86 Silverado Father and Son project

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by neto

Man I just read this whole thread. What great help from rfmaster and cableguy0. I hope to be doing same swap but onto a 66. Thanks for all the information.

Your right on the money! these guys are the best and they know their stuff too. With all their help.........

We were able to finally drive the truck today. Found a lot of little gremilins to take care of. Had a coolant leak and was low on tranny fluid still. The driver side front tire had a broken valve stem. and the rest of the tires leak a little too. After I felt it was safe to drive I took out on the road with my son. He even drove for his first time. The tranny shifts good and the truck has a lot of power. It has a couple of bad tires that vibrate bad so we never really got it up over about 50. I still need to finish the park neutral swith circuit and the aldl and few minor wiring issues in the cab. I hope to get some video of it running.

Now, I'm wondering if anyone has done a similar swap and used a later model cluster to run the speedo off of a signal from the ecm? I really would like to do this without having to purchase a new gear drive and vss for the tranny.
Hope to get more pics soon.


Mike

[glock35ipsc]

I would think the speedo (and cluster) from a 90-91 Suburban, Blazer or dually would work. I used a 90 Blazer cluster on my truck, and only had to run one wire from the 5.3L's PCM to the speedo.

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by glock35ipsc

I would think the speedo (and cluster) from a 90-91 Suburban, Blazer or dually would work. I used a 90 Blazer cluster on my truck, and only had to run one wire from the 5.3L's PCM to the speedo.

I assume this is still working good since you have driven Fred for a few weeks now? I am going to try to get to pull a part this weekend to find a cluster and maybe a seat for the truck.

Update: Well, there really isn't a real update since deer season is in full swing right now. My son and I have and will be spending most weekends in the woods from now till December. Anyway, I had the camera outside yesterday and made a little vid. I think we have a vacuum leak, it seems like the idle is noticeably fast in the video. It's not really noticeable when sitting in the driver seat. Notice the high tech temp. SES light. Watch here:

1986Chevy.flv video by mcbassin - Photobucket

[TheSebring]

Pretty slick swap. Lots of good tech info and detailed pictures and overall nice truck. Good job.

[rfmaster]

Originally Posted by mcbassin

I assume this is still working good since you have driven Fred for a few weeks now? I am going to try to get to pull a part this weekend to find a cluster and maybe a seat for the truck.

Update: Well, there really isn't a real update since deer season is in full swing right now. My son and I have and will be spending most weekends in the woods from now till December. Anyway, I had the camera outside yesterday and made a little vid. I think we have a vacuum leak, it seems like the idle is noticeably fast in the video. It's not really noticeable when sitting in the driver seat. Notice the high tech temp. SES light. Watch here:

Sweet - I like the size of that SES - can not miss it. With XMAS coming up can we hope for a red or green jumbo LED???? Just kidding.
Have you had a chance to address AC controls and wiring????
//RF

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by TheSebring

Pretty slick swap. Lots of good tech info and detailed pictures and overall nice truck. Good job.

Thanks we still have a long way to go.


RF,
I haven't touched the wiring for the a/c yet. I was hoping to wire the new compressor like the old one was. Of course, I don't know if it will work right if I do this? I did leave all the wiring from the donor including the relay.

[cableguy0]

the ac should be pretty straight forward. so long as the clutch engages and cycles properly off of the pressure switch. the diagrams i sent should show all that. I would stay away from trying to use the wiring from the car because the ac heater setup from that wagon is a pita.

[utvaquero59]

Too bad I didn't catch this thread earlier. I am doing an almost identical swap into my '71. And, we're about to the same stage. Mine's driveable but the wiring isn't 100% done. There's one difference I'm glad of, though: my donor was a '92 Caprice cop car so my VSS has both the electric and mechanical sending units at the transmission. I can hook up a speedo cable to my factory speedo but I'm installing a full set of Autometer gauges in my dash so I'll be going with an Autometer electric speedo when I get to that point.

Right now, my biggest hurdles are: TCC wired into my brake switch, ALDL/SES wiring and the gauges, which are important but sort of separate from the swap itself.

Don't know if it's the right thing to do or not, but I just left the A.I.R. pump installed in the serpentine setup with nothing connected to it. I'm running headers so hooking up the lines was out of the question, anyway.

I'm running a carb-style air filter with the IAT temperature sensor mounted to the base plate. I had to use a 1" spacer on top of the TBI spacer for clearance of the coil but I have no issues with the wiring since it still uses the factory spacer underneath the aftermarket one.

