47-55.1 Eliminate draft tube options

[dsraven]

a billet main bearing cap would be nice but would still need to be line bored so it lines up with the other main bearings correctly and has the correct crush to hold the bearing tight but not too tight. I suppose the machinist could set up and center the boring tool on the other main bearing bores and then simply finish the new bearing cap to the same diameter.
anyway, good idea to keep the engine in the frame till the dude shows up and sees what you have, he may have another idea that isn't so intense in the labour dept. that will give you time to clean up your shop floor, haha.
what I have used to clean the interior of engines , diffs and other castings while in place, and slowly dripping oil for days, is a garden sprayer filled with your choice of solvent. hang some plastic around the area so it doesn't get everywhere, cover the floor around the area, place a large catch pan, throw on a good respirator and glove up. I have a couple of these sprayers for different solvents and found that some have oil resistant internal parts, like the ones used by concrete workers for the sealer they use. some also have longer and more user friendly wands and spray ends that are awesome for axle tubes etc. anyway, I hate constantly hand pumping them so I drilled a hole near the top, so my fingers can get the valve stem parts inside and installed a metal tire valve stem so I can pressure it up to 10 psi with the shop air line and a regulator. works great. flushes any debris along with oil etc. some brake clean when done leaves a pretty dry surface that mostly stops dripping. a kiddie pool works great for those larger clean ups like this. I buy brake clean by the 5 gallon jug, (it lasts forever that way, I can share it with the family boys and is a lot more economical plus the hand sprayer actually uses less that the high pressure aerosol cans) and have a small hand pump sprayer with viton seals inside. it can be pressured up low to avoid overspray everywhere or high for whatever is needed. the nozzle allows variuos spray patterns as well. I have several of these for different uses and buy bulk solvents (like engine degreaser, light oil (wd40 equivalents etc) to save shop supply costs but also because the hand sprayer is a lot more variable in spray patterns and pressures than the aerosols.


https://bloomco.ca/products/2-gallon-pump-sprayer

https://www.bline.ca/bolt-in-valve-stems

https://www.amazon.ca/PRO-Pump-Spray...8313866e10cde6

[TX3100Guy]

Originally Posted by dsraven

a billet main bearing cap would be nice but would still need to be line bored so it lines up with the other main bearings correctly and has the correct crush to hold the bearing tight but not too tight. I suppose the machinist could set up and center the boring tool on the other main bearing bores and then simply finish the new bearing cap to the same diameter.
anyway, good idea to keep the engine in the frame till the dude shows up and sees what you have, he may have another idea that isn't so intense in the labour dept. that will give you time to clean up your shop floor, haha.
what I have used to clean the interior of engines , diffs and other castings while in place, and slowly dripping oil for days, is a garden sprayer filled with your choice of solvent. hang some plastic around the area so it doesn't get everywhere, cover the floor around the area, place a large catch pan, throw on a good respirator and glove up. I have a couple of these sprayers for different solvents and found that some have oil resistant internal parts, like the ones used by concrete workers for the sealer they use. some also have longer and more user friendly wands and spray ends that are awesome for axle tubes etc. anyway, I hate constantly hand pumping them so I drilled a hole near the top, so my fingers can get the valve stem parts inside and installed a metal tire valve stem so I can pressure it up to 10 psi with the shop air line and a regulator. works great. flushes any debris along with oil etc. some brake clean when done leaves a pretty dry surface that mostly stops dripping. a kiddie pool works great for those larger clean ups like this. I buy brake clean by the 5 gallon jug, (it lasts forever that way, I can share it with the family boys and is a lot more economical plus the hand sprayer actually uses less that the high pressure aerosol cans) and have a small hand pump sprayer with viton seals inside. it can be pressured up low to avoid overspray everywhere or high for whatever is needed. the nozzle allows variuos spray patterns as well. I have several of these for different uses and buy bulk solvents (like engine degreaser, light oil (wd40 equivalents etc) to save shop supply costs but also because the hand sprayer is a lot more variable in spray patterns and pressures than the aerosols.


https://bloomco.ca/products/2-gallon-pump-sprayer

https://www.bline.ca/bolt-in-valve-stems

https://www.amazon.ca/PRO-Pump-Spray...8313866e10cde6

Excellent info thank you. He did mention the need to line bore it. More to come after the holiday. Many thanks.

