70 C-20 4x4 Suburban Father/Son project

[justcuz]

Glad to hear it! So many people feel those Eaton rear axles and the external hub Dana 44's are junk and just send them to the recycler. Actually Eatons have a small but loyal following and the external hub Dana 44's do not all have the odd bearing size many think they do. Both are good usable axles and I am glad to hear you did not junk them.

I really like the stance of you new springs, actually I liked it stock too. Lots of folks lift more than needed. I am of the school to lift as little as possible to get the job done. I do realize Nicks is a couple inches taller do to the mounts on the Dana 60 and the clearance needed for his Cummins, but I see trucks lifted as high as Nicks needlessly a lot.

My logic for minimal lift? It goes back many years and revolves around wind.
I was returning from a trip to Jawbone Canyon in my 1976 Chevy 3/4 ton 4x4.
It had a 4" lift and 36" tires on it. It was windy and a gust got under the truck and moved me over one lane of traffic! Luckily I was in the fast lane and had another lane to get pushed in to! Otherwise I would have been out in the desert. Once those tires wore out I removed the lift and replaced it with 3 leaf 1 ton front springs and had the rears re-arched. This gave me about a 2" lift which cleared my new 12:00x16.5 tires just fine. Several more trips to Jawbone and through the desert never revealed the instability in the wind I had with the old lift and tires. The reduction in lift from 4" to 2" and the reduction in tire size from 36" to 32" lowered the truck 5" to 6" and made it much more stable.

Lastly driving a Suburban in a windstorm is kind of like driving a houseboat across a lake in the wind. You are guiding more than steering it.

[1leglance]

Well Nick (mosesburb) and I got the rig together and it was high time for a shake down run. Funny thing is his birthday and mine are about a week apart so what better way to celebrate than drag our families out for some dirt time.

As with all great outings there was plenty of tarmac time, of which I gladly did not take a pic of. I will say that the 700r4 made a big difference in cruising comfort. I still travel about 65mph but it is so much nicer now.

Our first stop was in Tombstone....yeah it is touristy but the courthouse museum is worth a visit and you can bypass all the silly stuff in town.
At least we parked in dirt to start the trip off right


I am a sucker for this vintage wood furniture, America had some style back then.


Pre-interweb days when you might actually look something up in a book and had no spell check, or copy & paste to help with typing your work. I love the desk though.


I think all courtrooms should have this sense of style and authority vs our modern cheap & sterile county courtrooms.
Just imagine the wild trials heard in this Tombstone room.


Even growing up in the Panhandle of Texas you forget how many different types of barbed wire were around. It must of been a hoot to listen to a salesman expound of the virtures of his product vs anothers back in the day.

[1leglance]

And after a lunch of Bufflo Burgers and other hearty fix'ns we got out of town and hit some dirt on the way to Gleeson. Some houses in the area still in use, and there is an effort to steer more tourist this way....that is always a good & bad thing.

The new springs & Fox shocks with Fox hydralic front bumpstops are amazing. I didn't air down for this gravel/washboard as I knew we would not spend much time on dirt but I would say I can double my safe driving speed and much less overall stress on the rig.


Restored jail and picnic area...cheesy but kinda cool


The old school is my favorite building in the area...lots of style there.


I like the use of hoist cable as rebar...hey use what ya got.


The master mechanic who made the project move right along pokes his head out for a peak.

[RANDY COX]

would be an Ideal place to metal detect....

[justcuz]

I see you installed another external hub Dana 44 with warn hubs. Did the other one not have disc brakes? What gear ratios do your new axles have?
I looked back through the thread and somehow missed what the new seats are out of. They look like maybe import car seats. How about a shot of your upgraded brake pedal?

Trip looks fun, I have not been to tombstone since I was 16.

[1leglance]

Original axle had spicer hubs and drum brakes....after all the work Nick-mosesburb put into my rig it will just about stand on it's nose

I am pretty sure I am 4.10 in the axles with ARB lockers front & rear...just need to hook those up.

Thanks for the reminder on the new pedal...for a guy with a fake leg like me it is amazing the difference a brake pedal can make

The seats are out of some mini-van...not sure but they are always on craigslist for $40 here in Phx, the fold flat feature is a huge advantage for the rear sleeping platform and even as the front seats just to make moving around the rig easy.

I have plenty more pics to post including some closeups of the sleep setup, suspension, and more of the trip.

[1leglance]

Due to the extra time we had spent along the way we got into Bisbee a bit late in the afternoon/eve to really see or do much...unless we wanted to roll into camp about o'dark thirty.
So we made a call to head out to find camp and come back to walk the town/mining museum in the am. And here is the mountain top camp we found.


Happy wife, happy life....yeah she likes the rig much better now and soon we will be trying out the new sleep platform. No pics of that though.


Nick also has a great setup and his family always seems to enjoy the outdoors. However as his son grows Nick will have to get really creative for all 3 to sleep in the rig or get that kid hooked on hammocks/tents.


