Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.

[Elephanthead]

My point about the $5000 cost is if the engine only is usable for 50 miles, you have an issue with the builder, if you paid some joker 100 bucks to do a junkyard swap, that is another matter. I realize costs out west are higher, so maybe $5,000 doesn't get you what is does here. Anyway the place to diagnose it is not over the internet. Tear that thing down. Sorry to hear your having issues.

[Gray Ghost]

Your point misses the mark and the issue. He's just trying to get an idea of what it might be. We all know there's no way to tell the entire issue until it's taken apart and the builder needs to do that himself.

I always ask opinions when I run into issues like this and I have had similar things happen to motors built in the past.

The cost comments are irrelevant unless you live in the area he does, know every single component that went into the engine and have dealt with the builder personally. If you don't know any of this, you really can't comment on the cost of the rebuild. You can only think of what it might cost in your area for comparison. Saying that it was too much to pay isn't helping.

Finally, any motor can fail...all it takes is one component and there are many that make up a motor. You can buy a new GM crate motor and have it tank on you during the break in period...I've seen it happen.

[WorkinLonghorn]

As far as what is wrong, it is probably an issue with the valve train, new parts take a while to "season" and lifters are notorious for bleeding down or failing.

He says the noise gets louder when he steps on it.
What would make a valve-train problem react like this?
Unless he means the noise gets louder as RPMs rise, I know it is piston,rod or bearing problem although he might ALSO have a valve train prob.

If it was me,and I didn't want to do any testing myself,I would find a shop that would agree to do a check-up for a good price and get it towed there. Let them know that you ARE NOT going to have any other work done on it there other than MAYBE the engine remove/replace.
Then fax the report to your builder and do what ever he suggests assuming he's taking full responsibility.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by Elephanthead

My point about the $5000 cost is if the engine only is usable for 50 miles, you have an issue with the builder, if you paid some joker 100 bucks to do a junkyard swap, that is another matter. I realize costs out west are higher, so maybe $5,000 doesn't get you what is does here. Anyway the place to diagnose it is not over the internet. Tear that thing down. Sorry to hear your having issues.

So ill repeat my self again. I do not have an issue with the builder of this engine. Again I do not have an issue with the builder of this engine. Do i need to say it again. Nor the price paid. and again.........

Actually its far from junked, the engine still runs and its done over 4500 miles. I stopped driving it when all this happened before I knew if it was serious. This is why I originally posted the thread. Again we are still going on about price. Let me tell you how it is at the moment. The builder of this motor will not only at his cost entirely ship the truck back to Bakersfield will cover the cost of a full rebuild if necessary. There is no reason nor was there for legal action or for me to run around having a tizzy fit and getting all cranky pointing the finger at someone else. This could very well be entirely my fault. Who knows. Something that I see a lot of here is people who are truly not responsible for there own actions in life and are the victim of someone elses issues. There is merely inconvenience on my part and my beast will not be around for a week or so. Shal we do some maths here. Humm 800 each way for shipping 200 for extra insurance due to the nature of the vehicle and possibly a totally new engine. even just the parts alone. Wow that might cost more than the original job.

Will your cheap re builder warrant his work with something like that. I very much think not. Remember its the other side of the country not just up the road. Now if you want to rubbish him any more. Would your builder start building you an engine on Xmas eve and have parts come emergency express on FedEx so that in 5 days you can have an engine to continue your drive to new york so you don't loose the job your relocating to the other side of the country for. Help you organize a rental car and drive you 20 miles to pick it up so you are not trapped in a strange town for Xmas and can go and spend time with your friends. Get 2 of his workers to also commit to loosing there Xmas. Anyone that posts on here anything about money again will be shunned to the highest degree from me. Questioning the ability or integrity of the builder or the work-componentry or 30 or so years of experience he has doing this has achieved what for anyone that reads this in the future.

