Suspend "Cash For Clunkers"?

[MacAttack]

Almost puked up my dinner watching the news and the guy pouring the death solution into the running engine and a few moments later seeing it cease.

I can almost understand the destruction of engines with lousy gas mileage (almost), but why do they have to kill the transmissions too?

Mac.

[watahyahknow]

i was wondering ...... do the cars need to be complete to be turned in for the cash for clunkers program ...........like do they have to have an engine

[MacAttack]

Appendix B to Part 599 – Engine Disablement Procedures for the CARS Note: The below procedures are for information only as a required process, you do not need to submit the document as part of the transaction process.

Engine Disablement Procedures for the CARS Program

THIS PROCEDURE IS NOT TO BE USED BY THE VEHICLE OWNER

Perform the following procedure to disable the vehicle engine. .

1. Obtain solution of 40% sodium silicate/60% water. (The Sodium Silicate (SiO2/Na2O) must have a weight ratio of 3.0 or greater.)

2. Drain engine oil for environmentally appropriate disposal.

3. Install the oil drain plug.

4. Since the procedure is intended to render the engine inoperative, drive or move the vehicle to the desired area for disablement.

5. Pour enough solution in the engine through the oil fill for the oil pump to circulate the solution throughout the engine. Start by adding 2 quarts of the solution, which should be sufficient in most cases. CAUTION: Wear goggles and gloves. Appropriate protective clothing should be worn to prevent silicate solution from coming into contact with the skin.

6. Replace the oil fill cap.

7. Start the engine.

8. Run engine at approximately 2000 rpm (for safety reasons do not operate at high rpm) until the engine stops. (Typically the engine will operate for 3 to 7 minutes. As the solution starts to affect engine operation, the operator will have to apply more throttle to keep the engine at 2000 rpm.)

9. Allow the engine to cool for at least 1 hour.

10. With the battery at full charge or with auxiliary power to provide the power of a fully charged battery, attempt to start the engine.

11. If the engine will not operate at idle, the procedure is complete.

12. If the engine will operate at idle, repeat steps 7 through 11 until the engine will no longer idle.

13. Attach a label to the engine that legibly states the following: This engine is from a vehicle that is part of the Car Allowance Rebate System (CARS). It has significant internal damage caused by operating the engine with a sodium silicate solution (liquid glass) instead of oil.

14. File this document in the file for the new vehicle purchase.

[panhandler62]

Originally Posted by Blue_71

DING DING DING DING DING!!!

this is EXACTLY how i feel. how did we get in such bad shape? people taking out loans on houses that they could not afford... so, what do we do... lets convince people to take out loans on cars they cant afford!!! wow great idea there.....

I fail to see your thread of logic. A person wants to finance the balance of the new car cost after trades, rebates etc. so they have to qualify for that loan.

How does the size of the rebate change their ability to qualify for the loan other than giving thenm a better ltv? 12 thousands dollars is 12 thousand dollars whether the cost before rebates is 13,500 or 39,000. It is the amount financed that the payments will be based on (and they should get a better interest rate if their ltv is lower.)

[Liz]

qualifying for a loan, and being able to afford the said loan, are two totally different things.

[Blue_71]

yes a person does have to qualify for a loan, but just because a person qualifies does not mean they can afford the loan. it is not near as hard to get a loan as the media makes it seem right now. the people who are upside down in housing qualified for loans, yet they are still losing there homes.

this program is meant to stimulate the new car industry. to me that says people are not trying to take out a loan unless they are offered this incentive. that is why i say "lets convince them to take out car loans they cant afford". MANY people who have came in the shop that i have talked to flat out admitted they couldnt really afford the loan but they couldnt pass up the chance to get $4500 for their "clunker" that wasnt worth $1000

[Shane]

Originally Posted by panhandler62

I fail to see your thread of logic.

The same logic was used to get people with $50,000 a year incomes qualified for $500,000 mortgages.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

...what happens when "they" see car sales take a total **** for September?

If it takes $4500 and dealer incentives to get people to buy cars...

I don't own anything that meets their requirements. All my rides are paid for... for now

[leddzepp]

How exactly are you "qualified" to receive a new car loan?

[panhandler62]

Originally Posted by Liz

qualifying for a loan, and being able to afford the said loan, are two totally different things.

That is, unfortunetely, true, but CARS doesn't change that one way or the other.

[panhandler62]

Originally Posted by Shane

The same logic was used to get people with $50,000 a year incomes qualified for $500,000 mortgages.

Apples and oranges.

Subprime loans can be offered or refused with absolutely no regard to rebates, incentives or the borrowed amount.