[dsraven]

line boring is really the only way to get the bores all stacked up actually in line. not saying they arent inline now, just saying if you get a new bearing cap it has to be fitted to the block so it is inline with the other bearings. in all the previous suggestions I was tryig to give an alternative but really, line boring is the correct way. that said, you may wanna ask about if they can redo just the front bearing main bearing bore after replacing the cap with a new bearing billet cap. not sure but I think some of the old inline 6's had all different sized bearing outside diameters so the line bore would be more expensive because the dude would need to set up on each bearing. some of the old engines also used a shim under the bearing cap to adjust clearances. dunno if that applies to your engine or not but maybe something to check out and ask the dude about when he comes to look.

[TX3100Guy]

Originally Posted by dsraven

line boring is really the only way to get the bores all stacked up actually in line. not saying they arent inline now, just saying if you get a new bearing cap it has to be fitted to the block so it is inline with the other bearings. in all the previous suggestions I was tryig to give an alternative but really, line boring is the correct way. that said, you may wanna ask about if they can redo just the front bearing main bearing bore after replacing the cap with a new bearing billet cap. not sure but I think some of the old inline 6's had all different sized bearing outside diameters so the line bore would be more expensive because the dude would need to set up on each bearing. some of the old engines also used a shim under the bearing cap to adjust clearances. dunno if that applies to your engine or not but maybe something to check out and ask the dude about when he comes to look.

Great info to have when he shows up after the New Year. Again, many thanks and Merry Christmas!

[dsraven]

Welcome

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

it snowed here finally. It's been warm and they thought we would have a brown Christmas. The

[TX3100Guy]

Ok folks, one question while I consider the fact that there is a good chance that this engine is coming out of the truck. I have reconciled it in my mind and have begun to make a list of "while I'm at it" tasks, mostly cleaning up and painting the block.

So the question is, I've lifted an engine out of a car before and even have an engine hoist and stand my good friend gave me when he sold me the truck (maybe he knew this would happen). There are good bolt holes on the exhaust/intake manifold of the engine to attach the hoist chains, where on the distributor side of the engine is a good place to attach?

Thanks
Bob

[dsraven]

Sorry I cant help as it's been a couple of years and stuff like that falls off the memory shelf as more stuff is added to the front side, loo. I usually look for a good sized hole as high up on the engine as possible so it doesnt try to flip over, keep it heavy on the bottom side. Also dont simply use a single chain and a slip hook or clevis so the chain can slide around. A single chain can be used but make it so where the host is connected it is unable to slide, otherwise as soon as the engine is lifted off the mount and comes free of the trans the heavy end of the engine will try to find the floor and the light end will find the engine hoist hook.

[TX3100Guy]

Today I bought a leveler that attaches to the hoist hook and it has four chains hanging from it to attach to the engine. Then the balance point can be adjusted to attempt to shift the center of balance accordingly.

[dsraven]

