1949 Chevy with S10 swap. Beginner build with ambition!

[gigamanx]

A picture would probably be the "uh huh!" I took all the sheet metal off just now so I'm looking at the engine again and there is space to move back afterall once I stuck my head in there. Maybe something like this would make sense. I could flip the brackets and weld them in?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/S-10-SBC-V8-...xYfBpY&vxp=mtr

[joedoh]

those are the wrong brackets for your truck. those are made for the 2.8 type frame mounts and cant be reversed. if you tried to reverse it, it would hit the serpentine system like you say. even if it could be reversed you would need to buy the 2.8 style mounts to use them. here is a picture of the difference from JTR



your 4.3 uses a clamshell mount that has two pieces, a piece that is mounted to the frame with 3 bolts, and a piece that covers the frame piece (the clamshell) that bolts to the motor.

I havent done it, but others have, where they use the transdapt 4671 flipped and mounted it to the frame instead of the engine, moving the factory frame mount back the max amount the adapter can. I HAVE done it with custom made plates in the exact style of the transdapt 4671 with slightly more length, so I had the 4.3 in my 47 moved back 6 inches and I know it works.

[1952ssr]

I used the transdapt kit and flipped it, here is mine. I think I got mine from Summit.

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by 1952ssr

I used the transdapt kit and flipped it, here is mine. I think I got mine from Summit.

Awesome! That's what I needed to see. It looks like you used your stock clam shells and just used the adapter plate. I've ordered the transdapt kit and already have the driveline apart ready to test it out.

[joedoh]

looks like he used the first type you posted and trimmed his serp system where the smog pump was. those are 2.8 style mounts.

[gigamanx]

I ordered both through Amazon and they have a nice and easy return policy. This afternoon, on a whim, I also checked craigslist for a chevy 350 and voila... Someone is selling a 1996 GMC 1/2 ton 5.7L V8 engine with a 4L80E trans. 100K miles. Would that be something that would make sense in our Chevy 3100 trucks? I can't seem to find specs on horsepower or torque, but the 4L80E trans seems to be pretty beefy.

[gigamanx]

Waiting for some engine parts to arrive, so I decided to tackle the S10 swap cab mounts. I downloaded a bunch of plans from different builds and ultimately ended up just measuring, cutting, and welding my own. Something to be said for just getting out with a tape measure and getting the job done.

Measurements on the front are 6" from the top of the frame to the plate on top of the mount. That gave me the clearance I needed to maximize bed depth. It does mean I'll have to put a pretty good drop kit on the wheels to bring the stance down to where I want it. Rear mounts are 4 1/4" from frame to top. The rears have a larger bushing to mount to and I'm modifying the rail on the rear of the cab to accommodate the bushing. All made from 4x4 11ga box steel, a jig saw, and a cutoff wheel

I will say even after doing the muriatic acid method, ammonia, water, then weldable primer, I'm not getting very good penetration on the frame side of the welds. Makes me nervous since this isn't one of the areas I'd like a weld to fail me later. I might have a problem with my weldable primer. It doesn't seem to conduct very well. Hoping its not left over wax on the frame as has been pointed out on the S10 build sticky.

Update: The frame is good, its the welder that won't work. I have a Lincoln 140 plugged into a 110v outlet. I had a problem with duty cycle and it doesn't get any penetration with 0.30 wire. Time to add a new welder to the budget. Tried just welding to clean pieces of 11ga and noticed it barely penetrates for adhesion.

Update again: I used a different plug in the house and a thicker extension cable and bam, nice solid weld. Was pretty pumped to do my first nice looking weld instead of the junk I've been laying down to spot weld stuff.

[Mains52]

Looks good man. Keep it up.

[99 to Life]

yah just gotta dive in and not worry so much about the plans. I'd recommend no weld through primer on the frame. You'll be coating over it anyway. 6" off frame is tall. for bags you can make it work, but requires alot of fabbing to lay out. For static drop, 4" is a good total off frame measurement IMO. also I wouldn't worry too much about depth in bed. 8" is fine. You won't be hauling as much as you think. But I agree and strive for bed depth for the mere looks as much as practicality.

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by 99 to Life

yah just gotta dive in and not worry so much about the plans. I'd recommend no weld through primer on the frame. You'll be coating over it anyway. 6" off frame is tall. for bags you can make it work, but requires alot of fabbing to lay out. For static drop, 4" is a good total off frame measurement IMO. also I wouldn't worry too much about depth in bed. 8" is fine. You won't be hauling as much as you think. But I agree and strive for bed depth for the mere looks as much as practicality.

I'll take your word for it that 6" is too high. I won't know until much later on and be kicking myself if I get it wrong haha. I think I can take an inch off without any issue so I'll make it 5". Not interested in too much fab work after the fact just to get the bags down. I'll have a static drop on there with the bags, so hopefully the combo will give me a good ride height and a killer parked height.

