Who here daily drives their square body? (long(

[sethv]

I daily drive my '78 K10. Gets about 16 mpg on the highway, about 12-13 city. (That's if I'm nice to it ).

Not having a truck payment and cheap insurance equal out to having something good on gas but expensive payments/insurance. lol.

[DetroitDan]

oh boy, where to start? this is my favorite topic. I drive a 1982 crewcab 4wd, 454 carb/th400 with 4.10 gears and a 6 inch lift. P.O. told me he consistently got ten mpg, but since lifting it, upsizing the tires slightly, and using my right foot instead of his, I get about 7-8 mpg. I almost never drive it on the highway though, it doesn't like to go over 55. Has a slight vibration from a bent wheel or driveshaft. Fortunately I have no need to drive on the highway with it. I love driving my truck, but I hate putting fuel in it every two or three days. I have yet to sit down and figure out how much I spend, but I know I'd rather spend the money on fuel instead of a truck or car payment. Payments, insurance, higher registration costs will buy a lot of fuel, and guess what? You have to put fuel in the commuter you buy also. I drive about 25 miles a day round trip for work, so I'm probably using 4 gallons a day, at nearly $4 a gallon right now..Geez, when you put it that way it sounds bad.
So, to save money on gas, (and to relive my late teens) I bought a 70 Camaro Z28 for a daily driver. As others have already pointed out, gadgets and doo dads in a car do nothing for me either. I get about 12-13 mpg with it I think, 350/350/3.08, so I save about 40% over driving the crewcab. Over the winter I want to put a 700r4 in the 70, it really wants one.
I've racked my brains for years on how to make the crewcab happier and more affordable, but every time I chicken out because the huge cost associated with changing the transmission or the engine would take many years to recoup in gas savings. I've considered 700r4 (too weak) 4l80e (too complicated, requires computer) NV4500 manual (too pricy and complicated, but I would love driving it) and 6.2 conversion (big job and trading lots of power for fuel economy. If I did the 6.2 I'd have to add a turbo and soup it up to make it bearable, which would cost money and probably cut down the phenomenal mileage. Plus I've got a low mileage 454, no sense wasting it.
In recent weeks I've been looking around for a winter beater, since the Camaro is going inside and I don't want to drive the 454 daily. My problem is I cannot drive something that is not cool in some way, even a $1000 winter beater. I want a v6 C10 or C1500, or maybe an old Toyota pickup.
I wish there was a simple (like me) calculator to figure out how much I can spend on a commuter and still come out ahead by parking the crewcab and only using it for dumpruns and getting pellet fuel.

[DetroitDan]

Oh, and repairs? The first time I towed my 11k camper with the 82, the starter broke going down the highway. Pulled over, put on some gloves, removed the starter and got a ride into town to a VIP where I bought a reman right off the shelf for $25. Careful, that core's still hot! Threw it back in, continued on my trip and lost less than an hour. Try that in a new truck. You'd have to have both truck and trailer towed, nobody would look at it on a weekend, then the new starter would cost $300. All told $1000 and a ruined weekend.
If I spend a couple hundred a year in repairs, that's not bad.

[Rubble]

I just got done reading Dans reply on repairs and he pretty much said what I was gonna say.My repair bill is next to nothing,do all the work myself,have a good shop to work in and biggest thing is I enjoy working on them! I would be lost with a new one...Same thing as posted before too,I dont need all the crap on newer trucks have,give me a radio,gear shift and half decent seat & I am happy.Been lucky enough to aquire some parts trucks over the years too so have lots of spare parts around.Last count was around 14-15,I dont park them all together so the wife loses count that way!!If I need a new part,local napa dealer is great,usually has it in stock too!!

[Rubble]

by the way... this is rubble's wife.... and it is closer to 20 trucks and she has not lost count hahahahaha .. a hobby he loves and he still makes money.. why would i complain?????

[DetroitDan]

it always amazes me when I find parts in stock for something so old. I replaced the power steering pump on my 70 Camaro last weekend. Autozone had one on the shelf.