when I think back I remember using a couple of old head bolt holes with some home made lifting eyes welded on to the head of the bolt. then a chain between them to lift the engine with. these are pretty heavy engines so using the exhaust/intake bolts may end up breaking a bolt off because of the leverage applied due to the length of the bolt when the manifold is still on there and the engle it is being pulled at. the bolt is made to take strain lateral to the bolt, not at an angle. if you remove the maifolds and attach a lift bracket to a couple of the bolts maybe, because then the strain is placed across a couple of bolts instead of one and the length of the bolt would be shorter, but using a single bolt back there could end up in disaster. even if you know somebody with the shop manual, or can find one online, the manual would likely say "install kent moore tool number Jxxxx in location shown in figure Y" but not show the acftual tool or the actual locations. lol.
anyway, since the head will likely be comng off anyway, possibly remove a front right and a rear left head bolt, grab a cople of bolts like them only longer, make up an L bracket with a hole on each side of the L that will allow the bolt to slip through on one side of the L and a small clevis to slip through hole in the other side, and then attach the bracket to the engine with the "new" head bolts. that way the bolts are taking the strain like a bolt is designed to, from under the bolt head, and the engine leveller will span the distance between the two brackets and connect to the clevises on the L brackets.
dunno if that made sense but its as clear as mud in my head, haha.
I have a piece of an old jackall jack beam that I use for an engine leveller. if is pretty strong and has all those holes in the web of the beam. I can place a clevis on each end that connects via chain to the engine, and then another clevis where it needs to be in the middle somewhere to level the engine when lifted. its a poor man's engine leveller that I made up from scrap before I knew about the fancy pants engine levellers (that work better).
I did a quick search and found this
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-hoist.776413/
I also have some home mades of these
https://www.amazon.ca/OTC-7100-Lifti...cd4328c79d0710

if your engine leveller looks like this you already have the L brackets I was mentioning and could connect them to the "new" head bolts. you don't wanna chance dropping the engine at this point.
https://www.amazon.ca/2000LBS-OKSTEN...7190ca32054677

[dsraven]

I suppose if you removed the thermostat housing a bracket could be made to use those two bolt holes to connect the front of the engine.
just found this showing the head bolt attachments with an engine leveller.
https://www.trifive.com/threads/engi...chment.232546/

hope that helps

[TX3100Guy]

Originally Posted by dsraven

when I think back I remember using a couple of old head bolt holes with some home made lifting eyes welded on to the head of the bolt. then a chain between them to lift the engine with. these are pretty heavy engines so using the exhaust/intake bolts may end up breaking a bolt off because of the leverage applied due to the length of the bolt when the manifold is still on there and the engle it is being pulled at. the bolt is made to take strain lateral to the bolt, not at an angle. if you remove the maifolds and attach a lift bracket to a couple of the bolts maybe, because then the strain is placed across a couple of bolts instead of one and the length of the bolt would be shorter, but using a single bolt back there could end up in disaster. even if you know somebody with the shop manual, or can find one online, the manual would likely say "install kent moore tool number Jxxxx in location shown in figure Y" but not show the acftual tool or the actual locations. lol.
anyway, since the head will likely be comng off anyway, possibly remove a front right and a rear left head bolt, grab a cople of bolts like them only longer, make up an L bracket with a hole on each side of the L that will allow the bolt to slip through on one side of the L and a small clevis to slip through hole in the other side, and then attach the bracket to the engine with the "new" head bolts. that way the bolts are taking the strain like a bolt is designed to, from under the bolt head, and the engine leveller will span the distance between the two brackets and connect to the clevises on the L brackets.
dunno if that made sense but its as clear as mud in my head, haha.
I have a piece of an old jackall jack beam that I use for an engine leveller. if is pretty strong and has all those holes in the web of the beam. I can place a clevis on each end that connects via chain to the engine, and then another clevis where it needs to be in the middle somewhere to level the engine when lifted. its a poor man's engine leveller that I made up from scrap before I knew about the fancy pants engine levellers (that work better).
I did a quick search and found this
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-hoist.776413/
I also have some home mades of these
https://www.amazon.ca/OTC-7100-Lifti...cd4328c79d0710

if your engine leveller looks like this you already have the L brackets I was mentioning and could connect them to the "new" head bolts. you don't wanna chance dropping the engine at this point.
https://www.amazon.ca/2000LBS-OKSTEN...7190ca32054677

My plan is to remove all the accessories (intake and exhaust manifold), starter, magneto, wires, and plugs) possibly water pump and thermostat (if painting the block). I have already removed the radiator and core support, currently the drivers side inner and out fender are off, my plan is take the other side off too. It wasn't in my new plan to remove the head, but I'll see what Ernie wants me to do.

I have a leveler like the one you showed from Amazon and it has the L-shaped brackets attached to the chain.