I also used the factory wiring harness. I de-loomed everything and spent many hours (I'm no EE but wish I was!) isolating and removing circuits I didn't want/need. That hardened gel GM used at the bulkhead connector was a particular PITA. I used a heat gun to soften it and scraped it all off with a utility knife. As I recall, the circuits/sensors I left in place were: O2 sensor, CTS, knock sensor, IAC, IAT, TPS, oil pressure, TCC, VSS and A/C.

I called up Brian at tbichips.com and had him custom burn me a chip for my 6965 (the same ECM you've got). I told him exactly what I was keeping and eliminating (smog stuff, mostly) and he burned me a chip with a little hotter than stock specs but I already had "cop car," specs to begin with so he cautioned me it wouldn't be a huge performance gain. But, then again, even the 9C1 police optioned Caprices were only factory rated at 205 hp!

I re-loomed everything I had left with a Summit wire loom kit (pretty cheap and looks great) then fabbed my own (probably not weatherproof) bulkhead seal. When I'm all finished, I'll probably silicone over the wires passing through the bulkhead.


So, if you don't mind since you seem to have expert advise, I'd like to ask what is the function of the VSS module located in the dash cluster in about the center of the Caprice? That's something I didn't realize was there until after I'd gotten rid of the car and one of the wires coming off the VSS is supposed to connect to it. Did it have anything to do with cruise control? Does it serve an important function and do I need to go source one from a JY or can I eliminate that wire? As I recall, there were 3 wires coming off that VSS and the other two are connected to their proper places.

Finally, my old fuse panel only has about 8 or 9 glass fuses and one spade terminal for an unfused ignition hot source. Oh, and one or two spade terminals for constant battery power. I've already wired 3 different EFI-related circuits (with correct-amperage in-line fuses) to these terminals and I still have a couple more circuits that require ignition-hot voltage. Is there a clean way to build a separate fuse panel or buss bar that provides ignition-hot voltage? Maybe a supplemental fuse panel or something? I've checked vendors who specialize in hot rod electrical and haven't found what I'm looking for.

[cableguy0]

you could always steal a underhood fuse/relay center from a never car. just hook up all the injection related stuff through that. In all reality it would probably be a better idea to upgrade the whole truck harness. Something like an 18 circuit painless fuse block would be perfect. would make things a ton cleaner and a lot more reliable than the crappy glass fuses. You already have a high amp alternator thanks to the caprice so your straight on that end but the factory fuse block and harness is a joke when it comes to using modern stuff

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by utvaquero59

Too bad I didn't catch this thread earlier. I am doing an almost identical swap into my '71. And, we're about to the same stage. Mine's driveable but the wiring isn't 100% done. There's one difference I'm glad of, though: my donor was a '92 Caprice cop car so my VSS has both the electric and mechanical sending units at the transmission. I can hook up a speedo cable to my factory speedo but I'm installing a full set of Autometer gauges in my dash so I'll be going with an Autometer electric speedo when I get to that point.

Right now, my biggest hurdles are: TCC wired into my brake switch, ALDL/SES wiring and the gauges, which are important but sort of separate from the swap itself.

Don't know if it's the right thing to do or not, but I just left the A.I.R. pump installed in the serpentine setup with nothing connected to it. I'm running headers so hooking up the lines was out of the question, anyway.

I'm running a carb-style air filter with the IAT temperature sensor mounted to the base plate. I had to use a 1" spacer on top of the TBI spacer for clearance of the coil but I have no issues with the wiring since it still uses the factory spacer underneath the aftermarket one.

I also used the factory wiring harness. I de-loomed everything and spent many hours (I'm no EE but wish I was!) isolating and removing circuits I didn't want/need. That hardened gel GM used at the bulkhead connector was a particular PITA. I used a heat gun to soften it and scraped it all off with a utility knife. As I recall, the circuits/sensors I left in place were: O2 sensor, CTS, knock sensor, IAC, IAT, TPS, oil pressure, TCC, VSS and A/C.

I called up Brian at tbichips.com and had him custom burn me a chip for my 6965 (the same ECM you've got). I told him exactly what I was keeping and eliminating (smog stuff, mostly) and he burned me a chip with a little hotter than stock specs but I already had "cop car," specs to begin with so he cautioned me it wouldn't be a huge performance gain. But, then again, even the 9C1 police optioned Caprices were only factory rated at 205 hp!