This is nothing to do with my original question and is totally counter productive. You also have no idea what was done or the full list of components or the hours of labor that were billed. All this opinion and no one bothered to ask how much you pay a really top guy to do this. Just that there mate can do it for less. You have not driven nor have you herd this motor. As I have said the one mechanic that worked on it here was absolutely blown away by this motor when he drove it. He is also not backyard bob. The man drives the most amazing mustang I have seen in a long time. It would blow anyone away and he commented that my truck weighing 2 times as much would leave it for dead. The speedo moves like a tach in a 4 cylinder. It is seriously fast even with such a tiny carb.

I do not want to fix this motor my self nor do I have any intention of taking it to anyone locally for repair. I was just looking to learn more and seek information on what could be the issue.

I would most certainly and will in the future have engines built at this very shop. I actually miss the attitude from California as it seems to not be as petty, pessimistic and miserable.

The slightest thoughts of it being the cam has resulted in it going back to CA. I have felt the rockers move and the push is not as far as the rest from this rod. It is not bent and all looks seemingly healthy above. I would doubt that its killed the piston as its moving less and not more. I do not however have xray vision.

And now for a treat for you all. Here she is in white sands New Mexico. Which is odly enough more than 50 miles from Bakersfield. Are we to start a new thread on if the Gypsum got into the motor and killed it. Come on. Constructive comments here not crushed egos please..

Actually I believe that costs out west are less. From what I have seen on offer in NY or Jersey you seem to get better value from CA. I am not talking about mechanics. Performance engine builders. The top ones. Not the one at the gas station. From people who were already working on engines when this truck came out and have a wall full of trophies from race engines that they have built.

This is not the shop i went to however they dont make 2.5k engines either. This is just an example of the type of shop that I am dealing with.

http://www.steveschmidtracing.com/en...pro-stock.html or this one
http://www.eddiesvalvegrinding.com/c...ne-pricing.htm

[Skirkpat]

Originally Posted by WorkinLonghorn

He says the noise gets louder when he steps on it.
What would make a valve-train problem react like this?
Unless he means the noise gets louder as RPMs rise, I know it is piston,rod or bearing problem although he might ALSO have a valve train prob.

If it was me,and I didn't want to do any testing myself,I would find a shop that would agree to do a check-up for a good price and get it towed there. Let them know that you ARE NOT going to have any other work done on it there other than MAYBE the engine remove/replace.
Then fax the report to your builder and do what ever he suggests assuming he's taking full responsibility.

I believe that as you press the accelerator the RPM's do indeed rise, valve train issues can easily result in a backfire or a lifter bouncing around in the bore, at 2500 RPMs a bad lifter or a stud that has pulled out allowing for a rocker to fly around will cause alot of racket. There very well may be issues in the shortblock. but as I stated in my original post there would be evidence of that in the oil/oil filter....neither one of us can know for certain I am 2000 miles from the truck, I just am giving the guy a good place to start, the small block is a simple engine to diagnose especially in this truck.

[hilandr452]

What a guy spends on his truck or his motor is his business.

The way the builder has handled this case from day one shows obvious integrity and good business sense. Even though you have relocated half way across the country and aren't likely to use him again, he is determined to make things right.

I've seen guys take advantage of people just because they won't have to deal with them again, but this guy seems to be one of the good guys. There are few of those left these days gentlemen.

I would ask you, when everything gets worked out in the end and you are satisfied with the results, to post this guys business and name so that those of us who appreciate a good shop can add him to our list of reputable businesses.

Don't be offended by these guys giving their opinions. Even though sometimes there is a lack of eloquence, most people here are only trying to help you and this is a forum, and forums are always full of opinions. We're lucky here that for the most part, kids don't post here. I've been on other forums and it gets ridiculous when you get in an argument with someone and try to convince them of something and then find out the guy you've been going back and forth with is 12. Kinda redundant if you know what I mean.


Thank you and good luck friend, keep us posted, this is an interesting story.

