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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
I am following everything you said in this post, however I have a question. Can I just run the lines in a 90 degree bend to ports closest to each other? Only reason I ask is I couldnt get my lines to stretch without messing them up. The only thing I dont know is if the front and rear port of the master put out the same pressure and volume.
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#2 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,501
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Hey Red, what's involved in changing it and how do we identify which a vehicle has?
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#3 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA.
Posts: 64
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Sure.
Unbolt the master cylinder assemply from the booster, pull it away from the booster and leave it hanging by the steel lines. Disconnect the vacuum line that runs from the intake to the booster. It's a pre-bent steel line coupled to a 1/2 rubber vacuum hose near the booster. In my case I couldn't get the hose off the steel line so I slit the hose along its length and pryed it off the steel line. The booster has 4 studs in a square pattern that extend thru the firewall and are held on by 13mm (if memory serves) nuts inside the cab up and behind the brake pedal. 3 out of 4 nuts were pretty easy to get to, just pull back your carpet/vinyl a bit to expose them. The 4th required a u-joint socket adaptor and took awhile to get out. The booster "push rod" slips over a stud on the brake pedal assemply and a retaining clip holds it in place. A pair of pliers or screwdriver will remove the retaining clip, slip the booster push rod off the stud, remove the nuts from the mounting and the booster is free. Note: there is a short steel machined cylinder stuck in the master cylinder side of the booster. Your new booster will come with it's own. Make sure it stays inside the booster or your brakes won't work! I can't vouch for the 9" dual diaphram booster, but both the 10.75" single diaphram and the 10.5" dual diaphram booster have the same bolt pattern and push rod so the new booster will bolt right into place, connect up to the brake pedal assembly. Was a little nervous moving the master cylinder around to allow enough room the put the larger booster into place but I got away with it ![]() Oreilly's didn't have 1/2 vacuum hose so I used 1/2 fuel injection hose which has worked fine so far for the replacment booster vacuum line. That with a hose clamp and I was back in business. As far as how to identify here are some pics that make the visual difference pretty obvious, at least when it's off the truck. The booster have stamp id's on them, as I recall about 1/2" letters. The 10.75" single is stamped "AB" and both the dual diaphram boosters are stamped "HR". You could see the "AB" stamp on mine while in the truck. Just take a flashlight and take a close look at the master cylinder side of the booster body. For the purposes of this mod I wouldn't bother with the 9" booster, cost is about the same as the 10.5". This is all about increasing the area of diaphram and thereby increasing the force applied thru the booster to the master cylinder and reducing the amount of pedal force needed to stop the truck. From my research the standard brake system came with either no power booster or the 10.75" single diaphram booster. The heavy duty brake system variations came with the dual diaphram boosters at higher cost. 10.75" single diaphram: ![]() 10.5" dual diaphram: ![]() 9" dual diaphram: ![]() Hope this helps!
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'88 K1500 Scottsdale 5.7 TBI, 5spd MG5 |
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#4 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 25
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Red, how much thicker was the dual diaphragm booster? I was wondering how much I'd have to move the brake lines where they attach to the MC...
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#5 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA.
Posts: 64
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
I didn't have the presence of mind to measure but if memory serves about 2". There was plenty of slack in the brake lines coming up from the frame to make the connections. I imagine factory used same lines irregardless of the booster option.
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'88 K1500 Scottsdale 5.7 TBI, 5spd MG5 |
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#6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,501
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
So is the JB7 really 13" and if so, how do I find it?
Or should I just try making a slightly longer intermediate rod? |
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#7 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ozark, MO
Posts: 4,887
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Did the MC upgrade, and bled the whole system. Pedal feels great, although overall braking effectiveness is pretty much the same. I would like to add the dual-diaphram booster, 3/4 ton calipers and Powerstop drilled and slotted rotors.
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'20 Silverado Trail Boss ~ '17 Tahoe ~ '79 K15 Sierra Grande ~ '76 Blazer 2wd ~ '71 Cheyenne swb ~ '55 Pontiac Safari ~'50 3100 bagged ~ '80 Wife ~ Late model kids
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#8 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 25
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
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#9 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,501
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Nope never found anything
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#10 |
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Motor City
Posts: 9,200
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
I apologize for not thinking of this sooner: I have the brake system release charts from the brake engineer for the '74 and '87 trucks C/K/R/V squarebody versions.
While not totally germaine (I do not have the corresponding GMT400 versions) it will give you an idea of the proliferation and the way the components are structured and named (by part number and broadcast code). I don't see the "DA" coded booster on here but you can imagine where it would go. One of the ways you would find the corresponding part number for the "DA" booster would be finding a chart like this and working backwards. For your entertainment: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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Chevrolet Flint Assembly 1979-1986 GM Full Size Truck Engineering 1986 - 2019 Intro from an Old Assembly Guy: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 My Pontiac story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 Chevelle intro: http://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ |
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#11 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 25
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Upgrading from a single diaphragm booster to a DD should make a noticeable difference. The 3/4 ton calipers should take advantage of your new MC as well. Just remember the 3/4 ton pads will rub your rotor hat, so either use 1/2 ton pads or grind down the metal backing plate on the 3/4 on pads.