I am really loving my FrontRunner Table, it is light wgt enough to stow on my roof rack with ease yet strong enough to hold double my camp kitchen. We had a killer view while enjoying dinner. Even late into the night the overlook of Bisbee and Sierra Vista was nice.

[Bigdav160]

Love the action shots.

It motivates me to get mine road worthy again.

[1leglance]

Morning rolled around too soon, I sleep really well camping and even with some overnight rain it was a good night. I will say the wet actually shows what Nick's rig looked like back in the day....maybe he should consider paint....hahahahahaha


Lest anyone think the rebuilt rig is too fancy for me to get out and enjoy....well I did get some decent desert pinstripping on this outing. The suspension really articulated well through some nice ruts (not shown here)


"Come'on Nick let's go"....yeah I was having a great time, and I am not even a morning person


Overlook of Bisbee.....looked nicer at night


The Mule Pass area we were in really is the local Mecca for strange homes...there were some crazy designs and self built projects out there.


I have no idea what the sombero hat party area or hobbit house behind it were all about but at least we got some good radio chatter out of seeing them.


Flip a boat over and call that a house design....I have no idea

[1leglance]

Sorry for the delay in finishing this trip report....life, oh how it gets in the way

So we were coming down the mountain Sunday morning heading into Bisbee, checking out the "I can design stranger house than you" development and I realized how lucky I am to have quality people to help me build my rig and then hit the trail with. Our families get along, our values run close enough to keep the campfire chatter entertaining and we can razz each other without anyone getting their panties in a twist
Oh and Nick has a pretty cool rig also


Mule Pass used the be the route into Bisbee and the poor mules had a serious grade to overcome bringing mine ore to the smelter. This structure was a bit left over from the old old.


And lest anyone think I went to all the trouble of making my burb pretty and then became scared of playing the dirt.....my first desert pinstripping.


We did some walking around Bisbee, very cool variety of architecture as the money flowed into town. And we found the one restaurant open on a Sunday morning. The Savory Spot is some good eating if you find yourself hungry.


Of course a couple of guys like Nick & I can't stroll through a little town without catching the scent of rigs for sale....this one had a pretty creative sign in the window...





Onward in our walking travels we came across something the town map called "Iron Man" which is odd considering he is copper and dedicated to those "virile" copper workers.....ummm virile, I guess playing in the dirty dark and then hitting the town on payday would make me virile also



I know I mentioned some cool architecture in town, one of the ones that really stuck me was the courthouse. This thing was full of some really need elements.



Walking through these doors would never become routine for me....these carry some nifty symbolism and sytle.



Lamppost that caught my eye when it caught the sunlight....


The "Merchants & Miners Bank" also had some neat details....if this building ever gets torn down I want this for my home mailbox
Oh and the antique store that currently resides in the bank still has the small vault on the other side of this, and 2 older vaults also.

[1leglance]

Alongside the giant hole in the ground that is the Queen mine pit there is the preserved rementant of one of the small towns that grew up with Bisbee, but didn't survive.
However the street is really cool to walk around and check out.


Of course this street was much cooler with a couple of vintage Suburbans parked there. The flash splash of rain we got was just enough to make us laugh but not enough to actually soak anyone.
Oh and see that very thin and stealthy lamppost behind my rig....well my only damage of the trip was catching my ham radio antenna on that thing as I was backing up to do a U-turn...dumb*ss me. 43 sq feet of glass in our rigs and I manage to find the one blindspot. Teach me not to use the mirrors and double check everything.


We dashed back to Phoenix, getting home later than we wanted but happy to have enjoyed a great shake down run of the new suspension, axles, tcase,trans, brakes, shfiter, sleep platform, fridge mount and whatever else I forgot
Nick is a tremendous resource and friend and none of this would have happened without his help. Huge thank to that fellow.

I know I still need to post some pics of the actually springs, shocks, hydraulic bumpstops....sometime soon as it gives me an excuse to get back into the dirt and flex the old girl.

[ThreeQtr]

Pictures of your trip with Mooseburb and your families look nice. Sounds like you and your family had a good time even with the 'christianing' of the new paint job.
Now how about those pictures of the new mods (now older) of the Suburban.

[1leglance]

Oh man do I ever need to get some pics and post them
Mosesburb-Nick has been doing some killer work/teaching on my rig and there is plenty more to come.
Mainly I have just been out using the rig...finsihed or not we like to get out on the dirt.
Going again this weekend for a couple of days so I will try to get some pics and post up an update.

[Clrussell]

You might have posted it somewhere and I missed it, what percent is your tint? That's the exact look I'm going for on my burb. Thanks and great project

[ThreeQtr]

Looking for updated pictures....PLLEEASE!!

[Cumminpwr11]

hey your trip to tombstone, and other sight seeing stops. How narrow are the trails? Right now I just have a Dually for the family and would like to see some of those places. Just want to make sure her fat ass can make it.

