The Story Of A Cummins Suburban (Lots Of Pics)

[1985-GMC]

Originally Posted by MaxPF

D00d, just rebuild the 4WD 4500. Doing stuff twice SUCKS and wastes money. Trust me, I know

Yeah you're probably right. I'm not there yet so I guess I'll see what happens. Though the only real extra expense would be having the rear driver shaft shortened twice.

Originally Posted by MaxPF

Huh... I don't remember ever doing a Cummins swap thread over there

Yeah you're right. It was 4btswaps, you just posted the link on ck5. I'm on way too many forums

[MaxPF]

Hmm, well, I s'pose I could post a build thread up here. I would have done it on CK5, but I ain't willing to pay $25 a year for the privilege. I also have no way of fixing the pics on 4BTswaps since the posts have limited edit time.

[mosesburb]

I would like to start off by thanking ryanroo for the truck of the month nomination. I haven't been around much lately, but I got a text from the other Ryan saying it had been nominated and was actually getting some votes. Ol 'roo had some very kind words to say about the Sub, but honestly, the only reason it is getting any votes is because his truck isn't finished and thus not eligible for the contest. Anyway, if you'd like to throw a vote in the hat for it, you can do so HERE

Ok, so times have been a bit hectic around here lately. More accurately, lately would be the last six or seven months. It started with my wife's truck needing paint. That simple. Anyone who has priced paint recently knows a decent paint job costs a ton of money. I found that it was less expensive to buy a vehicle with good paint rather than pay for paint on the existing vehicle. That went well. Found a sweet little truck with a straight body and good paint. After a good detail we were in business. Then everything(!!) else on the truck decided to give me grief. Finally got everything working well and she is happy with it. In the meantime, my daily decides oil to the top end of the motor is no longer needed. I tried a few things and determined nothing easy was going to fix it, so it sits waiting for a motor (which is in the garage patiently waiting to be put in the game). Ironically, my wife's old truck with the bad paint is still putting in work daily serving as my daily while I deal with everything else and my truck sits waiting. In amongst here my buddy Lance's 70 Suburban came in for a cam change. It ran good but had way too much cam in it for what it was in. The cam change turned into much more and its mail was forwarded to my place for about three months. Along the way, it went to the trans shop to get its shift points fine tuned and I snuck out with the family for a day on the trail. On the way home my truck decided to spit the dowel pin out and blow it through the timing gear case. Google "killer dowel pin" for an explanation of what happened. After I took care of that, I noticed I had coolant seeping out of a couple head bolts on the Cummins. That is something typically associated with a high mile head gasket. Mine is only a few years old. The general consensus was to retorque the head bolts and it should last for a while. The words "should" and "awhile" used in the same sentence really doesn't work well with how we use this thing so off with the head again. Everything looked fine except the wet head bolts, and went back together with a new Cummins gasket and all new head bolts. In the mean time, Lance took his Suburban on his typical test drive down the Baja Peninsula in old Mexico chasing a race truck in the NORRA 1000. He got about seventy miles south of Ensenada and it snapped a rocker stud. With no easy fix available, he brought the truck home and he jumped in his wife's brand new car and turned around and went right back to Mexico. I finally got my Suburban back into the running column and now his hooptie sits here awaiting repairs. Ugh.

So that is the quick explanation of why there have been no updates lately--seriously. That list was only the high points with very little detail of the rest of the crap. Anyway, I have a bunch of stuff to post and figure if I don't get after it, it will never happen. I actually loaded these pics a couple months ago and haven't had a chance to post them up. So, without further adieu, here we go!! This post will make more sense if you do a quick review of the last picture post I did where we traveled on an old section of rail bed. I didn't realize this trip would relate to things on that trip, but was pleasantly surprised when I found the relationship between them.

The destination for the day was a place called Sheep's Crossing. It was a bridge used by sheep herders to get their flocks safely across the Verde River back in the day.

The ride started out through some scenic, higher altitude desert.



