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#76 |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
This is the diagram I'm using to troubleshoot.
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#77 |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
That's the NL2 option wiring for the 87-91 TBI trucks.
There's a two position Weatherpak with the wire from the B terminal of the six position Weatherpak on the valve. This plugs into the standard wiring harness. That's where I'd start looking for Mickey Mouse wiring. This all assumes that pouring five gallons in the LH tank will raise the needle on the gauge past 1/4 tank. Does it do that?
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#78 | |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
Quote:
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Rob - https://www.instagram.com/hart_rod_c10 As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17 FOR SALE: DBW pedal bracket - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=651123 FOR SALE: Hood Brackets http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=679945 1987 Silverado SWB - 34.5K original miles http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=801834 1969 SuperBurb - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=200387 1968 Farm truck - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=358692 1968 SWB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=551258 1948 Chevy - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=122164&page=3 |
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#79 |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
So the gauge is working.
It really sounds like the LH sender is tied directly to the gauge bypassing the sender switch in the valve.
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1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
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#80 | |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
Quote:
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Rob - https://www.instagram.com/hart_rod_c10 As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17 FOR SALE: DBW pedal bracket - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=651123 FOR SALE: Hood Brackets http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=679945 1987 Silverado SWB - 34.5K original miles http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=801834 1969 SuperBurb - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=200387 1968 Farm truck - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=358692 1968 SWB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=551258 1948 Chevy - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=122164&page=3 Last edited by Hart_Rod; 03-09-2020 at 12:30 PM. |
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#81 | |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
Quote:
Enjoy the truck it looks like a nice machine.
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#82 |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
This may have been asked, but I didn't see it anywhere. How do you know what tanks sizes came in our trucks?
SWB - both tanks 16 gallon capacity? LWB - both tanks 20 gallon capacity? Thanks in advance!
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#83 | |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
LWB could be either a 16 or 20 single tank. I've owned both.
I doubt SWB has the room for a 20 gallon tank. Not sure someone that went to the trouble of ordering NL2 and the 8' bed would order a pair of 16 gallon tanks. I doubt a dealer would order something odd like that for stock either. Honestly you can fit the 20gallon tank with the 16 gallon straps so if you have a LWB truck just get the 20 gallon tanks and have done with it. Quote:
The NL2 dual tank harness is an add-on to the production fuel system wiring that plugs right into the existing single tank sender/pump connection on the standard harness. Probably for ease of assembly and reducing the number of electrical harnesses to select on the line. This also would allow a dealership or customer to add it if desired but I doubt that was part of the GM thought process. Someone swapped the standard production fuel tank connector and the connector from the valve. Probably when doing service on the LH tank. I have several colors of 3M Super 33+ Electrical tape that I wrap on harness wrap ends with plugs that can be interchanged... to avoid the mistake you discovered. The LH fuel pump was running dead head to the valve when the RH tank was selected. That can't be safe. Not sure what mayhem you avoided by fixing this but it's all good now.
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1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
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#84 | |
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#85 | |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
Quote:
The most elegant way to do this would be to drive the relay coil exactly like the original setup. I'd find the original TBI ECM end of the fuel pump relay drive wire and attach it to the fuel pump drive on the LS PCM. This will offload any high current draws that might make the PCM fuel pump driver transistor unhappy. You should be able to buzz the original ECM Connector A Terminal 1 wire to the fuel pump relay terminal D to be sure you have the correct wire.
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1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
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#86 | |
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Dumb it down for me, which color wire do I need to splice into on the firewall relay harness to the LS fuel pump wire into to make it all work? The LS harness already has its own 40 amp relay with power just for the fuel pump. It's a single 12v power wire intended to wire directly to a single fuel pump. Thanks.
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#87 | |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
Quote:
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Rob - https://www.instagram.com/hart_rod_c10 As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17 FOR SALE: DBW pedal bracket - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=651123 FOR SALE: Hood Brackets http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=679945 1987 Silverado SWB - 34.5K original miles http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=801834 1969 SuperBurb - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=200387 1968 Farm truck - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=358692 1968 SWB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=551258 1948 Chevy - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=122164&page=3 Last edited by Hart_Rod; 04-04-2020 at 10:11 AM. |
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#88 |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
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#89 |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
Bypassing the relay is a bad idea.
It's a more reliable setup to use the 1987-91 fuel pump relay as it was originally setup by GM. Why? The relay isolates the PCM from the fuel pump power circuit. This keeps fuel pump wiring problems and fuel pump problems from smoking the fuel pump driver transistor in your PCM. When you let out the magic smoke you can't put it back. The original TBI ECM has two connectors. A & B. The individual terminals in each ECM connector are numbered. The fuel pump relay connector terminals are lettered A-F. As you can see in the above wiring diagram. Splice the LS fuel pump power wire to the TBI fuel pump power wire... according to the diagram above it's a Green with White stripe wire from the old ECM Connector A on Terminal position 1 to the relay plug terminal position D.
