Did a lil work on the 71 today.......pics

[Sicmaro]

Scanned my paper work and protecto plate finally. figured I should have a digital copy of them also.......

[onlyifihadachevy]

he 72blazercst your truck was done in big bear right, but i have the same paperwork from my 72 gmc that soon be a chevy

[mcbassin]

Just got through your 5.3 swap.....WOW! you made it look like a weekend swap. I want to do this swap on my son's 69 but I'm not too sure about the wiring. I'm not interested in paying someone to build the harness if I can avoid it. You said it was pretty straight forward, "just go wire by wire". That sounds easier said than done. I noticed you put a lot of the components in the glove box area, where did you put the fuse box from the donor? did you use it? I have seen some guys put the PCM and the fuse box outside like the donor truck, whats your thoughts on this? I assume you are still driving it daily, how did you do your speedo? how is the gas mileage? sorry for all the questions,
Mike

[Sicmaro]

Originally Posted by mcbassin

Just got through your 5.3 swap.....WOW! you made it look like a weekend swap. I want to do this swap on my son's 69 but I'm not too sure about the wiring. I'm not interested in paying someone to build the harness if I can avoid it. You said it was pretty straight forward, "just go wire by wire". That sounds easier said than done. I noticed you put a lot of the components in the glove box area, where did you put the fuse box from the donor? did you use it? I have seen some guys put the PCM and the fuse box outside like the donor truck, whats your thoughts on this? I assume you are still driving it daily, how did you do your speedo? how is the gas mileage? sorry for all the questions,
Mike

didn't use the fuse panel from the donor. That thing is way to bulky and un-needed. Once you delete all the wiring you don't need i just used inline fuses. I wanted it inside so it didn't clutter the engine bay. still drive it often. drove it daily for awhile just bought a new charger....... no speedo. using my gps to collect mileage data it was 16 mpg. not to bad.

[CUSTOM_1O]

is that motor all stock ??? and if so how much hp you think it is and whats your mpg???

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by Sicmaro

didn't use the fuse panel from the donor. That thing is way to bulky and un-needed. Once you delete all the wiring you don't need i just used inline fuses. I wanted it inside so it didn't clutter the engine bay. still drive it often. drove it daily for awhile just bought a new charger....... no speedo. using my gps to collect mileage data it was 16 mpg. not to bad.

Well I have purchased a 5.3 and am trying to get everything it will take to get install the engine in my sons 69. Just curious if you are interested in building me a harness and programming the pcm for me cheap? thanks,
Mike

[Stepsides 4Ever]

The factory wiring thing is not too bad if you label each connector as you disconnect it. A factory manual is a great resource here and well worth the expense, IMHO...one for the donor vehicle, and one for the recipient vehicle.

It looks like Sicmaro extended his wiring with taped splices. The best way to do this is, IMHO, is to solder the splices, put a dab of RTV on the soldered connection and then cover it with heat shrink tubing. You will then have a near perfect mechanical connection that is both vibration proof and weatherproof. If you go to the trouble and expense of buying wire that is the correct type, color, and size (gauge) for the extensions, it will make troubleshooting much easier down the road as well as making a much neater job of it.

There is not a whole lot to the electrical system in our trucks, relatively speaking...it may be better to use the fuse panel from the later model donor and tie the truck wiring into it. That way you have the extra electrical circuits that you need and the later fuses that are so much easier to work with.

As far as programming the PCM, up until the early '90s GM used a memcal (calpak) that plugged into the ECM. An erasable/programmable EPROM was soldered into the memcal. You could erase and re-program the EPROM without removing it from the memcal, but many people removed the EPROM and replaced it with either an emulator or a ZIF socket to avoid having to take the memcal in and out for re-programming. In the mid-90s, GM did away with the memcal and soldered a surface mount "flash" chip on the PCM itself. It is possible to flash this chip in place, but if anything goes wrong, the repair cost to have the chip replaced can be a couple hundred bucks. Some people remove the chip and put a socket in its place for this reason.

