Finally caught a break NP440 / MY 6

[par4tom]

Hope to see Dazz's new transmission thread added on here soon! I have the original chrome shift lever that fits this that I am not using. Never saw the one that was pictured above that you got Dazz.


Tom

[Dazzoman]

Originally Posted by par4tom

Hope to see Dazz's new transmission thread added on here soon! I have the original chrome shift lever that fits this that I am not using. Never saw the one that was pictured above that you got Dazz.


Tom

Thanks Tom ,

Hoping to get it running on the road by today ! I had to rewire backup light so that things aren't antiquated plus while your at it you might as well loose the running / turn sig light plugs and go solid ! The brake lights are SO much brighter .
Today Im gonna put in the new jute / rubber mats from Bowtie bits .
AND HERE IS AN ANOUNCEMENT - TOM MYERS TRUCKS (GM TRUCK YARD PARTS UP TO 1972) IS DOWN SIZING NEXT MONTH ....!!
That means parts will be tougher to get from them and they are very resonable

[Brad54]

Originally Posted by Greg63

You've got a problem - so do I.
I have the GM version in my '63, two Mopar pattern units in the garage, and a GM empty main case on the bench. I was hoping I could swap out the innards of one of the Mopar units into the GM main case. Any idea if that is a possibility?

Greg

As far as I know, the internals are essentially the same... but the input shaft and the tail shaft will be different.

-Brad

[Dazzoman]

Originally Posted by par4tom

Hope to see Dazz's new transmission thread added on here soon! I have the original chrome shift lever that fits this that I am not using. Never saw the one that was pictured above that you got Dazz.


Tom

GOOD NEWS everyone .!!! Its done and I DON'T EVEN RECOGNIZE this truck anymore ! WOW !
I have an feeling the gas smileage is gonna be awesome . The 292 loves it and its gonna last that much longer :-)
New seat , mat and floor jute was part of it since everything was out .
Had to straighten , re bend the shifter ....
Both trannies are the same EXCEPT that reverse is different positioned - left and up . (huh? ) yep . So that means the shifter HAS to be the matched one as far as I know .

[dracko]

Looks good! I'm also putting that same trans in my '64 so glad to hear you like the shift ratios. Where did you source the high hump mat? And what made you go with that underlay as opposed to the common foil backed peel and stick? Cheers!

[Brad54]

Originally Posted by Dazzoman

GOOD NEWS everyone .!!! Its done and I DON'T EVEN RECOGNIZE this truck anymore ! WOW !
I have an feeling the gas smileage is gonna be awesome . The 292 loves it and its gonna last that much longer :-)
New seat , mat and floor jute was part of it since everything was out .
Had to straighten , re bend the shifter ....
Both trannies are the same EXCEPT that reverse is different positioned - left and up . (huh? ) yep . So that means the shifter HAS to be the matched one as far as I know .

Which one did you use, the aluminum case or the iron case?
I notice the bearing retainer on the iron case has been turned down and fastened with allen bolts. I had to do that on mine, too.
In the Mopar hobby (these transmissions are Mopar units, essentially), the aluminum case 4spd ODs have a reputation for not being able to handle a lot of power. They start to wallow out the counter shaft's hole in the case, and eventually fail. The fix is to bore out that hole and insert a steel bushing, and that fixes the problem. I actually have a slick-shift Hemi 4-speed in a Direct Connection aluminum case that came with that bushing installed.
The heavy-duty versions of the 4-speed (behind Hemis, 440, 340, etc) had an iron main case, and that one was bullet proof.
I read several years ago that there was an iron, HD version of these for the Chevy applications. After keeping an eye out for one for years, I finally found one at my swap meet for a price I was happy with. The problem, of course, is that it will not bolt to a factory '60-'62 bellhousing, so I'll have to add engine side mounts and a trans cross member for my '62, whereas I've got an aluminum case version with a Chevy mounting pattern in my Suburban now, so I was able to use the stock bellhousing and engine mounts.
The Suburban is going to get an engine upgrade, so I'll put the iron case in it with the mounts (348 Tri-Power!), the aluminum one with the stock bell will go in the K10.