A nice view of what we are dropping into:



First view of the bridge:



The bridge:



Now comes something I didn't know. This bridge is an imposter. The original was replaced by this structure long AFTER the sheep herders quit using the original bridge. I still have no idea why we spent the money to build this if it is not used for herding sheep across the river. It is not wide enough for a vehicle to cross, only pedestrians or bicycles. Once I learn this, I am no longer interested in the new span. Any intuitive followers of the adventures around here will know I am now interested in what is left of the original structure. Good thing for me and the content of this thread, there are some remnants to be found.

Here you can see an abutment for the original bridge:



This is an original abutment from the far side of the bridge:



Remnants of the cabling from the original bridge behind the far abutment:



Interesting albeit somewhat sketchy anchoring of the cabling...

Anyone who know about cable will recognize this is not normal cable used to support bridge spans:



The people who built the original span were not wealthy individuals. They were ranchers who could not afford to lose sheep to the river while running them from winter grazing grounds in the south to the summer grazing grounds in the north country. That being the case, they had to use what they had available to keep costs reasonable. One of the most expensive things they would need is the cabling. The resourcefulness of the ranchers came through in the use of used tram cable for the bridge support. Yep, the tram cable from the Blue Belle Mine found its way across a couple ranges, down a big hill and across a couple abutments to support the bridge for their sheep to safely cross the river. That is why the cable is smooth on the outside. It is designed to have a heavy tram car run on it. So very cool to go see something that I thought was an original bridge, only to find it is a recent copy/interpretation of the original, but then find so many remnants of the original bridge lurking in the shadows of the new span. Cool stuff.

On our way out, we found this saguaro that decided it had enough and was leaving too:

[Average Joe]

Cactus gettin the heck out. Lol
Cool history on the cable for the old bridge. People were tougher and more resilient back then. I think with each generation people get softer. I digg hearing stories like this.
Thanks again for the pix and text and good luck with your ride(s).

[lower50's]

Thanks for the story and picks, I too love the old original stuff. Could ATV's fit across the new bridge? Maybe that's why it was rebuilt.

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by Average Joe

Cactus gettin the heck out. Lol
Cool history on the cable for the old bridge. People were tougher and more resilient back then. I think with each generation people get softer. I digg hearing stories like this.
Thanks again for the pix and text and good luck with your ride(s).

Thanks on all counts!! Yeah, I'd agree with that assessment of generational softness. Obviously not in all cases, but as a whole, I believe it is quite accurate.

Originally Posted by lower50's

Thanks for the story and picks, I too love the old original stuff. Could ATV's fit across the new bridge? Maybe that's why it was rebuilt.

An ATV might fit on the bridge itself, but there are pilings blocking access to the entrance of the bridges for anything wider than a narrow animal or something on two wheels.

[justcuz]

Nice little trip, photos and narrative.
I take it neither you or Lance made it up to the expo this year.
I thought you did KDP metal tab and bolt retainer, I am sure you looked at it prior to your engine installation, pretty sure you included a picture of the pin in the build thread.

Soon your going to have to start teaching your son to drive the Suburban and all the finer points of off roading.

[1985-GMC]

Nice pictures as always! That cactus is awesome haha

[tune_1]

Enjoyed the story about the use of your Suburban and the interesting things and history that you find. Keep it up.

Dwight

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by justcuz

Nice little trip, photos and narrative.
I take it neither you or Lance made it up to the expo this year.
I thought you did KDP metal tab and bolt retainer, I am sure you looked at it prior to your engine installation, pretty sure you included a picture of the pin in the build thread.

Soon your going to have to start teaching your son to drive the Suburban and all the finer points of off roading.