[shipma2]

i drive my 78 k10 with the 454 daily even with 4.00 gas prices, i love the truck more then anything else i drove plus it has character unlike all the other new trucks and cars. i get alot of odd looks and questions about why i do not drive anything newer belive it or not lol

[Rubble]

I get the same thing about driving an old truck,they way I look at it,these old squares will probably still be running 30 years from now,doubt that about any of the new GM models.They will have been in the wrecker for at least 10-15 years by them.Also on the character thing too,my trucks don't blend in so well in any given parking lot either!!!!
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[tucsonjwt]

A calculator for keeping an old gas hog or buying a new fuel efficient vehicle:

http://someyapping.com/Fuel-Efficien...alculator.aspx

It does not include the additional cost of better/more expensive insurance for the new car, or increased license plate fees.

If you really only need to drive a truck once every couple of months, you are better off renting a truck for those occasions.

I think most here are considering keeping the old square for dump runs, Home Depot purchases, furniture moving, etc. So, you are really calculating the gas savings for decreased miles driven on the old truck. However, there is one big problem with keeping the old truck and driving it infrequently (assuming that it is carbureted) - the carburetor will varnish up and need rebuilding/replacing frequently.

I went through this with my first two old squares, and now know that I must fire up and drive the old BB about 10 miles or so once every week or two and that keeps the carb relatively clear, and I spray the carb with cleaner every few months and run it on the highway for 10-20 miles. I also keep about 1/4 tank of fuel in each of the two tanks, so the fuel gets cycled through every couple of months to lessen the chance of varnish forming. Of course, if the truck were to sit for months at a time (as it has in the past), I would put Stabil in the tanks to preserve the fuel.

Also, the fuel inlet gasket tends to leak for some reason, so I have to tighten that up every couple of months (I need to replace it and have a bag of new gaskets but have not gotten around to it yet.)

[Firebirdjones]

I know what you mean, I deal with the seldom driven syndrome myself. I have a couple cars here that haven't seen daylight in 30 years, they run and drive, I just don't have the desire to drive them at the present time
However I try to run my truck once a month, sometimes more. Keep it on a battery tender and keep fresh fuel in it. There's times when I've needed it for several days to tow the trailer. It comes in spirts. But it doesn't cost anything for it to sit there, and it's a nice luxury to have when I do need it. Nothing else in the stable will pull the trailer I have, so it's a necessity. I have to keep it in tip top shape. Never know when I have to jump in it.

[Firebirdjones]

Interesting calculator, can't get the calculations to change in that link you provided for some reason. I'll have to play with that some more.

To replace my 502 powered 1 ton 79 pickup with todays equivilent pickup would require a turbo diesel minimum. That's all they make with same or more towing power than I already have to keep this an apples to apples comparison. (they don't make big block trucks anymore)

That's a $50,000 truck vs selling my $5,000 truck. The fuel savings compared to my neighbors 04 duramax is only 3-4 mpg difference. He gets 17-18 mpg and I get 14 mpg (both of us empty). We tow my 28 foot trailer with each truck and he dropped to 13 mpg and I drop to 9-10 mpg. He's better on fuel,,,but not by that much. Considering he's paying $4.39 a gallon for deisel fuel in our area and I'm paying $3.85. It really looks like a wash to me.

Not to mention his truck is a hell of alot more expensive to buy, insure, and license.

[Firebirdjones]

Got it to work.

The amount of fuel it would save me each year.....$284

If I keep the truck 20 years (since I don't plan to sell the square I figure this is a fair assumption) the amount of savings would be $29,328

Number of years until fuel savings would cover the cost of upgrading.....
123.4

I'm not living that long. Yeah I think I'll just keep the ole' square.

I figured in the cost of a used duramax diesel of about 1-2 years old (they still sell for $40k used with 100k miles on them already,,,sheeeesh) If I calculate a brand new truck the $$$ figures are even worse lol.