Dan

[WorkinLonghorn]

I believe that as you press the accelerator the RPM's do indeed rise,

No they don't necessarily except for a slight increase if it's an auto trans,but the point is that the way to tell if it's valve train trouble is to tap the peddle and if the noise increases then it's not valve train. How could the valve train "know if more gas is applied? it doesn't. Please think about this.wlh

[long69]

there are two areas that might be wrong with your motor, take that to the bank.
1 valve train include your fuel pump in that area as it is run off the cam.
2 crank.
this is assuming the truck is standing still.
driving add transmission and drive shaft.

once again check for any kind of metal chips or shavings in the oil. with the noise you describe there is bound to be some if its in the crank area . that means rod bearing.
let check it out with 4 pages of responses i can't be the only one waiting to hear whats up with this engine.

[theyammieguy]

Man, your making me want to get an engine built by this guy.

[Gray Ghost]

Great pic from my old haunting ground. I am from Alamogordo...only a few miles from White Sands. Spent many a day surfing down the dunes on a parafin waxed board!

I sure hope you keep us posted when you find out what happened.

[sflanagan]

Originally Posted by gavotter333

so ill repeat my self again. I do not have an issue with the builder of this engine. Again i do not have an issue with the builder of this engine. Do i need to say it again. Nor the price paid. And again.........

Actually its far from junked, the engine still runs and its done over 4500 miles. I stopped driving it when all this happened before i knew if it was serious. This is why i originally posted the thread. Again we are still going on about price. Let me tell you how it is at the moment. The builder of this motor will not only at his cost entirely ship the truck back to bakersfield will cover the cost of a full rebuild if necessary. There is no reason nor was there for legal action or for me to run around having a tizzy fit and getting all cranky pointing the finger at someone else. This could very well be entirely my fault. Who knows. Something that i see a lot of here is people who are truly not responsible for there own actions in life and are the victim of someone elses issues. There is merely inconvenience on my part and my beast will not be around for a week or so. Shal we do some maths here. Humm 800 each way for shipping 200 for extra insurance due to the nature of the vehicle and possibly a totally new engine. Even just the parts alone. Wow that might cost more than the original job.

Will your cheap re builder warrant his work with something like that. I very much think not. Remember its the other side of the country not just up the road. Now if you want to rubbish him any more. Would your builder start building you an engine on xmas eve and have parts come emergency express on fedex so that in 5 days you can have an engine to continue your drive to new york so you don't loose the job your relocating to the other side of the country for. Help you organize a rental car and drive you 20 miles to pick it up so you are not trapped in a strange town for xmas and can go and spend time with your friends. Get 2 of his workers to also commit to loosing there xmas. Anyone that posts on here anything about money again will be shunned to the highest degree from me. Questioning the ability or integrity of the builder or the work-componentry or 30 or so years of experience he has doing this has achieved what for anyone that reads this in the future.

This is nothing to do with my original question and is totally counter productive. You also have no idea what was done or the full list of components or the hours of labor that were billed. All this opinion and no one bothered to ask how much you pay a really top guy to do this. Just that there mate can do it for less. You have not driven nor have you herd this motor. As i have said the one mechanic that worked on it here was absolutely blown away by this motor when he drove it. He is also not backyard bob. The man drives the most amazing mustang i have seen in a long time. It would blow anyone away and he commented that my truck weighing 2 times as much would leave it for dead. The speedo moves like a tach in a 4 cylinder. It is seriously fast even with such a tiny carb.

I do not want to fix this motor my self nor do i have any intention of taking it to anyone locally for repair. I was just looking to learn more and seek information on what could be the issue.

I would most certainly and will in the future have engines built at this very shop. I actually miss the attitude from california as it seems to not be as petty, pessimistic and miserable.

The slightest thoughts of it being the cam has resulted in it going back to ca. I have felt the rockers move and the push is not as far as the rest from this rod. It is not bent and all looks seemingly healthy above. I would doubt that its killed the piston as its moving less and not more. I do not however have xray vision.

and now for a treat for you all. Here she is in white sands new mexico. Which is odly enough more than 50 miles from bakersfield. Are we to start a new thread on if the gypsum got into the motor and killed it. Come on. Constructive comments here not crushed egos please..

Actually i believe that costs out west are less. From what i have seen on offer in ny or jersey you seem to get better value from ca. I am not talking about mechanics. Performance engine builders. The top ones. Not the one at the gas station. From people who were already working on engines when this truck came out and have a wall full of trophies from race engines that they have built.