-Brad

[Dazzoman]

Good one Brad .
I think both of mine are Chevy application but you say Mopar had this too ? Maybe the shaft splines are different on the Mopar .
Do you have an chevy aluminum bell housing ? You could use that but it will not be as toughe as the iron , same with the iron trans like you said .
I had to make an kit (pics on my early post) to fit the L side where as the R side fit my 1966 GMC Bell housing of which my truck is .
Glad you kept the original hence the older starter bolt pattern .
Even tho mine is an iron trans Im gonna make an lighter rear crossmember for the rear trans mount or I'll find an 1965 Chvy truck automatic crossmember he he ya right .
They put it there so it must be there for a reason .

[Brad54]

Originally Posted by Dazzoman

Good one Brad .
I think both of mine are Chevy application but you say Mopar had this too ? Maybe the shaft splines are different on the Mopar .
Do you have an chevy aluminum bell housing ? You could use that but it will not be as toughe as the iron , same with the iron trans like you said .
I had to make an kit (pics on my early post) to fit the L side where as the R side fit my 1966 GMC Bell housing of which my truck is .
Glad you kept the original hence the older starter bolt pattern .
Even tho mine is an iron trans Im gonna make an lighter rear crossmember for the rear trans mount or I'll find an 1965 Chvy truck automatic crossmember he he ya right .
They put it there so it must be there for a reason .

The New Process A-833 4-speed was a Mopar trans since the early '60s. In the '70s, they reworked them to make 3rd gear 1:1, and 4th is an overdrive, running through the cluster position that used to be 3rd gear in a regular 4-speed application.
A Mopar input shaft is much longer and a different spline count, the output shaft is longer (on most--the Dusters had a short shaft) and different spline count.
From what I have been able to find, there are two different transmission main case mounting patterns: the ones in your photo, which require a special (factory) re-tooled bell housing, and another with a regular GM 4-speed mounting pattern. The ones you have use a Mopar mounting pattern.
There are also at least three bellhousings: any standard GM bellhousing, an aluminum one that's been retooled for the Mopar mount and uses mechanical clutch linkage, and an aluminum that's been retooled for the Mopar mount that uses a hydraulic clutch slave on the fork. (NOT a hydraulic throw-out bearing, as was used on later trucks). I have both of the aluminum ones, and need to see which I'll ultimately use on my '61 Suburban when I put the 348 in it.
Option eleventy is I buy a Lakewood with multi-pattern trans mount, and the side mounting holes for a '57 Chevy which will also work with the '60-'62 frame. I know that can be done because I already have one of those bellhousings for my slick-shift Hemi 4-speed racing trans, as that trans has a custom input shaft for Chevy... But I'd rather not use that one as it's slated for my gasser.

-Brad

[Dazzoman]

I see :-)
Wouldn't you want to use an iron NP440 for your 62 truck because its heavy duty ?
At the very least (otherwise ) I would pop that steel sleeve in it so you can feel safe .
On bolt patterns , even tho I have ( as you say) the Mopar tranny it does bolt (GM) on on the right side , and yes of course the nose piece has been turned and allen head screws added .But on the left side I had the bracket strap set made , so far today I drove it w no probs .I found an tiny oil leak of which I thought wouldn't happen on the rear seal but put in some motor purr and it sealed it up real nice . I wouldn't have had the time to do that too , it took me over an month to do all this much . Alot of wiring stuff I did plus floor/ seat .
BTW how come I can't post the thumbnail pic of my truck on this forum ( by my name like your has ) ?
T

[Brad54]

I've thought about putting the iron case in the 4x4, for the reason you said... but the 348 Tri Power that's going in the '61 Suburban is actually a stroker motor, and will be beat on fairly regularly.
The 4x4 will be a daily driver around town, and going into the woods to hunt and fish--no rock-crawling or anything like that. I figure the Dana 44s, the lock-out hubs, front axle hug u-joints, driveshaft u-joints, and transfer case all have to break before the aluminum case on the trans explodes in 1st/4-Low!

