S10 Swap how to

[Uncle Jimi]

Originally Posted by skymangs

Uncle Jimi; I use the stock S10 holes on the pedal bracket. I drill new holes on the underside of the pickup dash to bolt the pedal assembly through. I also use the same bolts to secure my fabricated drop bracket. Grey and black truck has 17x8's front and rear. I think the tire size was 225/50R17 front and 255/50R17 rear.

Ratty46, thank you. I've done Camaro stubs and custom triangulated 4 links as well. These are just the mainstay of my projects. Easy to accomplish, in-expensive, quick turn around. and very popular.

I hate to clutter your thread, but... THANKS!

[skymangs]

Someone asked about cutting the inner fenders. First I cut at the bottom wind line, front to rear (pic 1). Then I hold each inner up against the cab, and mark the area for the upper A frame. Then I cut that area up to the second wind line. That's it, this will clear the frame and A frames with both versions of my brackets.

Once it's all fit, I'll take a flap disk, and clean up my wobbly plasma cut lines.

[skymangs]

Let's move on to running board brackets. I start with 1.5" 11ga. square tube. I cut the front bracket to 10 inches. the rear 2 are 9.5" long (see attached PDF)

Once the lower brackets are cut, measure 1/2" in, centered, mark for your hole. Then measure 4 3/8" and mark center. These will be the holes for your running boards. I drill all the way through with a 9/32" bit (pic 1), then open them up to 1/4". Finally I use a 1" holesaw on the bottom side for nut/socket clearance (pic 2). Pic 3 shows them bolted to the bottom of the running board

[skymangs]

Next I mock the running board up, bolting the rear to the fender, and blocking below my new lower brackets. It's important to be sure that your board is on the same plane as your cab floor and bed rail! Also, check the gap between the splash guard and the back of the cab. should be about 3/8". The running board should be parallel to the bottom of the door from front to rear as well.

Once it's mocked up, I verify my templates fit between the lower bracket and the frame (pic 2 is of the templates). If this is your first build, you'll have to make them. I used strips of 1.5" poster board, then notched the lower end, and angled the upper end to match my frame.

Once your templates are made, trace them onto 1.5" square tube, cut them out, and fit them to the mocked up running board. I tack the lower side, then pull the board off to seam weld the joint (pic 3). Then re-mock up your running board, double check all the critical fitment areas, and weld your angled brackets to the frame. Finished product should look like pic 4. I just finished running boards on this truck yesterday, it's about a 4 hour process.

I buy a 20ft stick of 11ga. 1.5" steel, it's just right for 2 49.5" bed cross sills, and has enough left to finish the running boards as well. Cheers!

[skymangs]

Almost forgot... I don't buy those fancy bolt kits. Running boards go on with 1/4" x 1" carriage bolts, 1/4" washers, and nylock nuts (courtesy of Lowes).

[ratty 46]

If I can ask ... how many of these do you do each year?

[Uncle Jimi]

Looking good Skymangs. Where on the frame are you attaching the angled pieces? I thought most guys went parallel with the bottom of the frame, but looks like your shooting for about the middle?

[skymangs]

Ratty 46; I do these about 1 a month, probably 7 or 8 a year. I only do one at a time, and I don't do AD trucks "specifically", but they are the bulk of my projects.

Uncle Jimi, thanks. I like to weld about centermass on the vertical portion of the frame. My version 2 cab stands make the board a little two low for an "under frame" weld. My version 1 stands can go right to the bottom of the frame though.

[ratty 46]

I like the extra material used in the running board supports. Doubtful those will bend under the added weight of ... just about everything.

Didn't the originals involve some sort of "C" or "U" channel thin material?? Nice upgrade

I need to get one of these & drag it out to you along with my welder & a few pieces of equipment & build one with you side by side .... ya just invited myself.

[skymangs]

Ratty 46; Thank you, the originals are 14ga. They are U shaped and integrate a 45 degree angle. I like to transpose rock crawler building technique with my rods. The strength is in the shape, not the thickness of the steel. In a crawler, triangulation is king. That's why we gusset roll cage joints, and weld angled secondary bars everywhere.

Well played on inviting yourself...

[ratty 46]

I dig the triangulation program ... been there done that ... I was impressed with the thoughts behind your simple, but effective, upgrades.

Ya - I figured you'd like the self invite thing!! BTW - what's the guest bedroom like?

[skymangs]

In the basement... drywalls up, but still needs tape and mud... LoL

[ratty 46]

Might have to just keep watch'n for now. Trying myself to finish a update on a chassis car to 7.0's. By the time I'm done & body remounted it'd probably be to cold out your way for me ...

Any updates?

[skymangs]

Sorry, I've been out of town for a few days.

I can't think of anything else that needs to be covered, This thread paralleled my current build, so at this point we should have a completed project. If anyone has any questions, or would like me to cover anything else, please don't hesitate to ask.

Just finishing up a '48 for a Customer. I'll post a pic or two tonight.

[iowaboynca]

Nice job! Even though i'm using the original frame, I always enjoy reading your builds. They are very detailed and thought out. Thanks again for the info and good job.

[skymangs]

Thanks Iowaboynca. I enjoy building these immensely.

