48 Chevy COE custom diesel build

[Purcell69]

Originally Posted by Chance48

Been peckin around on this thing a little lately. Got the front end mounting sorted, filled my bumper gap, finished the bumper mounts(decided to make bumper removable). Then, I made some phone calls in search of rad and intercooler. Called TCP, the guy informed me that using electric fans on the rad was a bad idea. The stock engine driven fan, at high working rpm' swill put out almost double the cfm's of two good 16" fans together. Which, will not cool the engine sufficiently , especially should I really use the truck. So...back to the drawing board I went.

Chance

Chance, I would research the whole electric fan thing a bit further. The 6BT Cummins is not notorious for running hot anyway, not like a BBC. They don't need a lot to keep them cool and happy. The stock electric clutch on the cooling fan on my 2003 Cummins seldom kicks in, and usually only on the hottest days, with the AC on. You can definitely hear the difference when the fan is not freewheeling. If you are concerned about cooling, especially with a smaller radiator, check in to a two stage fan from the mid-1990s Lincoln Continental or the Taurus. 1995 is a good target year as I recall, and is probably similar to the P71 police interceptor Crown Vics, up through 2005 or so. The rock crawler guys in Jeep Cherokee XJs swear by these. Peak CFM is over 4,000 when the fan kicks in to high gear, around 2,500 at low speed, as I recall.

-Joe

[Chance48]

47, I'll try and find the seat in junk yard, thanks. Ok, here's the deal, because the engine is so tall I really can't go up anymore, or definitely don't want to anyways. I'm kinda setting all this up as suspension unloaded, guessing a couple inch drop from wieght. I've got the chassis setting level now. I like level but can always pop a little rake in there with no adverse effect. I've got the oil pan bout 1/2" above the running boards/steps. Ride height is 9" unloaded so I'm thinking a fully aired right height of 6-7" and a cruising height of around 5" and a fully aired out height of 1 1/2" or 2" roughly. I don't like the engine and rad and tranny brace that close to the ground but it's a hot rod hauler, it's gotta be low right? Haha. And, I can't really do anything about it, cuz raising the cab is outta the question, lol. Think I'm gonna build a skid plate/pan that will do two things....channel ram air from grill to rad/engine and also keep any little debris from kicking up into rad and condenser. I'd really like to have had my suspension sorted but I didn't realize the guy I got my 4 link and bags from would need two weeks or more to fab and ship. Called him and he nonshalantly said, oh yeah they'll be going out this week I think, in welding now...Jesus, I said!! So, I'm approaching this way. I think I'm right on the money with it and definitely close enough that no "major" adjustments will be needed.

I've said it before and I'll say it again....don't think I'll ever do a cummins/COE cross again!! Damn engine is just to big....bout 34" square is needed to put it in and that's not giving any wiggle room, not to mention its length aswell. I hope it's not like riding on top of a tornado like wild bill or something....that engine fan makes some serious noise when you bury the hammer. Think I'll build a double wall and insulate the **** outta it, inside and out, plus carpet...might keep it quiet enough in the cab?

Also, lucky I own a 2004 cummins aswell. After getting this engine mocked up, or prior better yet, I had to remove the turbo. In 2003 they changed the ex header and turbo location. I had a reference to look at. I've got a lead on a hardly used, out of a wrecked 04 , turbo and ex header. The 01 turbo was in the way and I was gonna have to figure a whole new cab mount for that back corner. The new 04 set up moves it to the back of the engine and down....major bullet dodged there!!

Any thoughts welcome Rob. This is my first build ever so something obvious could slip right by me. I spend a lot of time between each move, looking and thinking about the effect it may have down the line or looking for something I'm missing, like I almost missed that the engine and tranny needed offset to the drivers side 2"....it may take longer but I shouldn't have a lot of redo's, I hope, haha. But seriously, I appreciate your responses to my thread. I pulled a lot of inspiration and knowledge from your build. I'll be using the 90 degree hydro boost idea for sure.

I got a question. I'm gonna have to unbolt the rear axle to install the drive shaft aren't I? That would be a lot to make it so you cheat it back to set in the yoke. I'm probably sweating over nothing, but thinking ahead none the less, haha.

Maybe I should get a copy right, sorry.lol. I'll stop now....

Chance

[lower50's]

Chance not sure if I agree with the mechanical fan moving more air than a good electric. I got this off the Flex-a-lite sight:
"Since a belt-driven fan increases speed (and airflow) with engine speed, it can move more air at higher engine rpm - usually above 2,400 rpm - than an electric fan. Conversely, electric fans move more air than belt-driven fans at engine speeds below 2,400 rpm in typical applications.
One major downside of belt-driven fans is parasitic loss. It simply takes more energy to spin a belt-driven fan than it does to produce the electricity needed for a comparable electric fan."