As for the speedo issue, in the mid-90s the 4L60E used a 40-pulse per revolution sensor in the transmission that goes to a DRAC (Digital Ratio Adapter Controller) that converted and conditioned the signal to output to the PCM, the cruise control, and the electronic speedo. There are many DRAC P/Ns, each one calibrated to the particular rear end ratio and tire size. Some people have modded the DRAC with a DIP switch to allow calibration to their particular vehicle, but the bottom line is that you will need to run an electronic speedo (and DRAC) with the 4L60E.

All of this programming and electrical stuff is time-consuming, not to mention having to have the right tools to work with...if you have someone else do it, and you have problems with it, like the PCM keeps throwing error codes, who is going to have to fix it?

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by Stepsides 4Ever

The factory wiring thing is not too bad if you label each connector as you disconnect it. A factory manual is a great resource here and well worth the expense, IMHO...one for the donor vehicle, and one for the recipient vehicle.

It looks like Sicmaro extended his wiring with taped splices. The best way to do this is, IMHO, is to solder the splices, put a dab of RTV on the soldered connection and then cover it with heat shrink tubing. You will then have a near perfect mechanical connection that is both vibration proof and weatherproof. If you go to the trouble and expense of buying wire that is the correct type, color, and size (gauge) for the extensions, it will make troubleshooting much easier down the road as well as making a much neater job of it.

There is not a whole lot to the electrical system in our trucks, relatively speaking...it may be better to use the fuse panel from the later model donor and tie the truck wiring into it. That way you have the extra electrical circuits that you need and the later fuses that are so much easier to work with.

As far as programming the PCM, up until the early '90s GM used a memcal (calpak) that plugged into the ECM. An erasable/programmable EPROM was soldered into the memcal. You could erase and re-program the EPROM without removing it from the memcal, but many people removed the EPROM and replaced it with either an emulator or a ZIF socket to avoid having to take the memcal in and out for re-programming. In the mid-90s, GM did away with the memcal and soldered a surface mount "flash" chip on the PCM itself. It is possible to flash this chip in place, but if anything goes wrong, the repair cost to have the chip replaced can be a couple hundred bucks. Some people remove the chip and put a socket in its place for this reason.

As for the speedo issue, in the mid-90s the 4L60E used a 40-pulse per revolution sensor in the transmission that goes to a DRAC (Digital Ratio Adapter Controller) that converted and conditioned the signal to output to the PCM, the cruise control, and the electronic speedo. There are many DRAC P/Ns, each one calibrated to the particular rear end ratio and tire size. Some people have modded the DRAC with a DIP switch to allow calibration to their particular vehicle, but the bottom line is that you will need to run an electronic speedo (and DRAC) with the 4L60E.

All of this programming and electrical stuff is time-consuming, not to mention having to have the right tools to work with...if you have someone else do it, and you have problems with it, like the PCM keeps throwing error codes, who is going to have to fix it?

Thanks for all that info! Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of removing my connectors because my harness came in a basket (literally)Here.
Do you know someone that reprograms these pcms affordably? A lot companies are doing it but they want more than I gave for the motor to do it.
About the wiring, I always use solder joints with heat shrink when it's practical. (sometimes you have to fix them out in the woods).

Mike

[Stepsides 4Ever]

I don't have the luxury of removing my connectors because my harness came in a basket (literally)Here.

Should not be a problem, with a factory manual for the donor vehicle that the powertrain came out of. The color coding of the wiring, the wire size, where it goes and what it does, it's all in there.

Do you know someone that reprograms these pcms affordably? A lot companies are doing it but they want more than I gave for the motor to do it.

No, I don't know that there is anybody out there willing to do that. Some people that have tried that already have found out the hard way that there are just too many things that can go wrong, and that a major source of the headache is dealing with someone (usually via long-distance) who has no idea whatsoever of what he is doing.

The easiest way for a first-timer to do this is to transplant everything that is PCM-related to the recipient vehicle, and make the PCM think that it is still in the original vehicle. Obviously, transplanting the catalytic converter(s) into a vehicle that never had one is a seriously dangerous thing and shouldn't be attempted because of the heat shielding required, so right off the bat you can be reasonably certain that the air-fuel ratio will be off, but the PCM can compensate for that if it's not too far off. But if you plan on doing without the air pump and EGR and running headers and Flow Masters, or just about anything else significant, you are likely putting things 'way beyond what the PCM can compensate for, and now you are going to have to fiddle with the fueling and possibly the timing to get it to run right. I seriously doubt that you will find anyone who will say that they can dial it in for you right out of the box...there are just too many variables involved.

