1974 C20 Soon to become a project...

[Super_Dave]

BABA YAGA! got some new shoes and socks today!

I pulled the trigger on the wheels and tires. We put 255/50/20's on the front and squeezed 305/50/20's on the rear. The stance is really level and is growing on me slowly. However, If I want to drop the front 2.5-3" with spindles, I will have to roll the inner lip on the rear wheel well to drop the back. Just couldn't bring myself to back off to 295/50/20's... wanted the full 12"! Go big or go home! Didn't want any regrets later on.

I will be waiting for a while to make the final decision. Right now I am enjoying the smoother ride improved look.

[Super_Dave]

BABA YAGA! has a new trans in his future. The 700r4 was in tear-down yesterday.

Today it was tanked and new parts were being installed in the afternoon. Might even be looking at an install by Thursday or Friday.

More photos of the process to come later... I forgot my camera today :/

[midnight rambler]

Moving along looks good

[Super_Dave]

Ordering the AAW 73-87 classic truck harness today, along with the New Vintage USA gauge cluster. My racing buddy's shop will do the install in a couple of weeks.

Down the road, I will be hydro-dipping the gauge bezel in a CF pattern to match the background of the gauges. Should look real nice together.

[Super_Dave]

Just bought this 700r4 Indicator for the column. Should be a direct fit.

[Super_Dave]

The 700r4 is buttoned up (have some in-progress photos from the shop on a phone and have not gotten them downloaded yet...).

It's going in this afternoon. If the shake-down doesn't find anything, I should be have it back by end of the day.

Rebuilding the core was spread out over a two day period while working on other cars and waiting for parts. Install will spread over a two day period at the most, in the same manner... saving $1500-$1800 over what the other 'specialty' shop was going to charge and in half the time.

[Super_Dave]

Since I am not going to be ready for the local show in June, I have decided to take a different approach to the body and paint.

I am going to pull and replace all the parts that will be less costly than having a shop do the body work...

1. core support,
2. passenger inner fender (drivers too since I am getting free shipping),
3. both front fenders (could be easily fixed but with free shipping offsetting the bodyshop costs, I might as well make it easy and less costly),
4. battery tray / support,
5. possibly one bed side that has a couple of dents on the belt line and a small one under the taillight.

I am also going to replace the tailgate again, for a smooth one with the latch handle on the inside.

That will leave only the inner rockers and a small area under the kick panels. The rest of their work will be welding the trim holes nd smoothing out the body and bed.

I have all the trim removed. Some is still really nice, some is good, some is fair and some... well, what comes after that No trim will not be going back on the truck. Instead, I will be using a two toned paint scheme and pin stripes to dress it up.

I have decided not to use any trim. Dirt, water, etc. gets trapped and the paint and body goes sideways, especially when you don't have room in the garage for an extended period of time.

[LT7A]

You've come a long way in a short time. Like the truck a lot. So much, that if you asked me, it's hard to improve on the original paint scheme, but that wasn't one of the voting options, ha! Good luck man.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by LT7A

You've come a long way in a short time. Like the truck a lot. So much, that if you asked me, it's hard to improve on the original paint scheme, but that wasn't one of the voting options, ha! Good luck man.

Thanks.

I have not settled on the final paint scheme yet. I do know I am about 99% sure that new moldings are not in the plan. It has to be in keeping with the BABA YAGA! concept from John Wick...

I am drawing up the plans to mill BABA YAGA! from billet to replace the side emblems and dash emblem... and most likely one for the smooth tailgate that's replacing the blue one. We will be making them in our shop.

I am also leaning very strongly toward sidelining the Edelbrock 650 in favor of an Howell EFI setup for overall better reliability, cold starts, performance and increase in fuel efficiency... to go along with the 700r4.

[chrapladm]

Looking god so far. Any chance for a side picture of the truck in the afternoon sun?

Just curious to see how these wheels and tires look. Was thinking 20 22 F/R or possibly 22/24.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by chrapladm

Looking god so far. Any chance for a side picture of the truck in the afternoon sun?

Just curious to see how these wheels and tires look. Was thinking 20 22 F/R or possibly 22/24.

The truck is down for the count until I get the wiring harness installed. Hope to be back up and running in a couple of weeks or so. Will take more photos then and update.

[midnight rambler]

dave hows the wiring install going ? did you get the headlight bezels I like that look better to. might have to steal your idea.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by midnight rambler

dave hows the wiring install going ? did you get the headlight bezels I like that look better to. might have to steal your idea.

The harness should arrive any day. The New Vintage gauge cluster should arrive as well. I suspect we will start the install next week.

The headlight bezels are on the wish list waiting for purchase. I need to focus funds on getting the wiring all done and then getting the truck back to the transmission shop to dial in the up and down shift points.

The "mystery oil leak" looks to be a bad power steering pump... so a new one is on it's way from Summit.