This is not the shop i went to however they dont make 2.5k engines either. T

nice!!!!!

[69halfton]

sorry, i have missed a bit of this thread as i have been busy in school with exams and so on.

what did you find/did you take apart the oil filter?

have you/someone had the lifters out and changed them for different lifters?

i would doubt that a rocker is physically moving around in the motor when running, if it was, there would be some serious marks on the valve cover etc.

if the lifters are gone, or it is something in the valve train, but the motor seems to be running half decent and not missing/backfiring. this usually means that all the valves are still opening. they definatly are not performing well obviously, but there is SOME lift, letting the truck run.

aside from all the racket...how is the truck running? rough/vibrations?

low idle?
poor throttle response off idle?

...the valve train WILL know when more gas is applied even if the engine rpms arent increased instantly.

its like riding a bike, your chain wont skip until you really push hard on the pedels...your speed hasn't increased yet, but there is that much more stress on the chain etc.

...then you fall on your face

[69halfton]

by the way, i had mine built, and i have just a little bit more $$ in mine (its a stroker, so the parts are more elaborate) but my builder has also stood by his work.

its really worth the money, unlike you, i didn't put many miles on the motor, and it wasn't until 2 years later when these problems developed. he recognized that the engine didn't have that many miles, but he could have easily told me that it was just from sitting so long and that it was my fault. I think he also kinda liked the fact that me being only 17, and into chevy trucks and hot rodding instead of driving some honda, and that i was funding this myself, and daddy wasn't just paying for everything i wanted...

he is one of those old guys that you find in the back of an industrail unit working with 1 other guy in his shop. the company name is speed radiator...but every single circle track racer around here has a motor from him. he is exactly what you described and i chuckled when i read it, he has trophies and pictures of race-cars past, and from all over the continent.

[chevybuldr]

I wish all customers were like you are. A good machinest will stand behind his parts and his work. A shop will not use junk if they know that it might fail and they have to replace it down the line. There are alot of thing that effect a motor. A common phrase after we hang up the phone from a "mechanic" is everybody blames the machine shop. Never mind its something that they might have missed and just skimmped on changing. An old radiator no need to be replaced. Gee why is it running hot? An oil cooler not flushed out. Oil pan not cleaned. We try hard to make sure that all is taken care of but you can not make them do everything.

You sound like you have found a great shop with people that care. The money you paid for a replace and remove and rebuild with all new block sounds like a very good price. Your a stand up guy. Thank you for standing up for your machinest and shop. I have seen some shody work come thru and I have heard some real price gougers but not every place is like that.
Just my 2cents.

[Ryan Hubbard]

I had my engine consuming oil and it would not smoke. I found the intake manifold gasket was leaking into the intake port of the cylinder head and being burned. And since it was going into the combustion chamber it is completely burned without smoking. I think that will be you oil consumption issue. If you pull the intake to check the lifters and cam, you will probably see one or more of your intake ports in the head covered in oil. ALso check your spark plugs for fouling from burning oil.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by Ryan Hubbard

I had my engine consuming oil and it would not smoke. I found the intake manifold gasket was leaking into the intake port of the cylinder head and being burned. And since it was going into the combustion chamber it is completely burned without smoking. I think that will be you oil consumption issue. If you pull the intake to check the lifters and cam, you will probably see one or more of your intake ports in the head covered in oil. ALso check your spark plugs for fouling from burning oil.

Very interesting. This would explain why there is no smoke or smell at all.

I am actually excited to see what the builder comes back with. I almost want to fly out to see it however think I will let him take care of all of this for me. I have driven about 10000 miles on trips alone this past year and think ill let it some back by carrier to me so history does not repeat its self.

I will have some time on Friday and am hoping that I can get my mechanic here to come over the weekend. Its 3 floors under the ground at the moment so It aint going anywhere.

[gavotter333]

Just an update for everyone that is reading this thread.

