Basically the same thing as your link. Also, here's the vacuum advance follow-up to it. All fantastic info

http://www.camaros.org/pdf/timing101.pdf
http://www.stl-vettes.com/65Vette/co...ng_Advance.pdf

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by 68 P.O.S.

That's a good read. Here's the magazine article that engineer, John Hinkley, did as well. Basically the same thing as your link. Also, here's the vacuum advance follow-up to it. All fantastic info

http://www.camaros.org/pdf/timing101.pdf
http://www.stl-vettes.com/65Vette/co...ng_Advance.pdf

Great stuff. Thanks!

[geezer#99]

I see fuel in your vid.
Definitely flooding.

When they did your carb, did they give you back the gaskets and parts they replaced. Most good shops do that.

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

I see fuel in your vid.
Definitely flooding.

When they did your carb, did they give you back the gaskets and parts they replaced. Most good shops do that.

Right. So no, of course they did not.

Grrrr... I hope get a refund.

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

I see fuel in your vid.
Definitely flooding.

When they did your carb, did they give you back the gaskets and parts they replaced. Most good shops do that.

A reputable shop will ask you up front if you want the old parts. Generally, people say no, because who wants an old oil filter or some such? But the shop should be able to show you the old parts. In this case, enough time has passed that the old parts (if actually removed) are long gone. This practice stems from days of yore when AAMCO transmissions used to fleece people on a regular basis. Anyone near my age (65) has probably seen where the fecal missiles hit the rotating blades that they got into, back in the late '60s to early '70s. They have probably cleaned up their act, but I've had family members that they tried to rip off, as well, back in the '70s.