I anticipate having BABA YAGA! back in the driveway in about two-three weeks where I can start replacing the sheet metal and other stuff I can do without offending the HOA. I really need to get the "temporary" can-o-pee off the bed and give it away, then take another look at BABA YAGA! with the new wheels and tires to decide if I still want to drop it or leave it as is... A nice hard cap will take the place of the can-o-pee.

[Super_Dave]

I got the new 700r4 shift indicator off Ebay (crappy photo but I am too lazy to retake it...). It wasn't listed as an import but it is from Taiwan. It looks real nice and was packaged very professionally. I will have to compare it to the old unit when I remove it, to see how it compares robust wise. It does feel a bit on the fragile side... hut I have never held an OEM unit, so I really don't know for sure - or how much stress an indicator actually incurs, and where (other than the cable and spring) when in operation.

[midnight rambler]

picking away at it ..I like where your going with it.

[Super_Dave]

Summit just arrived: (and yes, it the sun does shine in Oregon)

1. AAW Wiring Harness
2. New Vintage Speedometer Sending Unit for the 700r4
3. Summit Power Steering Pump

I have high expectations for the New Vintage gauge cluster I ordered... however, the Detroit company is a bit challenged on deliveries. I called the company and it took days to get a returned call. After answering my questions, I asked how long before they would ship the cluster, since it's not an inventory item at Summit. I was told they would ship 2-3 days after getting the order form Summit.

The order was placed on 5/9 and I have the Summit products, however, the New Vintage gauges cluster is slated to ship on 5/23??? Makes getting the dash harness wired in next week a bit of a challenge. I think I would look into whatever it would take to distribute a $700 set of gauges in a more efficient manner if it were my company, especially if Summit was one of my main distribution channels... just say'in.

[Super_Dave]

I just cancelled the order for the New Vintage gauge cluster. I have too many pieces in motion to have one vendor blow smoke up my pant leg and bring everything to a screeching halt.

I can't run their business, all I can do is vote with my pocket book and I just did... to the tune of $700.

[UKNOWME]

I've been considering using their gauges too but I think I've talked myself into the Dakota Digital VHX gauges

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by UKNOWME

I've been considering using their gauges too but I think I've talked myself into the Dakota Digital VHX gauges

Yeah, for the additional $100 it's worth getting an in-stock item from a proven company geared to meet demand.

Just wondering, does anyone make an OEM style Volt Meter gauge for the Squares instead of the AMP Meter? I would consider building a new analog Tachometer cluster if I could install an OEM style Volt gauge instead of AMPs...

[chrapladm]

Wow sorry to hear about your experience. BUT very glad you informed us. I am still a ways off from starting my project but most of the stuff your doing I will also be doing.

[funkatation]

I absolutely love my Dakota digital gauges. I haven't looked closely at those before, but I love the expandability of the DD system. I currently have the GSS (gear selector) and fan controller boxes. Their instructions were awesome too.

[CHIZZLER]

Great project. Maybe see you at the local show in a couple weeks. I will have my 40 pick up there.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by CHIZZLER

Great project. Maybe see you at the local show in a couple weeks. I will have my 40 pick up there.

That was my goal back in March before nearly severing a finger followed by a smoking wiring harness that put an end to that.

I will be falling head long into the rewiring next week, and since I need to run the wiring inside the fenders, now is the time to tear the front end off and pull wires, replace cancerous inner fenders, core support, battery box... R&R all the rubber mounts... plus keep my customers happy on the spur of the moment.

As a one man show without a shop, I had to coordinate with my carb guru on Cipole Road, to use his assistance and shop space. If I am real lucky, I might be a roller again in 2-3 weeks.

I will look for you in June. We never connected on the shop tour a year or more ago. Amazing what you can do when you have some room to work!

[Super_Dave]

Well... After several unfruitful hours trying to get the NVU 'In-Direct Fit Gauge Cluster' to fit on the back of my new OEM Dash Bezel, I have come to the conclusion that it isn't going to do the job as advertised. PLUS... given that the gauges were packaged so poorly and the Tachometer bezel was nicked and scratched, I don't have any recourse but to return the $900 set to Summit for a refund. I think NVU had a good idea but more effort should have been spent refining the concept and ensuring repeatable accuracy. It would not have take much, and perhaps they will one day come to this conclusion.

Issues:

The replacement rear housing on the NVU gauge cluster is laser cut and then heat formed to simulate the angle for the four system gauges. This is a hit or miss proposition at best, as you are at the mercy of the shop monkeys ability to heat the material in the same place and bend it to the same angle EVERY time. These are clearly not done on any jigs to control accuracy. NVU's response to poor QC and production techniques, is to tell you that you might have to re- heat and re-bend your $900 cluster to fit; something that should have been fully disclosed on their website and isn't... UNACCEPTABLE.

The large Speedometer and Tachometer gauge holes in the NVU replacement housing is laser cut to accept the gauges. As noted in a previous post and accompanying photos, their secure ring is actually an injection moulded part with random length legs that were cut from the injection with Dykes; requiring every leg to be re-cut and filed to the same length. For a $900 cluster this is... UNACCEPTABLE.