As it stands at the moment. The push rod on the cylinder in question is not moving as far as its neighboring cylinders. I have not measured it accurately but it would seem like its a lobe on the cam that has worn. Its a very lumpy cam and with the oil issues that have existed this makes some sence. The introduction of the new oil may have cause this failure. I am unable and unwilling to start removing major components like the manifold to see what else is not working. It is going back to the shop in Bakersfield for this. There is enough evidence that its failed. Weather it be heads block whatever will only be discovered upon disassembley.

I have however been told that I am not going to get the same lumpy cam back in the new motor and it will be a little milder. I am not too unhappy about this. I trust that what ever is replaced will be just as exciting and if its not then I will use this motor in my next project with a 1975 Chevy 4X4 rock crawler and will put a totally obnoxious stroker in the 72.

However this will happen after a bare metal respray of the entire truck and me finishing up the total replacement of all the interior components.

When it is started it starts. Its a really lumpy cam so you only really know something is horribly wrong when you try to accelerate. If its not pushed it sounds like its misfiring like a spark lead is dead. If you push it harder it gets very very noisy and tappy indeed. I have not started it or driven it since removing the rocker cover. I am unwilling to tighten the rocker down to match the rod and unless it can see medical attention here 3 storys below the snow it will only be started to move it to the surface to be put on a flatbed.

I will track its progress through its GPS and will know exactly where it is and how fast it is moving. I will also keep everyone on here updated as to the progress. If I have time I might fly to Bakersfield and take a nice bottle of something horribly expensive to give to him when I get it back. Then it can be shipped to NY and I will continue to drive it. Or I might get him to drive it for a week or until he is happy with everything before I get it.

There is also a possibility that it might go to Virginia to a shop that is a friend of the family so to speak, However I think it will be on its way to CA for the engine work.

I really appreciate all the comments and helpful suggestions offered by member on here.

When all of this is over Ill let you know who the shop and builder is and ORDER away.

I will keep you all updated.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by 69halfton

I think he also kinda liked the fact that me being only 17, and into chevy trucks and hot rodding instead of driving some honda, and that i was funding this myself, and daddy wasn't just paying for everything i wanted...

Just a really quick and not very serious comment( I say with a cheeky grin on my face), Dont knock hondas too much. They have one of the best engine designs that has ever existed. They might look like a japanese terd now and make pretty lifeless and boring cars however I was not allowed to have a V8 when I was 17 and so in revolt as my father and his 2 best mates were mechanics and one of them had a shop not too dissimilar to the one I am using built a totally spastic Civic with a 1.5L DOHC 4cl honda engine. Now we will be in KPH here but it use to almost get to 100 in second gear. This thing was insane it reved like a mororbike engine. Sounded reminiscent of a formula one engine would barely idle putting away. and as hard as i tried it would not blow up. Oh and I thrashed the living daylight out of this car. We also built a 1.2L City Turbo that would have shat on the current engine I have now. Intercooled turbo EFI etc. I went through 3 gearboxes in 4 months and they were rebuilt gearboxes. At the time there was only one Honda box that was vaiguely strong enough and it was japan only. LOL Pic below is not mine but the same model. Looks like a toy now.

I wish I was allowed to have a V8 when I was 17..Guess I get to make up for it now.

Sorry I know its not relevant to this but Thought id have my 2 cents worth.

[Sport/Truck]

Originally Posted by gavotter333

Just an update for everyone that is reading this thread.

As it stands at the moment. The push rod on the cylinder in question is not moving as far as its neighboring cylinders. I have not measured it accurately but it would seem like its a lobe on the cam that has worn. Its a very lumpy cam and with the oil issues that have existed this makes some sence. The introduction of the new oil may have cause this failure. I am unable and unwilling to start removing major components like the manifold to see what else is not working. It is going back to the shop in Bakersfield for this. There is enough evidence that its failed. Weather it be heads block whatever will only be discovered upon disassembley.

I have however been told that I am not going to get the same lumpy cam back in the new motor and it will be a little milder. I am not too unhappy about this. I trust that what ever is replaced will be just as exciting and if its not then I will use this motor in my next project with a 1975 Chevy 4X4 rock crawler and will put a totally obnoxious stroker in the 72.