[Rubble]

Just looked at the calculator too,for my job I need a truck,no way around that.Even the company trucks are 3/4 tons so fuel milage is probably average around 15-18 mpg. Going from what most of the local guys tell me,thats even high on some of them! One of my friends has a 09 GMC with 6.0 liter getting 15 mpg avg. Doing same thing as I am.I can get 12-14 with my 86!! The IFS on newer GMs are ok on pavement,but the gravel,dirt and pasture roads we run through take there toll on them quickly.My old spring susp. Might ride rougher but less parts to wear out& cheaper to repair.I choose to run these old trucks because I want to,not because I have too...I could run a newer truck with a payment,but just can't get around the idea of 500-700 bucks a month and if it needs repairs,then it has to go into a dealership!Besides if my square breaks down out in the country,I can probably haywire it enough to limp home and repair it,good luck with a new one doing that....There are probably going to be some people that question my reasons,but hey it's a discussion forum right??
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[tucsonjwt]

15-18 mpg on a 3/4 gas engine is very optimistic in my opinion. I got 15.5 city/18.5 highway on a 2010 4.8L 1/2 ton ext. cab GMC with 3.42 rear axle and very careful driving. Considering that a 3/4 ton weighs a lot more, I question the mileage estimate.

If you can get by with a 1/2 ton 2WD, I think Keith has the best mpg on his 87 DD.

I know people with late model Dodge cummins, Chevy Duramax, Ford powerstroke, and they all say they get 17 mpg combination on average. I expect all highway would get better mileage, but nobody drives only on the highway.

For high mileage drivers, a new or newer vehicle almost always makes the most sense. Since the topic is DD square trucks - it all depends on how much you drive.

[asphaltburner]

My FRANKENTRUCK is a highly altered 1978 4x4 3/4 ton (nearly 1 ton, due to it's axles and springs), TH400/built 350 with 4.11:1 gears. It works daily, but is not used for commuting due to it's 12.5 mpg. Even that is pretty amazing considering it puts out about 325 to 350 Hp and the TH400 is not an OD tranny.
Sure will get heavy work done pronto, though (and can be locked into front-wheel drive for the snowy conditions, too)!
Todd.

[Rubble]

The mileage thing is funny because you can ask 10 different people and you get 10 different answers.Still goes back to my decision to drive an old square for daily driver,how come these newer/new 3/4 ton trucks can't get any better mileage,or any significantly better than a 25-30 year old truck?? My 85 I had 25 years ago would average 13-15 mpg with a 350/400/208 with 31" tires!! Where is all the technology ?????
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[gafiredog]

I drive my 75 stepside everyday. Its a 250-6/350 turbo.gas mileagw is around 11-12. it has about 200K on it. Its tired, and needs a rebuild., But i wouldn't think of getting a new vehicle with monthly payments. My insurance is $ 85.00 per year, and my tag cost $28.00 this year. I'm finishing up a rebuild on my 85 crew. when its on the road, I'll take the 75 apart, and start work on it.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

I think the mileage on our trucks would be much better if the farmers weren't lobbying for more money with this ethanol fuel junk. I add a half a gallon water to five gallons fuel and slosh it around a couple times over the coarse of the day since the water and ethanol will settle to the bottom.

I gain some more hp and about 1.5 mpg just doing this. Amazing how $h!t the fuel is nowadays but I avg 9 in the city with my 3:73 gears and no overdrive just taking out ethanol for my other tank when I go to the track is worth getting less fuel IMO. Sometime I will get a 2004r with a lockup converter and I would be happy with 14mpg in the city and 22hwy
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[lanconcj]

I drive my 86 every day (64 miles round trip to work). It makes it hard to finish a restoration, but it is too much fun to drive to leave it at home.