What is the number of the PCM you plan on running? Does it use a memcal or the flash chip?

[Stepsides 4Ever]

I just got done glancing briefly through your build thread, and there is a major point that you may or may not already be aware of...

Everything that is known about the factory ECM/PCMs began with someone sitting down and writing a hack (or hac), which is a commented disassembly of the machine code. There has never been any factory involvement or disclosure or help in any way, shape or form...everything has come from some very dedicated and hard-working people reverse-engineering the ECMs. From there, once the hack became available, more dedicated and hard-working people wrote the software, masks and/or definition files for the various ECMs that were hacked, to allow easier editing by anyone with the wherewithal to give it a try.

The early EFI's ('80s and early '90s) were relatively unsophisticated but still contained thousands and thousands of lines of machine code. Of course, as the OEMs developed the ECMs over the years, and with millions of dollars spent on R&D, the later ECMs became faster, more refined and even more "intelligent", handling more duties like transmission control, and added many, many more lines of code to the software. To make things more daunting, the instruction sets of the early microprocessors were made public by the chip makers, or some close relatives of the ECM microprocessors were publicly available so assumptions could be made, but as the new processors came along, that information was no longer publicly disclosed.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around this stuff, so this is how I understand it, but what I want to tell you is that only the more popular ECM/PCMs have been hacked...you may or may not have one of them. At the very least, to re-program any given ECM, you will need a mask and/or a definition file for your particular ECM, and if it isn't available, you are pretty much SOL with re-programming that ECM. From there, though, you might be able to find an ECM that has the requisite files available and is close to what you have, and possibly you can re-pin your wiring harness to suit...

[prin]

So, will the speedometer even work? are you saying that if you do one of these swaps, you will have to get an electrical speedo and not use your factory speedo?

[LEEVON]

For the speedo you can:

1) get an aftermarket electric speedometer for use with your 4L60e
2) get a "cable x" converter box that drives a cable from an input signal about $300
2) use a 700R4 with a cable driven speedometer (my preference) retaining stock gauges.
3) get a 4L60e cable driven conversion tailshaft $$$$ which is $600 or more

[Stepsides 4Ever]

2) use a 700R4 with a cable driven speedometer (my preference) retaining stock gauges.

Even with the 700R4, the PCM is still going to want to see the 40 pulse-per-rev Vehicle Speed Sensor. Of course, you can "fool" it into thinking it is in Park/Neutral all the time, which (I'm told) causes other problems. The 700R4 can also be retro-fitted with the 40PPR sensor, or the sensor can be added to the rear end, but you are still likely to end up with a whole lot of unused inputs/outputs which can cause other headaches, some minor, some not. If you're up to speed on this stuff, which I'm not, maybe you can deal with the issues that crop up.

For myself, I've got a running 5.7L TPI engine and 700R4 out of a '91 Z-28. I was thinking of changing out the 1227730 ECM in favor of a 16197427 TBI PCM, and I started looking at the wiring changes that would be necessary. There would be a bunch of unused inputs and outputs on the TBI PCM for the electronic tranny which I don't know what to do with, so the easiest route for me would be to just transplant what I have and make it all work like it was still in the Z-28. That's enough of a challenge for an EFI noob like me that is just trying to get his feet wet without drowning, I think.

[LEEVON]

VSS, easy like Sunday mornin':

http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Spe...eedometer.html

You can also program the ECM to think it's running a manual trans.