I don't remember how I was able to post that thumbnail... I'm a bit of a luddite when it comes to things like that! Stumble around until I find it, then forget how I got there!

-Brad

[Dazzoman]

Oh ya .
Are those aluminum trannies really that beefy ? I thought they can break ....
Im fairly new to them ...

[andyh1956]

Yall know that in the 70s ford did the same thing with the toploader 4 spd & made an OD outta it. I have adapted several ford trannys to chevy engines & looks like it would be a good swap also. In the 80s ford changed to a wimpy aluminum trans that wasn't very good. I had one of the toploader o/d in a 79 f150 & it was a great trans, the 302 in front of it not so much...

[Brad54]

Originally Posted by Dazzoman

Oh ya .
Are those aluminum trannies really that beefy ? I thought they can break ....
Im fairly new to them ...

They probably aren't any more fragile than an aluminum-case Muncie--both will break behind a lot of horsepower in a heavy car, or from simple abuse.

I put almost 100,000 miles on the one in my Suburban, behind a 290hp crate engine, and I wasn't always kind to it. Never a hint of a problem.

-Brad

[65Robb]

Hey guys great thread lots of info. so I'm about ready to swap a np440 in my 65 I have a question about the drive shaft does the drive shaft have to be modified or just swap a slip yoke on it if so what slip yoke should I use?

[par4tom]

Swap the yoke...tailshaft is typical gm type...you may have to shorten your drive shaft depending on what you have in there now...

[65Robb]

Ok I have a granny 4speed with the 2 peice drive shaft in it right now

[Brad54]

Originally Posted by 65Robb

Ok I have a granny 4speed with the 2 peice drive shaft in it right now

Not gonna work. Mine had that same trans. Had to buy a new yoke (same as TH700r4), and had a one-piece driveshaft made.
My '62 Suburban came with a 1pc driveshaft with the slip-yoke built into it... so technically, it was 2-pc, but when we're talking about these trucks, I think we all typically consider a "2pc driveshaft" to mean the later ones with the carrier bearing in the middle.

-Brad

[65Robb]

Yes think they all where a 2 peice i believe lol so I will have to get a slip yoke for a th350 700r4 to make it work or just go with a 1 peice out of a later model.

[Dazzoman]

Originally Posted by 65Robb

Hey guys great thread lots of info. so I'm about ready to swap a np440 in my 65 I have a question about the drive shaft does the drive shaft have to be modified or just swap a slip yoke on it if so what slip yoke should I use?

In my 66 GMC I had the front portion shortened and they had to put an Stingray type front U joint unit on there so I could fit the front portion on (because it has to slide in the tranny ) . Picture .

[65Robb]

Ok how much did you have it shortened?

[LEEVON]

Just wanted to add to the knowledge base...I sold my very nice MY6/NP833 aluminum case unit for $550 recently. It was complete with a very nice shifter and the offset pattern bellhousing. It's going in an old hot rod. That might give you all an idea on the market value.

[Dazzoman]

Originally Posted by 65Robb

Ok how much did you have it shortened?

Not sure exactly but when new tran is bolted in you can measure it and take the whole 2 piece drive shaft to (in my case ) San Jose Drive Line and they will spin balance the whole thing , add new U joints etc for about $400 .

[65Robb]

Ok ill measure it out when I get it mounted up. Thanks for the help guys

[dracko]

There is some excellent info online on how to measure driveshaft length. For the most part the shop i used just wanted a measurement from centre to centre of the U joint pivots. Keep in mind the slip yoke should be out 1" from the seal when measuring. That gives some play to move in/out as the suspension is compressed.

[65Robb]

Ok awesome haha