The beds look a bit goofy when the floor is only a couple inches from the top IMO. I think I just wanted enough bed to throw groceries and junk in since I'm actually going to use mine as a pickup truck

[nikwho]

I would suggest not trying to weld through/over anything except clean metal! Primer and paint after you weld! I that I went 2.5" over my frame rails in the back & 2.25" in the front, but my '53 sits pretty low!

Here's a couple of images for reference for building your frame mounts:

The first photo came from the work of GRIMSS and jeffs51chevy here on the board. The second one is what I made for my truck.

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by 99 to Life

yah just gotta dive in and not worry so much about the plans. I'd recommend no weld through primer on the frame. You'll be coating over it anyway. 6" off frame is tall. for bags you can make it work, but requires alot of fabbing to lay out. For static drop, 4" is a good total off frame measurement IMO. also I wouldn't worry too much about depth in bed. 8" is fine. You won't be hauling as much as you think. But I agree and strive for bed depth for the mere looks as much as practicality.

Here's 5" from the frame on the front mounts. I took an inch off the top. What I didn't account for was rake haha. I made the cab perfectly level...well, the frame isn't perfectly level I'll have to redo the rear mounts I think, they need that extra inch put back on.

Pretty close to perfect and the ride height for me is spot on, so thanks for the tip! With larger wheels and a 3" spindle I'm going to be right where I want to be pre-bagged.

20170716_190937

Now I can start fabbing the core support while also working on getting this V8 engine running.

[OutlawDrifter]

You've got more hanging on yours than I do at this point!

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by gigamanx

Here's 4" from the frame on the front mounts. I took an inch off the top. What I didn't account for was rake haha. I made the cab perfectly level...well, the frame isn't perfectly level I'll have to redo the rear mounts I think, they need that extra inch put back on.

Pretty close to perfect and the ride height for me is spot on, so thanks for the tip! With larger wheels and a 3" spindle I'm going to be right where I want to be pre-bagged.

Now I can start fabbing the core support while also working on getting this V8 engine running.

the bottom of the center section of frame is level, you can measure up from the bottom, the top does sink in the footwell area for more room on the s10.

they dont make a 3" spindle, but you can chop one full turn off your stock springs and use a 2" spindle and get your 3" drop. my advice is to wait to cut the springs till you have everything mounted (engine, front clip) because s10s sometimes have a "lean" to the drivers side and taking an extra bit off the passenger coil is a good way to combat it.

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by OutlawDrifter

You've got more hanging on yours than I do at this point!

The bed is an illusion. It's just sitting there so its out of the way but still needs all the fabrication done to get it on there. I figured that comes last because everything seems to hang off where the cab is sitting. I've read from some people the core support is what dictates everything else. I'll find out soon enough when I try and put my 19x22 radiator on this week.

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by joedoh

the bottom of the center section of frame is level, you can measure up from the bottom, the top does sink in the footwell area for more room on the s10.

they dont make a 3" spindle, but you can chop one full turn off your stock springs and use a 2" spindle and get your 3" drop. my advice is to wait to cut the springs till you have everything mounted (engine, front clip) because s10s sometimes have a "lean" to the drivers side and taking an extra bit off the passenger coil is a good way to combat it.

I've tried to do every bit of cutting and measuring while the tires are on the ground and the engine is in. I hope that all I'll need is a few shims when its finally all back together to level things out. The picture is poor, but I'm using the running board to figure out the cab rake. It helps that whoever painted this last had painted it with all the body panels together, so the unpainted areas let me see where the panels used to sit together. Kind of a handy trick actually. With the running boards level with the ground, the cab was sitting about an inch too low in the rear.

[joedoh]

thats nice when you have a pattern to go on. I was saying you can measure the height of your mounts from the bottom of the frame to the top of the mount, instead of from the top of the frame which as you say does get shorter towards the front mounts. the reason the rear cab mounts are made "higher" is because the cab floor is not perfectly flat, it is higher in the rear than the footwell. I noticed this same thing on the mounts I designed for my 41, the rear mounts are 3/4" higher, I used a straightedge and measured up to the floor


I havent ever put any rake on the cab in relation to the frame or running boards so you might be in territory I have no experience with. I always level the frame and then mount the cab level with respect to the frame, then the running boards level with respect to the cab and frame. in my opinion this makes mounting the bed easier because you dont need angled spacers, the rear section of the frame is level too.

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by joedoh

thats nice when you have a pattern to go on. I was saying you can measure the height of your mounts from the bottom of the frame to the top of the mount, instead of from the top of the frame which as you say does get shorter towards the front mounts. the reason the rear cab mounts are made "higher" is because the cab floor is not perfectly flat, it is higher in the rear than the footwell. I noticed this same thing on the mounts I designed for my 41, the rear mounts are 3/4" higher, I used a straightedge and measured up to the floor


I havent ever put any rake on the cab in relation to the frame or running boards so you might be in territory I have no experience with. I always level the frame and then mount the cab level with respect to the frame, then the running boards level with respect to the cab and frame. in my opinion this makes mounting the bed easier because you dont need angled spacers, the rear section of the frame is level too.

ha we're saying the same thing. My little degree gauge said my frame was resting at 2 degree incline. Could be the garage floor who knows, but I set the cab down with 0 degree incline thinking that would be level with the frame. My own silly fault for not matching the angles. 2 degrees is a noticeable difference over 6 ft

[joedoh]

I get you now, yes indeed 2 degrees is a ton. I am already considering smaller rear tires on mine because the suspension rake is pretty substantial. I think the leafs will settle though.