The large Speedometer and Tachometer gauge holes in the NVU replacement housing were not cut on the correct center to center dimension. Either the Tachometer fits over the back of the dash bezel or the Speedometer fits over the back, but NOT BOTH at the same time. The holes were laser cut 1/6"+ off center and there is nothing you can do to correct it except spend an inordinate amount of time filing and grinding one of the large gauge holes to line up with the back of the Dash Bezel. For a $900 cluster this is... UNACCEPTABLE.

The small system gauges have their own issues.
On the back of the Dash Bezel, the system gauge housings have a slight inward rounded crown on the lip; in other words, the lip is not flat.
The inner diameter of the NVU gauge bezels are too small to fit 'over' the housing lip and outer diameter is too large to fit 'inside' the housing lip. What ends up happening, is the gauges 'skate' around on the back of the housing without a hint of positive engagement. For a $900 cluster this is... UNACCEPTABLE.

When it's all said and done, all these issues; from extremely poor packing to poor manufacturing QC and extremely poor fit, this $900 gauge cluster is on it's way back.

Perhaps others have had great, resounding success and enjoy their $900 purchase. I have not and will not be entertaining any future purchases from NVU.

[Super_Dave]

Before sending the NVU Gauge Cluster back, I took the weekend to do a proof of concept.

In another thread, I discussed the option of a Front Install Gauge Cluster using the OEM Dash Bezel. I had taken some rudimentary preliminary measurements and determined that it should be feasible with certain size gauges.

Over the weekend, I took a Dremel to the OEM Dash Bezel. I knew there were some specific peculiarities to the bezel. Some could be compensated for and others would have to be lived with. The goal was to see if both were acceptable.

Peculiarities:

System Gauges

1. The top row are inset deeper than the bottom row by about .25".
2. They have a raised silver ring inside the recess that has to be dealt with if the gauge bezel doesn't cover it.
3. They have a cone shaped housing on the back that needs to be removed so the gauge lock ring can sit flush.
4. They needed to have the inner silver rings removed as the gauge bezel would not cover the ring.
5. The recesses needed something to fill in behind the gauge bezel once the inner ring was removed, as the gauge would fall all the way through.
6. The recess walls are flared on the left and 90° walls on the right.

Speedometer-Tachometer

1. They have all the same issues as the system gauges plus their front side bezel bases are oval, where as the system gauge bezel bases are not.
2. Also they do not have the same flare issues as the system gauges, making the main Dash Bezel face area essentially flat.

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Given these parameters, I set about cutting into the OEM Bezel.

1. I cut away the tapered backs of the system gauges.
2. I sanded the areas flat with a ROS.
3. I milled away the inner silver ring area, leaving about .125-.1875" flat land area.
4. I laser cut trim rings to slide over the back of the gauges, so they would not fall through the new holes.
5. I laser cut trim rings to slide over the back of the gauges, creating a base for the lock rings to tighten against.
6. I cut away the back of Speedometer and Tachometer housings, leaving the flat area intact.
7. I milled away the inner silver ring area, leaving about .125-.1875" flat land area.
8. I laser cut oval trim rings and slid them over the speedometer and tachometer and put them in the new holes.
9. I laser cut trim rings to slide over the back of the gauges, creating a base for the lock ring legs to tighten against.

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What I learned

1. It is possible to mount attractive gauges from the front of the OEM Dash Bezel.
2. If you take your time when trimming away the silver center rings on the OEM Dash Bezel, you will not gouge it like I did in a couple places. Using a Dremel with a .125" End Mill is not the tool of choice...
3. The front trim rings, used to keep the gauges from falling through and to conceal your cut, are better off milled from aluminum so it will not flex when tightening the locking rings on the back. The back trim rings can be anything that will stand up over time and not crack or deteriorate.
4. The black front trim rings were cut from black two ply acrylic (what I had on hand and not what I would use for a permanent install) which had a white back. The white shows up in the photos. Using a solid color material, or painted/powder coated aluminum front trim rings eliminates this issue.
5. There are a number of custom gauge companies and some will sell just the gauges and not lock you into a lot of questionable "direct fit" parts you don't need. Some, like Speedhut, use 1" deep gauges and have adopted the locking ring attachment concept on all the gauges, not just the 2.0625" system gauges. I would find this preferable to the NVU "legs" on their larger gauges.
6. The 2.0625" system gauges are the one's to use and the Speedometer and Tachometer need to be in the 4.75" diameter range measured at the front bezel. A smaller 3.375" diameter Speedometer and Tachometer could be used, you just need to adjust the width of your front trim ring.

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Assumptions still not proven

Since my project dash is still in the truck awaiting a stall to open up for the wiring harness install, I cannot prove the assumption that the OEM back housing will still fit on the back of the dash bezel.

If the back housing does fit, and the available 1" deep gauges lead me to believe it will, then you can retain your gear selection indicator and turn signal locations and hardware. If, for whatever reason, the back housing does not fit, and you want to retain the OEM gear selection indicator and turn signal functionality, you will need to modify the OEM back housing as need to accomplish the task.