I re-loomed everything I had left with a Summit wire loom kit (pretty cheap and looks great) then fabbed my own (probably not weatherproof) bulkhead seal. When I'm all finished, I'll probably silicone over the wires passing through the bulkhead.


So, if you don't mind since you seem to have expert advise, I'd like to ask what is the function of the VSS module located in the dash cluster in about the center of the Caprice? That's something I didn't realize was there until after I'd gotten rid of the car and one of the wires coming off the VSS is supposed to connect to it. Did it have anything to do with cruise control? Does it serve an important function and do I need to go source one from a JY or can I eliminate that wire? As I recall, there were 3 wires coming off that VSS and the other two are connected to their proper places.

Finally, my old fuse panel only has about 8 or 9 glass fuses and one spade terminal for an unfused ignition hot source. Oh, and one or two spade terminals for constant battery power. I've already wired 3 different EFI-related circuits (with correct-amperage in-line fuses) to these terminals and I still have a couple more circuits that require ignition-hot voltage. Is there a clean way to build a separate fuse panel or buss bar that provides ignition-hot voltage? Maybe a supplemental fuse panel or something? I've checked vendors who specialize in hot rod electrical and haven't found what I'm looking for.

Sounds like you have got your swap pretty well completed. I would love to see some pics of how you did yours. The biggest single regret I have is, not re-doing the harness, mostly because of fear of screwing up everything.(wiring is my weakest area of work). The fact is I ended up with a bunch of extra wires that won't be used. I still need to figure out how to mount the ecm like the 87 and up trucks hopefully.
BTW, what are the 3 circuits you fused ?I only had 2 if I remember right, well the fuel pump had one already with the donor harness. I would do like Cableguy suggested and snag an under hood buss and relay center from pull a part or similar. Let me know if you find a way to replace the air pump.

I still lack the speedo (autometer sounds awesome if you have $$$$$), the A/C, Park/N switch. We installed new shocks on the front tonight. New brakes tomorrow. We are looking for some economical wheels and tires. It is almost safe to drive! Here is the build up cost for anyone interested:
Truck $600
Donor $300
Exhaust gasket bolts $50
Fuel Pump $155
Fuel Pump install kit $20
Fuel Filter $10
Fuel lines $25
F/I clamps $8
U-Joint Clamps $5
Tranny mount $17
High pressure P/S line $18
Oil Change $18
Misc.? $50
Front Shocks $53
Valve Covers $50
Valve Cover Gaskets $18
Rear Shocks $47
Brakes $55
Stereo $100
Primer/ Body supplies $150
Paint kit prep supplies $160
More Paint Stuff $40
Wheels $689
A/C Parts $87
Side Molding $85
Tires $479
Tire install $60

Total $3370
Hauled off the Donor to scrap $145
New Total $3225

[grayharville]

great writeup! i plan on doing a TBI swap into my 70 one day, and i plan on using your thread as a guide, theres alot of helpful, straightforward info here.

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by grayharville

great writeup! i plan on doing a TBI swap into my 70 one day, and i plan on using your thread as a guide, theres alot of helpful, straightforward info here.

Thanks! I really couldn't, and probably wouldn't have done this swap without help from the guys on this board.

Here is an update:
My son and I went to the local Pull a part in OKC Saturday. Wow! we made the mistake going late afternoon. There must have been 200 guys out there pulling parts. I was really looking for an electrically driven speedo/cluster. No luck, just about every cluster I found had been destroyed by losers that don't have a clue how to pull parts. It looked like they had taken a hammer to them. Anyway, I did pick up the ECM bracket from a 87 up burb, some door lock/ window switches and a breather base so we can add a chrome breather (all for $12). I did have to cut the angled lip off the back side for the bracket to mount flush (I guess the sheetmetal is a little different). I now have the ecm mounted where it looks just like a factory job. Here are the pics of the parts and install:

[89muscletruck]

Nice build this is really cool!

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by grayharville

great writeup! i plan on doing a TBI swap into my 70 one day, and i plan on using your thread as a guide, theres alot of helpful, straightforward info here.

Originally Posted by 89muscletruck

Nice build this is really cool!

Thanks guys! I learned a bunch from the guys here on the board. I am confident I would do this swap again but, I have moved right into LSx engine for his 69 project.
I am going to keep going on this truck too. We are talking about painting it, Personally, I like the original paint and rallys.....I guess I'm old school.