I liked the photo showing the engine attachment points front and back, that looks workable, but again I'm likely to wait on pulling the engine until my new friend gets here.

Again, thanks for the photos, info, and advice. Bob

[geezer#99]

I’ve used lifting straps/slings like this for awkward lifts.


https://superslings.ca/products/2-pl...SABEgIkm_D_BwE

Ratchet straps might work better.


https://www.amazon.ca/STANLEY-S1007-...207a39831&th=1

[leegreen]

I have a 3/4 poly or nylon rope I keep for lifting engines without lifting points, outboards, truck beds and such. Even a single strand is plenty strong enough for a 600 pound engine. By the time you have gone under the crank pully, between engine and trans/flywheel for 4 lifting strands you have a large safety factor. The stuff I have is from a marine place, more durable than the typical hardware store yellow poly. You could use lighter rope, just use more. Pad any sharp corners with rags. Use lighter rope around the head horizontally to secure the lift ropes fore and aft, you could also tie off to the manifold bolts. Find the balance point and mouse the hook (tie ropes securely to each other just under hook). for a tall narrow six I'd also tie the ropes together just above the head so the engine could not roll over in the rope sling. you should end up with a secure web of rope that is not going anywhere

lifting with rope vs chain: chain is harder to inspect for flaws and more prone to sudden failure. Rope is subject to fraying at sharp corners under strain

Lifting with chain and prepared lift points you can use an engine leveler. dsraven's idea of using a farm jack beam as lift beam could also be used with ropes tying it to engine

[TX3100Guy]

And the beat goes on.......

[dsraven]

well, now you done it.
it will be lighter and easier to handle with parts missing, lol.
are you gonna wait and see what your new friend says before you pull more off?
if it comes down to it and some machining will be done, I would imagine the machinist will want the pistons/rods out of the way so the head will need to come off, crank, cam and lifters out etc. if that is the case, and you are the engine guy, remove the head bolts in the same order you would do it if you were torquing up the head bolts. that can help eliminate the head warping. use some short lengths of rubber hose over the con rod bolts so as not to damage the crank if they rattle past a journal on their way out.you might as well get ready by making a few fixtures to keep everything in order. I use a length of 2x2 or 2x4 with some large holes drill into it for holding the lifters. mark the front with a screw, or something other than a felt marker, as the oil will make that go away or at least hard to read. smooth the edges etc so no sawdust gets in the engine on assembly. something to hold the pushrods as well, same deal with marking them to keep in order front to rear. some will say it doesn't matter for pushrods but hey, why not, they have wear surfaces like anything else so might as well keep the mating parts together, top to top, bottom to bottom. a box with dividers, like a tough version of a wine box has, works well for pistons to sit into. make sure to mark the orientation of the pistons (if not already, it was rebuilt so they should be marked) and keep the rod bearing caps matched to their rods and also their orientation to the rod (the divets in the ends of the rod bearings are on the same side), these should also have marks from the rebuilder. an old coffee can with some small holes punched into the bottom works well for holding all the bolts. I usually have a bucket for top end bolts and one for bottom end bolts. make sure the holes are smaller than the smallest bolt so nothing falls through, I use a small nail but a drill also works if you have the time. spray the bucket parts with your cleaner of choice, use a parts washing brush, paint brush or whatever to agitate and remove oil or other dirt, allow to sit for awhile, then spray off and dry. I usually use hot water and then blow dry as good as possible while still in the can, then spray liberally with wd40 to stop corrosion. a larger bucket of cleaner can be used to submerge the smaller bucket of parts for soaking.
make sure to be very careful with any engine bearing as cleaners can react with the bearing material. dish or laundry soap is a go-to for a lot of home rebuild guys. mark the bearings top and bottom on the back side or place them in a holder that is marker, like an egg crate, so the related parts can be cleaned properly before assembly. the bearing shell and the con rod/cap or engine block/cap need to be properly cleaned because a small particle makes a dent in the shell and then.....not good.
for buffing up the gasket surfaces the roloc style surface conditioning discs work well
https://www.amazon.ca/Scotch-Brite-0.../dp/B0002STR8Q
if pulling the engine and leaving the trans in the truck beware that the torque tube/rear of trans needs to be supported so it doesn't drop and cause damage to itself.
take pics before you dissassemble so when it is assembly time you can "remember" how things were