And since diesels don't spin to fast and don't create much heat at idle. Any fan is useless on the highway. Just trying to help, might make it easier for you to build your cooling system and you won't have a tornado under your ass.
My 16" derale cooling fan is rated at 2100cfm. Bumper looks great.

[Task Force Era]

Loving your build man. Looks like you're not messing around!

[47 Fasttoys]

Hey chance, on the drive shaft question, no you should not need to remove the rear end at all. Normally you should have 3/4 to 1 inch of forward travel available when the drive shaft is in it's normal operating position. That travel will give room for spring wrap under high torque conditions and also allow the rear U-joint enough room forward to remove the drive shaft. If you don't have that travel you will need to have your drive shaft shortened. I assume you had a 2 piece drive shaft? On mine I was able to move the trans yoke to the rear drive shaft and use it uncut. Lucky me.
Rob

[Chance48]

Thx Aftermath, I'm tryin to give'er hell...

Rob, that's good news. Reason I asked cuz when I disassembled the truck the yoke was all the way in the tranny. After some thought, I realize that is because it's a two piece and any movement was compensated for at the center drive spline. And yes, lucky you, haha. I'm gonna cut mine myself. I'm pretty sure I can handle it. Should it need balanced I can always pull it and have that done but I have a hunch it'll be fine.

Lowers, according to the engineer at TCP, my engine fan at say 2500 rpm will make about 7500 cfm's of air movement and two 16" electrics together will do about 4400 cfm. I completely get what you mean but it's that upper rpm when say your tuggin a load up a mountain, think I'm gonna need that engine fan and shroud then. Now, I may put a fan infront of condenser cuz it gets hot as a mofo and at low speeds these a/c units can definitely benefit from that. I wish, and most time I'm not gonna need that engine fan for just light cruising.....maybe I could remove it and put it on only for trips in the hills and pulling loads, thus using the one fan I'll have infront of the condenser! It's not hard to remove at all, that's an idea?! Thanks

Chance

[Dieselwrencher]

Man, have you ever worked on a van with a diesel in it? If your cab doesn't tilt forward, I wouldn't put the engine that far under the cab. But that's just me. I've worked on too many bread trucks, vans, and odd ball equipment where access to the engine makes everything so much harder to do. Can you even get the valve cover off where the engine sets now? I have a few industrial 24v exhaust manifolds that place the turbo in the same position as the common rails too. But, getting a HE351 would be a great upgrade for you. Yes, these engines are long and tall. I'd rather stretch the frame and do some more fab than fight the engine under the cab. Your body on yours is in so much better shape than mine was. That is some nice sheet metal!

[Chance48]

LOL Wrencher,

I've thought long and hard about it. I'll make the cab easy to remove in regards to wiring and what not. Everything will be new in and on the engine, so fingers crossed I will not have to be doing anything major for a long time....but I do know that crap happens. I'll pay that price if it are to happen. I'll plan my wiring and pluming accordingly so removing the cab won't be that difficult. Hell, brand new diesel trucks require cab removal to have EGR cooler and head work. I do feel your pain though. Working on anything newer is a PITA.

Is the HE351 the common rail stock turbo?

Chance

[Dieselwrencher]

If you plan to tow heavy, I'd try to stay with the mechanical fan if at all possible. Yes, it's true these engines move a lot of coolant and stay cool really nice without a fan. Until you turn the a/c or have a heavy load and get stuck in traffic.

The HE351 is on 04.5-07 5.9's. I have a rebuildable core I'd sell really cheap. Haha

[Chance48]

Check this out wrencher,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161745195824...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Purcell, I'm gonna do just that. Lowers convinced me to dig a little deeper. I talked to my local diesel guy and he said people are running electric fan conversions on a lot of trucks with chips and used in towing with success. TCP totally made sense to me when he told me what he told me but maybe he is not correct. My diesel guy told me to check out Perma Cool, they will have kits I can get specs off of and copy the components necessary. I have yet to do that, but it may be looking like I can remove the tornado maker after all, haha. But, I understand when not a lot is being asked of the engine it will run cool....concern is pulling loads in hills, things of that nature. My idea is to put the rad in location so if the electrics don't work out I can shroud in the engine fan. Word is, the engine fan can rob as much as 50 hp!!

[lower50's]

Chance I got my rebuilt HX35 off ebay for $650 Canadian to my door. I know its not a HE351 the deals are out there. Found this for you.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DODGE-04-07-...9WXoST&vxp=mtr

[Dieselwrencher]

Buy the turbo Lower50's found you and I'll sell you a manifold. Don't spend that much for the first link!

[Chance48]

The specs are the same wrencher between the 35 and 351. It has the electronic waste gate?

I already pulled the trigger on the one I posted.

[Dieselwrencher]

No, the specs aren't the same from the 35 and the 351. The 35 comp wheel is 57mm and the HE351 should be 60mm.