However this will happen after a bare metal respray of the entire truck and me finishing up the total replacement of all the interior components.

When it is started it starts. Its a really lumpy cam so you only really know something is horribly wrong when you try to accelerate. If its not pushed it sounds like its misfiring like a spark lead is dead. If you push it harder it gets very very noisy and tappy indeed. I have not started it or driven it since removing the rocker cover. I am unwilling to tighten the rocker down to match the rod and unless it can see medical attention here 3 storys below the snow it will only be started to move it to the surface to be put on a flatbed.

I will track its progress through its GPS and will know exactly where it is and how fast it is moving. I will also keep everyone on here updated as to the progress. If I have time I might fly to Bakersfield and take a nice bottle of something horribly expensive to give to him when I get it back. Then it can be shipped to NY and I will continue to drive it. Or I might get him to drive it for a week or until he is happy with everything before I get it.

There is also a possibility that it might go to Virginia to a shop that is a friend of the family so to speak, However I think it will be on its way to CA for the engine work.

I really appreciate all the comments and helpful suggestions offered by member on here.

When all of this is over Ill let you know who the shop and builder is and ORDER away.

I will keep you all updated.

Do you have a lojack or something to track by?

[Skirkpat]

Glad you got it on the right track, nothing is worse than seeing your newly finished project sidelined. I built my first smallblock engine in 1987, I spent over 2,000 in machine work and parts alone, this did not include the intake, aluminum roller rockers or accesories that were already on the engine, another 400.00 to have the trans "Built" I threw it in a Turbo Regal that had a blown V-6 and a 3.42 posi track rear end , the third time I drove it, maybe 5 miles into the rebuild my best friend told me to punch it to see what it would do? The stall converter grabed at about 4,000 rpm, the front of the car went up,the back squated, and I broke the frame right in front of the axle....He cr@@@@pped his pants. I pulled my new engine and scrapped the car. We still joke about how fun that car was, even if it was only for 5 miles

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by Sport/Truck

Do you have a lojack or something to track by?

Not lojack, It relies on the police to bother to find it and by the time they have left the donut shop the truck will already be in bits. Its got realtime GPS. Now if I had a new car I would have nothing at all as I would never want it back if it was stolen however I want to know where this truck is at any time and if its stolen Ill know exactly where it is and every 5-8 sec it transmits its location. you can watch someone drive it in real time and see where they are and there speed. Pretty neat. My friends actually watched me drive over here. Creepy huh

There is 2.5k of rims and rubber in this puppy alone. Its fully insured however it took me 18 months to find it in the first place. I would rather not have to find another 72 longbed with factory AC and discs in such amazing condition.

I might tell everyone how the GPS works on another thread.

[ratpackv8sonly]

Just wanted to wish you luck with this. Been following this thread as well and am also curious of the results. I myself had a pricy 383 stroker go south due to an $8 part. Didnt make noise but I noticed a crazy amount of metal shavings in the oil during an oil change. Cost me another $2000 to get it back together. Bad part was the original machine shop blew me off saying I didnt break in the cam right. Made me a little mad at first as I have never done the came breakin bs in my life and I have been building engines for over 20 years. So after talking to several other shops I finally caught up with a friend of mine at his shop and he found the problem right away. Now this was the second time I was upset with this engine as it was a part I had over looked and the first shop over looked. Turned out that the oilfilter adapter was missing the bypas valve so when the oilfilter filled up with oil the rest would just pass through without going through the filter. wiped out all the bearings, cam, and a new crank.

[cleszkie]

I read this whole thread just waiting for him to check his oil and tell us if he found any metal. Practically everyone suggested it, but he never did it. I thought thats why he originally posted - to get help diagnosing the problem. I would have been way too curious not to have checked that oil for metal before shipping it back to Bakersfiled! I'm not trying to bust any balls here, just expressing my frustration while reading this thread

[texanidiot25]

Now we will be in KPH here but it use to almost get to 100 in second gear.

But 100kph is only 60mph..?

[Pont406]

Cleszkie,
That's what I thought also. He keeps rambling about on and on. Just my opinion.