[eagleuh1]

Go to LS1Tech.com . Lots of people can help you there. I've done the swap with a 2005 5.3 and 4L60E into a 96 S10 Blazer using the Fuse block from the Suburban donor. Very easy swap. Just break it down into smaller chunks to understand each wiring section. You can go to AllData.com for wiring schematics and diagrams. Small fee, worth it too. My 5.3 is coming out soon to go into my 68 C20 so I can get better milage and towing power. Good luck with your swap. Jim

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by LEEVON

For the speedo you can:

1) get an aftermarket electric speedometer for use with your 4L60e
2) get a "cable x" converter box that drives a cable from an input signal about $300
2) use a 700R4 with a cable driven speedometer (my preference) retaining stock gauges.
3) get a 4L60e cable driven conversion tailshaft $$$$ which is $600 or more

Just curious if you can use a stock 350 turbo fooling the PCM to think it's a manual tranny? I know the gas mileage would be way better with the O/D tranny. Just curious if it will mount up to the flexplate and drive with over reving the engine? I suppose with the right gears in the diff. it might work?

Mike

[Stepsides 4Ever]

VSS, easy like Sunday mornin':

http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Spe...eedometer.html

Yeah, I know, I bought his book. He says the same thing about making the ECM think it is still in it's original vehicle.

You can also program the ECM to think it's running a manual trans.

So how is that supposed to work with the lockup torque converter? I know, some guys put a switch on the dash, or go the extra step and put a temperature switch in the cooling system in series with the dash switch so that it won't lockup with a cold engine, and then take another step and wire that into the brake switch so that when you step on the brake it unlocks, so yeah, it can be done. And you might drive it that way for awhile and then go buy a new Charger like this guy did.

Go to LS1Tech.com . Lots of people can help you there. I've done the swap with a 2005 5.3 and 4L60E into a 96 S10 Blazer using the Fuse block from the Suburban donor. Very easy swap. Just break it down into smaller chunks to understand each wiring section. You can go to AllData.com for wiring schematics and diagrams. Small fee, worth it too. My 5.3 is coming out soon to go into my 68 C20 so I can get better milage and towing power. Good luck with your swap. Jim

I think we can all agree that anything will go into anything, given enough time and enough money, but some folks have problems with computers and wiring and electrical stuff in general, and that's what EFI is all about. So if you are going to choke because you no longer have a mechanical speedo, maybe EFI is not the best way for you to go, that's all I'm sayin'.

[Stepsides 4Ever]

Just curious if you can use a stock 350 turbo fooling the PCM to think it's a manual tranny? I know the gas mileage would be way better with the O/D tranny. Just curious if it will mount up to the flexplate and drive with over reving the engine? I suppose with the right gears in the diff. it might work?

Look, I gotta question why you want to go with EFI. Is it the coolness factor? Carburetted engines have been around just about forever, and the only reason EFI was even developed was so that the auto makers could meet ever increasing emissions standards. Most of the mileage gains come from the O/D transmissions and lockup torque converters, so if you are going to eliminate that, why bother?

[mcbassin]

So sorry for Hijacking your thread Sicmaro! Please get this back on track. I know you bought a new Charger and are driving the tires off of it so tell us you are still driving the bada$$ yellow 71? at least weekly to church on Sunday? to pick up groceries? I love the way you took the stuff you had laying around and made your truck a driver. It is the main reason I decided to go that route on my Sons 69 project. Please take over from here. BTW if you are sick of the yellow truck I would like to be first in line to buy it! thanks,
Mike

[Stepsides 4Ever]

Yeah, me too (about hijacking the thread). My apologies.

[Shon]

use the computer that is correct for that motor, you will be very happy.

I am using the Abbot box but you do not have to have the VSS to run a Th350/400700R4, we do this all the time in the jeeps/trucks.

Let me know if I can help. (see link in sig with my swap)

[Thealien]

Great build thanks for linking it to the other thread. Is that your factory radiator? Did you force the factory hoses on? I know our inlets and outlets are about 1/4 inch bigger than the LS hoses.

What hose is that going into your TB with that little bend in it? Looks great and I might want to copy it.

[echo72]

Nice truck. Did you have to do anything special to bolt the engine up?

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by echo72

Nice truck. Did you have to do anything special to bolt the engine up?

He did have to modify the engine mounts, look at the 5,6 picture HERE

[Sicmaro]

Got another seat, The 00+ seat was comfortable but didn't fit the truck the way I wanted. So I picked up a 93 60/40 bench. Cleaned up the cab, installed new carpet and painted the sill plate's black.