[49bourbon]

Skymangs thanks for showing all the details of the build. Can you show the dimensions on the paper templates for the running board supports and how when finished you attach the to the frame. I am build a 46 dodge on 83 frame so this has been a great help. Right now the running boards have been kicking my tail on how to get them stout enough not to flex. I understand the measurements will be different but want to get your experience in attaching to frame.

[skymangs]

I'll take some measurements and see if I can dig up a pic or two of the attachment to the frame. I basically bevel the 11ga. 1.5" square tube to match the side of the frame, then seam weld all 4 sides. Boxed welds are much less susceptible flex, and the bevel gives you a longer vertical weld, adding even more strength. My running boards have zero flex in them.

[MARTINSR]

You guys all know of my distaste for this "swap", sorry, I am old school and feel the original frame is the best to modify.

That all being said, this thread is awesome and it shows how to do the S-10 frame right and it also does show that it isn't a "swap" bolt in type project either, but very do-able.

Excellent job Skymangs!

Brian

[TypeSL2]

This thread rocks. Thanks so much for taking time out of your day to document all the steps in this very long project. I was just talking to a buddy who was thinking of picking up a truck to do this too. I have got to show him this now.

James

[fine69]

I just bought a 89 S10 tonight for my Panel swap. Heck yea!!!!!!

[skymangs]

Thank you all. Before my first AD build (my son's truck) I began looking for information on how to do this. I was sorely disappointed at how un-willing people were in general to give out information, and wound up with a lot of trial and error. I just thought it would be nice for someone else to have a quick reference guide, (at least from one perspective).

In the end, the problem most of my customers have to face is a realistic budget. It's much easier (and cheaper) to find a farm truck cab than a true 3100, S10's are everywhere, and can be picked up for a song, and they can be proud of their freshly finished "Patina" truck at shows with a total investment of less than 10K. Seems like a winning combination to us middle-classers...

[skymangs]

I almost forgot. Somewhere near the beginning of this thread, I was asked to discuss wiring harness options. Basically there are 3 in my book.

1. If you are retaining the S10 4.3L with TBI, I use the stock S10 harness and ECM. Be sure you label everything before you unplug it if you aren't familiar enough with the harness to recognize the connectors.

IMPORTANT! BE SURE YOU ARE USING A KNOWN SYSTEM! In other words, before you dis-mantle the S10, be sure to drive it and identify, diagnose, and repair any electrical issues prior to the swap. Diagnosing electrical gremlins on a harness after it's been apart and flexed, and moved around and re-connected is NO FUN!

Using the S10 harness is pretty straight forward. I mount the ECM behind the glove box (above the stock heater box). I run the ECM harness though the firewall on the right side of the engine. All the engine connectors will be re-used. The wiper plug can be removed, delete all the wires but the switched power, then lengthen it to run it into the cab. I've built 4.3L trucks that still have the factory ABS and cruise control even (note: to have the cruise control function, you need the S10 brake light switch).

I also delete the courtesy lights (under dash) and remove the stupid key in/lights on buzzer. The dash cluster plug is a pain, but pin-outs are available on the internet. See attached Pin-out for 83-93 S10's. Obviously the oil, temp, and voltmeter wires are the sending unit wires for aftermarket gauges, the left/right turn, bright ind. and SES wires must be hooked to individual lamps, etc. If you do not have basic wiring proficiency, do not attempt this! get professional help.

[skymangs]

Option 2: If you are going the small block route. I WILL not build a truck without a new body harness. I've seen way to many engine fires from hacked up, worn out, corroded connections, re-purposed harnesses!

One harness I prefer to use for a basic truck is the EZ wiring 12 circuit mini fuse harness. For the cost, you can't get a better harness. If you plan on power seats, windows, locks, door poppers, etc. then the 21 circuit harness is for you. Installing a full harness is not for the faint of heart. It takes me 10-14 hours for a harness install, and I do them all the time. Do not cut corners, solder/heat shrink all your connections. Also, be sure you use the worksheet if you decide to re-purpose any of the circuits. It will save you lots of headache if you ever need to diagnose an issue later.

I start by laying the harness out on the bench and going through it wire by wire. Deleting wires I won't be using (i.e. temp/oil sender wires if I'm using mechanical gauges) and accounting for every accessory BEFORE I try to install it. I also use this as an opportunity to re-route any wires (dome light power from taillight section to dash section, etc.) Once that's done, I zip tie my 4 basic sections together. Engine, Headlight, taillight, and dash. Then I begin routing each group. I work one section at a time, starting with the dash section (specifically ignition switch), when that section is done, I move on to the next.

[skymangs]

Option 3: LS1 builds, you have the most fun ahead of you! Not only do you need to re-work the stock driveline harness to stand-alone, but you will also need a new 12 circuit body harness!

If you are looking for detailed information on LS1 pin-outs, harnesses, etc. the site for you is LT1swap.com No one has a more detailed instruction manual for these. You can also send your PCM to him for programming. He does an outstanding job.

Be prepared for tedious work. An LS1 harness takes me about 15 hours to re-work. I hide all the wires under the intake to keep the motor looking as clean as possible.