I liked my powerslot rotors (not drilled though), hope they treat you well! |
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#12 |
driving is in my blood
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Mesa AZ
Posts: 5,726
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
I've had a couple sets of 3/4ton pads on my 98 that also has the larger piston 3/4ton calipers and 1/2ton rotors, never had a rubbing issue.
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-78 c10 short/step: 388cid, M20, 5/5 drop, lots more. Playtoy and first vehicle. -98 c1500 x-cab: 5.7L, 17" rims, 5/6 drop, flowmaster, helper bags,NBS rear disk brakes. -02 Suburban 4x4: leveled front -CBR600F4i, CBR600RR, CBR1000RR, and standup skis DISCLAIMER: I cant spell for the life of me. |
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#13 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 25
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Hey Speedy,
Since we dusted off this thread I thought I'd mention that the nnbs trucks added an electric vacuum pump to the brake systems. I plumbed one up to see if i could feel any difference... |
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 25
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Thanks, that's pretty sweet. Wish we had them for the 400/800's !
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#15 |
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Motor City
Posts: 9,200
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Well - actually - based on this thread I sent an email earlier this morning to one of the old brake engineers.
He says he has the charts for GMT400 (hardcopy) so I am going to swing by his desk and grab them on Thursday. I hope to be able to scan and post them for future reference, similar to the squarebody charts. K
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Chevrolet Flint Assembly 1979-1986 GM Full Size Truck Engineering 1986 - 2019 Intro from an Old Assembly Guy: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 My Pontiac story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 Chevelle intro: http://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ |
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#16 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 25
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Wow! I'll keep my fingers crossed!
Thanks! |
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#17 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 25
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Correct, no difference between the front and rear circuits on the NBS mc. The instructions you attached appeared to be the bench bleeding procedures so I couldn't find the reference to line flipping...
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#18 | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 37
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Quote:
Quote:
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#19 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 25
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Ahhhhhhhh! That's horrible...no I would not try to stretch and bend the lines. They'd never line up and seat properly and you'd probably end up jacking the line.
That's surprising to me, thanks for sharing! |
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#20 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,501
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
I didn't know about the "crossed lines" since I bought a unit from Advance Auto.
What would be the purpose of switching the lines? We need information regarding the NBS brake lines vs ours. See if they are reversed from the factory compared to ours. I have 2 friends with a NBS 99 I'll take a look at over the weekend and get back to us. If that is the case, I may try reversing them. The lines are very flexible and if SSBC says to do it, it won't be a problem. Last edited by speedygonzales; 12-17-2014 at 07:48 AM. |
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#21 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 37
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
I got mine at Advance Auto, I just ran accross the SSBC instructions on line. I was just wondering about the difference. If GM changed the location of the front vs rear lines from the 400 to the 800, then SSBC may just be covering their butt by keeping the factory "front" activating the front brakes when you switch. It's easier to keep the lines in the old position, but there is plenty of flexibility in the lines to switch then...if needed.
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#22 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Motor City
Posts: 9,200
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Whelp - I've got good news and I've got bad news.
The good news is I got the stuff. The bad news is it is pictured below.... that's a 3" three ring binder full of various folded up pieces of parchment paper, starting from 1969 through about 2001. Both full size truck and S truck. I'm not quite sure how to get that all converted to electronic media in my lifetime, but in the short term I'll post up a representative GMT400 chart and would be happy to answer any specific release/part number questions you might have. I'll also see if I can get some detail on that "DA" booster you were asking about earlier. K
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Chevrolet Flint Assembly 1979-1986 GM Full Size Truck Engineering 1986 - 2019 Intro from an Old Assembly Guy: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 My Pontiac story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 Chevelle intro: http://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ |
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#23 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Motor City
Posts: 9,200
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Sample page showing the '97 K truck (which my Suburban is) and detail on the "DA" vacuum booster.
P/N 18024268; It was released for: K10516 & JB5 K10703 & JB5 K10706 & JB6 K10903 & JB5 K10906 & JB6 K10753 & JB6 K10753 & JB6 & F44 K10953 & JB5 K10953 & JB6 K20753 & JB7 Welcome to Truck Engineering! K
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Chevrolet Flint Assembly 1979-1986 GM Full Size Truck Engineering 1986 - 2019 Intro from an Old Assembly Guy: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 My Pontiac story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 Chevelle intro: http://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ Last edited by Keith Seymore; 12-18-2014 at 01:13 PM. |
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#24 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,501
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
So is what you are showing mean if the marking is "DA" we have a JB7 and if I understand it correctly the most powerful vacuum booster is the JB7 or do I have any of that incorrect?
The part number 18024268 does not come up as a good replacement part number. Last edited by speedygonzales; 12-18-2014 at 05:21 PM. |
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#25 | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Motor City
Posts: 9,200
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Quote:
The part numbers shown are production part numbers; service numbers will likely be different. K
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Chevrolet Flint Assembly 1979-1986 GM Full Size Truck Engineering 1986 - 2019 Intro from an Old Assembly Guy: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 My Pontiac story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 Chevelle intro: http://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ |
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