[HUSSEY]

Originally Posted by gigamanx

A picture would probably be the "uh huh!" I took all the sheet metal off just now so I'm looking at the engine again and there is space to move back afterall once I stuck my head in there. Maybe something like this would make sense. I could flip the brackets and weld them in?

Don't know if you've done anything with your mounts yet but I used a very similar mount bracket adapter. I flipped them side to side and bolted them to the chassis. I then bolted the rubber mount to the motor.

I used the lower bolt hole and trimmed off the top of the mount (the upper bolt hole). You do have to "oblong" the chassis bolt holes for the lower mount bolt holes on the drivers side...you'll see...kind of weird how GM did it that way. The passage side will bolt right on though.

As far as placement, the adapter plates are set right in the middle of the slotted bolt holes.

The 2.8 mounts are considered an upgrade to the 4.3 mounts. You can use the 2.8 mounts or Corvette mounts, I think the Corvette mount adds around 10 HP, Anchor Brand P/N 2436 and 2713, respectively.

I have some pics in my thread, post no. 24.

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by HUSSEY

Don't know if you've done anything with your mounts yet but I used a very similar mount bracket adapter. I flipped them side to side and bolted them to the chassis. I then bolted the rubber mount to the motor.

I used the lower bolt hole and trimmed off the top of the mount (the upper bolt hole). You do have to "oblong" the chassis bolt holes for the lower mount bolt holes on the drivers side...you'll see...kind of weird how GM did it that way. The passage side will bolt right on though.

As far as placement, the adapter plates are set right in the middle of the slotted bolt holes.

The 2.8 mounts are considered an upgrade to the 4.3 mounts. You can use the 2.8 mounts or Corvette mounts, I think the Corvette mount adds around 10 HP, Anchor Brand P/N 2436 and 2713, respectively.

I have some pics in my thread, post no. 24.

I still have both styles of mounts sitting on the bench. Since my last update, however, I picked up a V8 engine so now I have to rethink it. I decided I was already cutting the exhaust and driveline, so may aswell upgrade the power plant and do it one time instead of twice.

Current problem to resolve is that my little 110v welder doesn't seem to be penetrating the frame mounts very well so I'm researching upgrade options to a 220v. I'm find a few places where I tried to go the cheap/short route and in the end, should have just gotten the right tool or part for the job. (Update: Ended up solving this problem with a thicker extension cable and I used a 20A circuit from the house instead of the 15A in the garage. The Lincoln 140 seems to be doing a nice job now)

Oh and trying to get this thing to run. I switched it from TBI back to carbureted. Waiting on a starter to arrive since the one I was given with the engine was DOA. Gotta love craigslist "deals"

[gigamanx]

Some setbacks on the project this week. Expensive lessons, unfortunately. I took the engine from the S10 only to realize its a 2.8 not a 4.3L V6. That means the transmission doesn't fit, most of the components on it are not usable. Its basically a piece of junk IMO. Do people even buy those things?

Onto the V8 craigslist "deal" it looks like I need to get all new accessories and brackets on the front. New torque converter, new transmission...yeah its really adding up quickly and the truck fund is currently empty. I now have to consider if I need to replace the rear end since the current one might not handle the horsepower of the v8 engine.

I guess I'll start by cleaning up all this fluid I spilled trying to pull the engine out

[Cuttin up]

Man thats no fun. Good news is if you are not set on the serpentine accessory drive the 4.3 trucks had, the older small block vbelt style setup is plentiful and relatively inexpensive in the resto aftermarket or in many junkyards. The trans is the part that sucks. Depending on what you want/need the price can climb pretty quick. The rear in the truck will be just fine with a v8 in front of it as long as you are not launching it on slicks off a transbrake.

These projects are fun but when you hit snags like this it drives you crazy. Your progress has been awesome considering you say this is your first major endeavor. I'm enjoying following along.

[OutlawDrifter]

Just run the rear end as is until you have the funds to replace it with what you want. As stated above, unless you are launching hard or having extreme traction, it will be fine. They 7.5" ring gear 10-bolt in my 425rwhp manual tranny Z28 was still going strong...albeit a bit noisy...when I replaced it with an 8.8 hybrid unit.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by gigamanx

Some setbacks on the project this week. Expensive lessons, unfortunately. I took the engine from the S10 only to realize its a 2.8 not a 4.3L V6.

sheesh.