[Shane]

Originally Posted by panhandler62

Apples and oranges.

Subprime loans can be offered or refused with absolutely no regard to rebates, incentives or the borrowed amount.

That's just simply not true. But nice attempt at a thread derail none the less.

I will not reply further to this point. Any further reply by me will be interpreted as the beginning of a pissing match by some and I have made promises that would prevent me from participating in such.

[panhandler62]

You argue like my ex-wife, but you are correct on this point; it's going to slide off into an area that shouldn't be discussed in this forum.

CARS isn't perfect but it is working well to stimulate auto sales. As there always have and always will be -- some percentage of buyers over-reach and financing companies let them do it.

You can argue that people are more inclined to make the stretch but then with the lower price and the better loan terms the improved LTV will net them, they are negotiating loans that are more favorable than they would be otherwise.

The consumers, dealers and manufacturers are all making out on this deal. The negative impacts are primarily on scrap prices and late model used car sales of models similar to the popular new cars being purchased. Environmentaly; it's pretty much a wash. The gas saved probably doesn't overcome the impact of building more cars, but then we *want* to be building more new cars right now anyway, don't we?

[kingsolver72]

Originally Posted by panhandler62

You argue like my ex-wife,

Thats cheap shot..not sure if it is an attempt to bait shane back in after he said he wanted to avoid a pissin match.

[leddzepp]

If I bought a new car, it would be financed with my money anyways....so why not just give me the car?

[El Jay]

Go ahead & get a new car, Scott.
Just tell 'em, "My ol' pal LJ is buying it for me."; which I would be.

[big_al_71]

All I can say is that we are tracking over 300 new cars this month and I cant wait for my commission check this month. I have salesmen that already have 20 units out for this month so far.


Get rid of all these pieces of junk off the road and come get your new efficient new vehicle!!!!!

[panhandler62]

Shane and I know how to take each other (and.. usualy.. where the limits are.)

If I wanted to bait him I would buy him some M&Ms....

[78 Chevyrado]

Basically it will mean that by the time the 3 billion is exhaust more than 750,000 vehicles will be destroyed instead of going into the used car market for the poorer families who need used cars. This will make the prices of all used cars go UP.

All this CARS stuff is doing is getting people to buy cars who could have bought them anyway.

Just remember this: HITLER brought change to Germany too.

[kingsolver72]

I was just sayin..

[Longhorn Man]

keep the political mud slinging down, anything considered too far is an automatic 24 hr vacation. There's been some quality talk on this thread, one person's comments may well lock it up and alll other CARS threads. Don't be the turn in the punch bowl.

[Longhorn Man]

People with good jobs, and job security don't quite understand the impact of this ecinomic down turn. Just becouse everything is well in your work place, doesn't mean all is well. The "can't see it from my house" mentality should not be used right now.

more than 750,000 vehicles will be destroyed

The fact of the matter is, this also means there are 750,000 vehicles being sold. Think about that for a moment. Detroit, and everyone downstream have been hurting BIG TIME. Look at the dealerships that have closed. There's a chevy dealer here in town, has been around since the 30's. They'll be closed down, they got that letter in the mail.
besides all this, all the crying of "my money" doesn't matter. We have no say.

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

all the crying of "my money" doesn't matter. We have no say.

Exactly...but we SHOULD have a say. Since I do have a say as to where the money in my wallet goes, the only thing it is ever going to "bail out" is a jailed friend; I guarantee you it will never go to a car dealership.

[robin58]

Originally Posted by leddzepp

Exactly...but we SHOULD have a say. Since I do have a say as to where the money in my wallet goes, the only thing it is ever going to "bail out" is a jailed friend; I guarantee you it will never go to a car dealership.

You do have a say: it's called election time. If you don't like what your senator or congressman did, don't vote for him. But at the end of the day we can't expect to all be micromanaging how the government spends our tax dollars. What would you want? A vote each time something gets spent? You'll never please everyone with how tax dollars are spent. While being anti-bailouts in general, as pointed out above by Longhorn Man one simply cannot ignore the impact of selling 750,000 vehicles. And also let us not forget this is one of the few times there are no income stipulations nor is it a gimmick tax credit applied against what you owe. This bailout on the surface appears to be one that aids the automotive industry, the dealers, the finance companies and the buyers. Everyone can shoot holes in a program or decry spending yet more. However in reality $3B in this instance probably has had a greater net effect than any other expenditure so far.

[leddzepp]

[QUOTE=robin58;3453028]You do have a say: it's called election time. QUOTE]

More fairy tales have begun with "When I am elected" than "Once upon a time"