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#90 | |
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#91 | |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
Quote:
The GM fuel pump relay is a sealed unit with a sealed Metripak plug. The terminals are not likely corroded after 30+ years in service. And you can tie it in with one wire directly from the LS PCM. Your choice.
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1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD 1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD 1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD 1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD 1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD 1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD 2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500 2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263 2009 Impala SS LS4 V8 RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful. Last edited by hatzie; 03-25-2020 at 09:54 PM. |
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#92 | |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
Quote:
So I guess there is no need for the relay on the stand alone harness, just the fuel pump signal wire connected to the green w/white wire going into the stock TBI fuel pump relay on the firewall. Correct?
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#93 | |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
Quote:
Hatzie do you forsee any issues with the original tank wiring/setup handling the high amperage draw of the higher PSI pumps?
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Rob - https://www.instagram.com/hart_rod_c10 As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17 FOR SALE: DBW pedal bracket - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=651123 FOR SALE: Hood Brackets http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=679945 1987 Silverado SWB - 34.5K original miles http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=801834 1969 SuperBurb - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=200387 1968 Farm truck - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=358692 1968 SWB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=551258 1948 Chevy - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=122164&page=3 Last edited by Hart_Rod; 03-26-2020 at 08:02 AM. |
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#94 | ||
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
Quote:
O'Riley stocks them for cheap. Quote:
The wiring diagrams state the GM wiring is 0.8mm˛ (18AWG) The PCM controlled AD series alternators on the LS motors don't typically idle state charge at much more than 13vdc. They can climb to 14.5v if the PCM detects higher current draw but typically you'll see them run 13vdc out. 18ga stranded copper automotive wire will carry 18amps at 13vdc and a little more at 14.5vdc. That's a pretty healthy safety margin.
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#95 | |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
Quote:
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Rob - https://www.instagram.com/hart_rod_c10 As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17 FOR SALE: DBW pedal bracket - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=651123 FOR SALE: Hood Brackets http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=679945 1987 Silverado SWB - 34.5K original miles http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=801834 1969 SuperBurb - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=200387 1968 Farm truck - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=358692 1968 SWB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=551258 1948 Chevy - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=122164&page=3 Last edited by Hart_Rod; 04-04-2020 at 10:13 AM. |
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#96 |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
Almost done with my LS swap into my dually...
Will putting 12v accidentally on the wire going to the tank sender kill it? We weren't getting the fuel pump to kick on so ran a hot lead straight to the 2 wire connection, but my buddy touched the sender wire for a second instead of the pump wire. The pump works find, but the driver side tank isn't reading. Needle pegged on empty. The passenger side tank sender is working fine.
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#97 |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
Speaking of LS swaps, does an 85-86 C10 with factory dual tanks have the correct wiring to install an updated 65 psi valve or is it still required to get the whole harness/switch/valve kit?
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#98 | |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
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#99 |
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
I recently had my OEM Pollack valve completely fail to the point of requiring replacement. For decades it worked to the point of being passable. It really never had trouble switching to the left tank, switching to the right was finicky. When it did not switch completely, the gauge would over sweep clockwise and truck would starve for fuel. I would switch back and forth and to the point it finally read properly on the RH tank, the switch-over was full and complete. That process recently failed and neither tank would read properly but I could pull from the left, I just didn't know how much fuel in LH tank. Needless to say, time to change valve.
I went through and tested 9 or 10 valves I had with test on truck, wife inside, me underneath. One flat did nothing. All others you could clearly hear and feel the switching action. Most read properly on LH tank, RH tank gauge would over sweep clockwise. Only two passed the test 100%. It seems a comprehensive test requires fuel gauge feedback. Most valves fail for RH tank selection. All but one valve felt and sounded operable on simple bench test, even the one just removed, however, such valve will not uncover ports for RH tank. FYI
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#100 | ||
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Re: 1973-1991 Dual fuel tank systems theory of operation
Quote:
Either way I wouldn't put an old valve together with a higher than TBI pressure fuel pump. Quote:
I would probably exercise the valve to keep it happy. Fill up both tanks. Run one down to 1/2 and switch over. Fill the low tank before the runnig tank is down to 1/2 and don't switch back til the one you're operating out of is at 1/2. Then flip back and two that way so the valve doesn't have a chance to get gummy and stuck. On long trips you can run down to 3/8 switch and grab a fill when both are down. That way you have 1/2 tank of fuel between them so it's not urgent. I usually have to urgently go to the Mens room or get some caffeine before I need fuel.
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