Thanks
Chris

[rjsdad]

Know this is an old thread but how much was youR MAACO paint job?

[mosesburb]

I heard a rumor he abandoned this in someone's driveway and went on a couple vacations. Anybody else heard that??

[1leglance]

Yeah Yeah the Big Blue Burb has been hanging out at Nick-mosesburb's house for a couple months.
One of those "out of sight, out of mind" things for me...for Nick more of a stray animal you can't get to stop coming by
But last night was a big milestone in that we drove it around a bit and I was IMPRESSED. Sure I knew adding TBI would be nice, and I knew Nick would do his usual best work but actually riding in the rig was way cool.

So since it has been about a year since I updated this thread I figured I would add some history..
The rig has been getting out and playing in the dirt plenty..

North rim of the Grand Canyon


A comfy place to sleep on the trail for my wife & I


And now let's see if we can't start to tell the story of the last couple of months...

[justcuz]

OK Lance,
Now you have fuel injection and an overdrive automatic with a lockup torque converter. So with those 4.11 gears down to 2.90 in OD locked up in 4th gear how are you MPG's compared to Nick's diesel?
I'm sure his are better but you should be well into the mid to high teens on MPG.
I heard a nasty rumor that you have to reserve campsites at Toroweep now.
We did not make it over due to mud and fuel concerns, but our last trip on the Arizona Strip was terrific!

[1leglance]

Sorry for the crappy cell phone pics

So the day before my rig was supposed to go to Nicks for all this work my younger son drove it to school....and got it towed.
$200 later and a ton of rushing around and we get it out of the yard...good lesson for him and not too big a hit to his savings


Yes there is a light coming out of my grill....very strange things happen at Nicks house.


Sometimes you wonder about your friends...especially if they have to but in a ton of work to defunk your project before they can start on the real fun. Lucky for me Nick didn't need an intervention, he was just making sure we had plenty of hood clearance for all the stuff he wanted to stuff in.

[1leglance]

Originally Posted by justcuz

OK Lance,
Now you have fuel injection and an overdrive automatic with a lockup torque converter. So with those 4.11 gears down to 2.90 in OD locked up in 4th gear how are you MPG's compared to Nick's diesel?
I'm sure his are better but you should be well into the mid to high teens on MPG.
I heard a nasty rumor that you have to reserve campsites at Toroweep now.
We did not make it over due to mud and fuel concerns, but our last trip on the Arizona Strip was terrific!

Well just to make it clear...
We have put on maybe 10 miles and still have a ton of work to do before Nick will let this project go home. I think he has grown emotionally attached to my blue truck and burb and has separation anxiety

I will actually track my mpg for a while, normally I don't care but it will be fun to figure out the cost to benefit ratio.

[DirtyLarry]

Looking great Lance! You got the right guy working on it. You can guarantee Nick’s work will be done right the first time. No too sure you will actually gain much more power with TBI but the overall drivability will be sooo worth it. Carburetors are just horrible for intense heat, altitude changes and bouncy off-roading as you well know. Can’t wait to see it on the next go around. Hopefully you and Nick can come along for Desert Trip 2015 in May with the Pueblo crew. We're probably going to skip OX this year and do a Utah trip the week before Memorial Day.

[justcuz]

Is there any advantage to converting to a 3 wire O2 sensor instead of the single wire in this application?
I suspect your not running a catalytic converter, so it seems the engine would benefit from the heated O2 sensor to get it into closed loop quicker.
I would love to see more detailed pictures of the EFI swap.
Do you run single or dual exhausts. I only saw one tailpipe on the left side in the photos.
Wish I could say I was making progress on my junk but I just spent 3 months in Michigan settling my folks estate and still working on escrow and unclaimed funds in 2 states.
Do your family a favor and have your financial house in order, this has been a ton of work. Thankfully I am retired!

[1leglance]

Originally Posted by justcuz

Is there any advantage to converting to a 3 wire O2 sensor instead of the single wire in this application?
I suspect your not running a catalytic converter, so it seems the engine would benefit from the heated O2 sensor to get it into closed loop quicker.
I would love to see more detailed pictures of the EFI swap.
Do you run single or dual exhausts. I only saw one tailpipe on the left side in the photos.
Wish I could say I was making progress on my junk but I just spent 3 months in Michigan settling my folks estate and still working on escrow and unclaimed funds in 2 states.
Do your family a favor and have your financial house in order, this has been a ton of work. Thankfully I am retired!

Honestly I am going to let Nick-mosesburb tackle most of the tech questions as I am the dude who prefers to just play with his toys. I am sure we will hear from smarter people also in this thread.

I do know it is a heated O2 sensor.
I am running a Howell harness with all GM TBI stuff and Howell custom burnt a chip based on engine/cam info Nick supplied to them.
Single exhaust with no cat to give me more space under the rig to mount a water tank, on board air compressor and other toys in the future.