[dsraven]

a tray like this could be made out of wood you may have laying around. less holes would be needed because the head wouldn't be coming apart. a hole for the lifter and the corresponding pushrod, marked for front. when removing the rocker shaft put a wrap of wire on the front end for marking.
diesel fuel works pretty well for a cleaner and also lubricates if not washed off. garden sprayer works well for pressurizing a stream to wash out oil galleries etc.

[TX3100Guy]

1) I'm a very impatient kind of guy. After talking to a buddy that has swapped more engines than I have owned cars, he feel certain that for a new end cap to be properly fitted the engine is coming out no matter what.

2) great idea on using a piece of wood to hold the lifters and the push rods, I'll get on that this weekend (oops almost forgot that its our wedding anniversary this weekend)

3) this truck doesn't have a torque tube. Since the previous owner had installed a 4-speed from a 1967 Camaro, it has a typical drive shaft, in fact the drive shaft is new since I had to center the rear axle (he never got around to doing that). Once centered, the old drive shaft was 1 1/2 inches too short. I had a local old fashioned drive shaft shop build me a new one. In fact, I've already removed it.

4) This truck has a custom, hand made/machined) shifter mechanism due to the different transmission and bell housing. I'm going to attempt to remove the trans before pulling the engine.

5) Photos have already begun and all bolts, etc have been bagged and labeled.

[dsraven]

anniversary trumps everything, unless you LIKE sleeping with the dog. haha.

[TX3100Guy]

Today was a short work day since its our wedding anniversary 238 years (that's in dog years...LOL).

Had to lift the newly installed carpet, lift the transmission floor section and then removed the hand made shifter mechanism that the previous owner crafted, interesting piece of kit. (photo below)



Then pulled the GM 4-speed transmission, it was like wrestling a greased pig. If it were 1/4 longer it would still be in the truck.



I have a question on the lifter gallery. Should the oil tubing be this bent? Can I buy a replacement? What is it called?

[dsraven]

Oil tube was likely mis-shaped during an engine teardown. If it isn't kinked or flattened just use it again.

[TX3100Guy]

Originally Posted by dsraven

Oil tube was likely mis-shaped during an engine teardown. If it isn't kinked or flattened just use it again.

The reason I asked is there are a couple of flat spots and kinks. Hard to see on this photo, but the line look like copper/nickle brake line.

[geezer#99]

Not a hand made shifter. It’s called a t&f shifter. No longer made though. Link below.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=627968

Tip for you when removing or replacing transmissions. Leave it in 1st gear or reverse. That way you can easily turn the input shaft if needed for spline lie up.

[TX3100Guy]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Not a hand made shifter. It’s called a t&f shifter. No longer made though. Link below.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=627968

Tip for you when removing or replacing transmissions. Leave it in 1st gear or reverse. That way you can easily turn the input shaft if needed for spline lie up.

That is awesome. Thanks for the history, good to know.

[dsraven]

the line would be pretty easy to duplicate if it were taken off. thats if you have a tubing bender and a flaring tool. not likely you will find a new line with the correct fittings alredy on the tube. you could have one made for you at a hydraulic shop pretty cheap as well. it just needs to span from point A to B and clear the pushrods and lifter cover plate

[TX3100Guy]

Originally Posted by dsraven

the line would be pretty easy to duplicate if it were taken off. thats if you have a tubing bender and a flaring tool. not likely you will find a new line with the correct fittings alredy on the tube. you could have one made for you at a hydraulic shop pretty cheap as well. it just needs to span from point A to B and clear the pushrods and lifter cover plate

I was thinking that it looks a lot like a brake line. I have a tubing bender and flaring tool, it just depends on what type of flare and what threads the ends are. I guess I'll figure that out when I take it out to inspect.