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by Rubble

The mileage thing is funny because you can ask 10 different people and you get 10 different answers.Still goes back to my decision to drive an old square for daily driver,how come these newer/new 3/4 ton trucks can't get any better mileage,or any significantly better than a 25-30 year old truck?? My 85 I had 25 years ago would average 13-15 mpg with a 350/400/208 with 31" tires!! Where is all the technology ?????
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That's always been a question in my mind. My fathers 03 3/4 ton 4x4 with the 6.0/4L80 and 4.10 gears averages about 15 mpg for him. Not horrible but not what I would consider all that great for something with fuel injection and overdrive. Everyone thinks the 6.0 should be a gas hog,,,I mean lets face it,,,it's not a big engine,,,it's only 364 cubes, there is no reason for it to be considered a gas hog. It only has 9 cubic inches over the 355 I used to run in my blazer. I now run the same 2004 6.0 engine in my 72 4x4 blazer with a 4L60 and 3.73 gears and get 17/22 city/highway with an optimized tune. I think that's alot of the answer to your question. GM puts such a lazy tune in these things (low timing tables/pig rich WOT AFR's) makes the engines lazy. My neighbors 03 duramax 3/4 ton is getting him 17-18 mpg which doesn't seem all that special to me for a diesel. Again I'm sure there is something left on the table with the tune though. If I can get 14 mpg out of my 79 1 ton with a 502 in it, no overdrive, and 3.73 gears, then there should be potential in any pickup truck out there if optimized properly.

[kwin]

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

That's always been a question in my mind. My fathers 03 3/4 ton 4x4 with the 6.0/4L80 and 4.10 gears averages about 15 mpg for him. Not horrible but not what I would consider all that great for something with fuel injection and overdrive. Everyone thinks the 6.0 should be a gas hog,,,I mean lets face it,,,it's not a big engine,,,it's only 364 cubes, there is no reason for it to be considered a gas hog. It only has 9 cubic inches over the 355 I used to run in my blazer. I now run the same 2004 6.0 engine in my 72 4x4 blazer with a 4L60 and 3.73 gears and get 17/22 city/highway with an optimized tune. I think that's alot of the answer to your question. GM puts such a lazy tune in these things (low timing tables/pig rich WOT AFR's) makes the engines lazy. My neighbors 03 duramax 3/4 ton is getting him 17-18 mpg which doesn't seem all that special to me for a diesel. Again I'm sure there is something left on the table with the tune though. If I can get 14 mpg out of my 79 1 ton with a 502 in it, no overdrive, and 3.73 gears, then there should be potential in any pickup truck out there if optimized properly.

I think the 4l80e is a part of the reputation for poor fuel economy, compared to the 60 its heavier and requires more energy to turn. I think gearing , tranny and how they are worked is a big part of the reputation for being a pig. Certainly tune helps , I currently get 21 highway in my 91 burb, with everything in palce 6.0 4l60e proper tune and gearing I hope to be closer to 24 mpg. That being said thats not the main reason for the swap.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

You have to keep bore sizing in mind as well. Why do you think gm loved the 305 so?
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[1985-GMC]

I use my 78 as my DD, and I get a whopping 9mpg out of it too!

[Skunksmash]

Originally Posted by V3500KING

I daily drive mine. 1990 V3500 4x4 crew cab dually. Ride is real nice. Gas mileage is not so great. I average 10.5 mpg. I drive mostly on the highway. It has a TBI 454/TH400/205 with a dana 70HD with 4:10. My truck will stop on a dime. Its has the factory tow package which means its got the big brakes and hydroboost. I am looking at putting in a cummins for better fuel economy at some point.

Don't the internationals Ford runs get better than the cummins do right now? Can't remember. Might wanna consider one of those too.

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by kwin

I think the 4l80e is a part of the reputation for poor fuel economy, compared to the 60 its heavier and requires more energy to turn. I think gearing , tranny and how they are worked is a big part of the reputation for being a pig. Certainly tune helps , I currently get 21 highway in my 91 burb, with everything in palce 6.0 4l60e proper tune and gearing I hope to be closer to 24 mpg. That being said thats not the main reason for the swap.

Yes I agree, the 4L80 is a disadvantage when it comes to fuel mileage. It's a stout tranny, but takes HP to turn it, and it doesn't have as much of an overdrive in it (only .75) compared to the 4L60 with a .70 4th gear. Not alot of difference but if we are getting technical, it's part of the equation.

21 highway from a burb is excellent with that 6.0. I'm getting 22 mpg out of my 6.0 in a 72 4x4 blazer using the 4L60 just as you did. I'm extremely pleased with it.