[63 & 64 Bowties]

Great writeup. I'm thinking of starting something similar. I have a 92 tbi motor and 4L80E trans out of a dually. I originally was gonna swap the tbi to carb and install a HEI (then I'd have to get a different trans too) but I see where a lot of you are doing the harness and tbi install. I have the complete donor truck and so far I've unhooked the harness from under the hood and taken the ECM out. I have no idea what I'm doing though. I'm completely old school. I don't see mention of how to actually get power to the ECM. I know there are a few guys who will re-work harnesses for the LS swaps so that you only have to hook up three wires when you get it back. You didn't use the complete donor car's harness from under the dash and all did you? This is like an electrician's nightmare to me.

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by 63 & 64 Bowties

Great writeup. I'm thinking of starting something similar. I have a 92 tbi motor and 4L80E trans out of a dually. I originally was gonna swap the tbi to carb and install a HEI (then I'd have to get a different trans too) but I see where a lot of you are doing the harness and tbi install. I have the complete donor truck and so far I've unhooked the harness from under the hood and taken the ECM out. I have no idea what I'm doing though. I'm completely old school. I don't see mention of how to actually get power to the ECM. I know there are a few guys who will re-work harnesses for the LS swaps so that you only have to hook up three wires when you get it back. You didn't use the complete donor car's harness from under the dash and all did you? This is like an electrician's nightmare to me.

That 92 TBI is basically the same engine/tranny I used. It would be a great donor engine. Okay, as far as the underdash wiring went, I trimmed as much of that off as I could at the ECM. If I do another one, I will take the harness off the engine and cut out all the unused wires (like the Power steer sensor wires). Hooking up the power is straight forward, there are only a few connections that have to hot. Some with the key on and in run, some hot all the time. You should have a buss on the firewall of your donor next to the relays. I think you can keep all this intact on your new project. I will help you any way I can, I'm sure you can count on Cableguy and RFMaster to help you too. Those guys are the best and forgot more about tbi then I will ever know. Anyway, get an ECM diagram for your 92 and take your time with the harness, it will work, I guarantee if I can get through it you can too. (I suck at wiring)
Here are a few helpful threads:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=317519
http://www.ih8mud.com/tech/tbi350.php


Mike

[menace121978]

WOW! great write up, info, and build! awesome job Mike!! looks real good under the hood buddy!!

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by menace121978

WOW! great write up, info, and build! awesome job Mike!! looks real good under the hood buddy!!

Thanks for the props Dennis! We have a few other things to finish on this truck like the speedometer. My son is a little over 15 1/2 so he has a learner permit, he has been driving to grandmas up the road a couple of miles. The truck is running really good. (fires right up every time!)

He turns 16 in a few months. Hopefully, we have new wheels/tires and a few other mods done before he starts driving it to school. There goes my insurance!

[menace121978]

yea, its all worth it though. i bet he is stoked! grinnin' ear to ear everytime he looks outside! probably put 200 miles on it just driving back and forth for 2 mile stretches have him start a list of whats next and prioritize it. thats what i used(actually still am) to do on mine!

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by menace121978

yea, its all worth it though. i bet he is stoked! grinnin' ear to ear everytime he looks outside! probably put 200 miles on it just driving back and forth for 2 mile stretches have him start a list of whats next and prioritize it. thats what i used(actually still am) to do on mine!

Yep, we actually put together a "punch" list there are a lot of little things to do you know, rear shocks, brakes, radiator leaky at the heater hose, seat or nice cover, dash, etc. etc. etc. in the order of the most importance first.

[mcbassin]

Update:
Picked up some new shocks, valve cover gaskets and an engine dress up kit. Unfortunately, the breather cover won't work with the donor bolts (too short) the chrome valve covers worked out good.Then put new shocks on the rear. After all that I took it out for a test drive, man it sure rides a lot better! Here are some pics of the engine before and after, (sorry pics aren't the best).

[cableguy0]

looks good. just gotta get rid of that gigantic air cleaner assembly

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by cableguy0

looks good. just gotta get rid of that gigantic air cleaner assembly

Yep, I know, I tried but I have to get some longer bolts to go into the throttle body. It looks like crap I agree. Most of the breathers are the single bolt style. I will get the bolts at the pull a part. No big deal. I think my son kinda likes the goofy thing....go figure.

[menace121978]

looking good!

i kinda like it too

[SBTork]

Very cool, cheap project for an up-and-coming gearhead