[Chance48]

Damn it! Oh well, maybe a better turbo later on then......way later, haha. Thanks

[Dieselwrencher]

If you baught this turbo in this link below, it is either a HE341 or a HE351. Early 04's had 341's and 04.5 up had the HE351. The 341 is near the same size as a HX35.

[lower50's]

Either way the turbo will get you going its not hard to buy, swap, sell to a different one later.

[Chance48]

Well, I just don't know why some folks feel the need to be crooks. The turbo is shot. I filed for a return then we negotiated, I settled for 150.00 refund. I'll get a rebuild kit and use the wheel from my old turbo. The guy said the turbo was good and only had 27k miles on it when it was removed. The bearings are so bad the wheel was rubbing the housing!

I'll save a hundred bucks this way, just gotta rebuild it which I don't mind. Never done it before so a little learning experience is a good thing.

Wished I hadn't already bought this before you guys posted what you did. I woulda returned it to the guy but he wouldn't pay return shipping, so I'd been out 90.00 plus have to worry about him refunding full amount. He was acting shady about it. I think I'm gonna leave bad feedback even though we came to a resolution, what an asshat.

Chance

[lower50's]

S##tty deal. Sorry to hear.

[Dieselwrencher]

Yeah, that is definitely a bad deal! He should refund you a lot more than $150 if you paid him $900 for that deal. Make sure you don't get a china rebuild kit. Get a Holset, or turbo international, or even an IHI if they offer one.

[Chance48]

I was gonna ask you wrencher if one of those cheap China 351 turbos would be a bad idea or not. I guess the answer is that it would be a bad idea?

I'll chalk that buy up to inexperience. Once it is rebuilt I'll have a total of 790.00 in the whole setup with shipping. That's not to bad for genuine parts I think. It's hard to find all those parts together used and buying all piece by piece would be more than 790.00. I wished I had not already bought it before hearing you had the manifold and lowers found that turbo. You wrencher have got me wanting an he351 now...lol, I'm gonna resist the temptation though. I'll put a boost elbow on and leave it at that. Not gonna be building a huge amount of power anyways. I'd like to make 450 hp but may not make it. Gonna get some 75hp injectors, put a good quality programmer in it, use a boost elbow, get psi up to help get the egt's down and assist the injectors and chip in making more power, and feed it all with an airdog fuel pump setup.

[Chance48]

Here are some pics of my progress. They are not best quality and I'm not real good at documenting, lol.





This is my engine cross member. I built it and it changed as I built it, that is why it is pieced like that. I like the welds anyways.









I added a doublet to the top of the frame and tapped the holes and tapped the 1/4" plate on top of this mount, so it is all removeable. I welded in a bottom crossmember rad support with rubber pucks for it to sit on. I'm a little concerned it might be to hard fastened. I may try something a lil softer and forgiving. Thoughts?


Gotta be a use for this in the future...






The weld didn't need ground but I lightly went over the whole weld to make sure no pinholes or inclusions were present. It should hold up just fine.



Hard to see but I'm very pleased with how well lined up the entire drive line is. I'll dial in 2 degrees of negative pinion angle maybe one degree seeing how I'm using airbags. Either way it'll be just fine.







Now I'm getting the frame ready for the four link and pan hard install. It is stripped, the spring perches are removed from axle. Just gotta get axle blocked up so I can position it perfectly for the install, then airbags are next. Maybe tomorrow I'll have it setting on its new links and suspension. Then onto the front end airbags. Then mount the intercooler. Then I'll get my steering column ordered and I'm thinking I'll build my own sidewinder drop box for the lineup of the linkages. Then...then...then...it'll never stop, haha.

Chance

[lower50's]

Yes it will at least slow lol. Your progress looks good its fun when it all comes together. For the boost elbow I'm getting one of these.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-BL...tRrRud&vxp=mtr

Not sure if that's high enough pressure for you but you get the idea. I think stock Cummins is 20psi?

[Chance48]

Hey, I like that idea lowers. I put it in my cart just now. I'm not sure on the boost of cummins. Years ago I had a setup on one of my old trucks and I believe it got up to 30 psi. The programmer came with a spring for the waste gate, I'm assuming to delay it a bit to get boost up. That truck would get up to 1250 egt easy. I had to be careful. An egt gauge is a must if going outside stock parameters, imo. This truck I'm building is gonna have so many gauges, lol. I'm thinking I might just remove the radio speaker grill altogether and custom build a nice big gauge panel. I'm not real concerned about keeping it to original at this point. It's all about custom , function and looking/sounding good at this point, haha.

[47 Fasttoys]

Looks good Chance, for the 4 link are using a universal kit or one made for the Dodge chassis? I may do some type of change to my rear suspension at some time so take a few pictures. I guess you will need to build some type of a removable dog house? For the bed are you doing a tilt style or a ramp style?
Progress looks good for sure.
Rob