The boy has driven a fair bit on my lap over the years. he is getting tall enough to actually try it for himself soon. I made it to Overland Expo this year. I had not done anything with the KDP for two reasons. One was that in my early reading, information stated it was a problem on '94-'05 engines. Mine isn't one of those. The other (and the one that unfortunately held the most weight )was a guy at the local Cummins dealer who came highly recommended had given me a wrong timing cover gasket years ago and he claimed that all of those motors used that gasket. He ran my engine serial number and said that the engine had an upfit done on it and the gear case had been changed. That meant that it had the updated gear housing with the shouldered hole and the KDP could not fall out. Done and done. Well, that whole story was bull****. The gear case is stock and the story he fed me was to cover his ass for giving me a gasket for a P pump instead of a VE pump motor. Unfortunately at that time (13+ years ago), I didn't know about the KDP and just changed the gasket and crank seal without addressing the KDP. Never went back into it because I thought it had the shouldered hole.

Originally Posted by 1985-GMC

Nice pictures as always! That cactus is awesome haha

Thanks!! Yeah, made me laugh.

Originally Posted by tune_1

Enjoyed the story about the use of your Suburban and the interesting things and history that you find. Keep it up.

Dwight

Thanks!! Glad you enjoyed it!!

[justcuz]

So the new cover has the shouldered hole to keep the dowel pin in place?

How was the Expo?
I see Rob Bonney took the Scout Traveler project up there, I bet it looked great in person.

Sorry to hear about Lances rocker arm stud, I think old blue likes living it your house. It gets more love there!

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by justcuz

So the new cover has the shouldered hole to keep the dowel pin in place?

As far as I know, there are no oem gear housings for a 12v that have the enclosed dowel pin hole. Just the late VP 24v's. The "newest" design I've seen on the 12v gear housing offers a raised area on one side of the dowel pin but no actual coverage. In all the design they put into these, this was sure over looked.

[Dieselwrencher]

It sounds like you have my kind of luck with vehicles. That bridge cabling is very interesting. Thanks for sharing those pics. Do you have any other big trips planned for this year?

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by justcuz

So the new cover has the shouldered hole to keep the dowel pin in place?

How was the Expo?
I see Rob Bonney took the Scout Traveler project up there, I bet it looked great in person.

Sorry to hear about Lances rocker arm stud, I think old blue likes living it your house. It gets more love there!

Yeah, I think the registration gets sent to my address now....

Expo was windy as hell.

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

As far as I know, there are no oem gear housings for a 12v that have the enclosed dowel pin hole. Just the late VP 24v's. The "newest" design I've seen on the 12v gear housing offers a raised area on one side of the dowel pin but no actual coverage. In all the design they put into these, this was sure over looked.

You're statement makes me wonder what I actually saw. I could have sworn I saw a slight shoulder at the end of the hole. I measured both sides and the front was .010(??) smaller than the back. I do have a tendency to believe you though....

I did apply sleeve retainer to the new pin and staked the hole in the gear housing anyway, so hopefully I never hear from it again.

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

It sounds like you have my kind of luck with vehicles. That bridge cabling is very interesting. Thanks for sharing those pics. Do you have any other big trips planned for this year?

Yeah, we do have something coming up. Looks like northern cal this time. My wife has been wanting to go there for some time, but it is not a close destination, so in years past, we chose closer destinations due to my available time. I haven't had time to post anything from our crazy trip last year. I need more free time....

[hgs_notes]

The thread aint dead!

But usually there is more. Much more. This is like a teaser. Mosesburb-lite

Less filling!

Tastes great!

[justcuz]

Bad things happen when you come to California!
Depending on where you go, if you need any info for some little side trips, let me know.
I'm actually in Southern California but I've pretty much seen most of the state.

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by justcuz

Bad things happen when you come to California!
Depending on where you go, if you need any info for some little side trips, let me know.
I'm actually in Southern California but I've pretty much seen most of the state.

So it looks like the destination this summer is Northern California. Looking for suggestions/recommendations of things to see and or not see. I am thinking we will come into Yosemite from 395 and back out that way to avoid traffic in the valley, then Bodie, Tahoe, over to the coast/redwoods. Maybe back through Lassen NP and possibly through some of Nevada.

Anyone who has followed along in my build thread knows we run with little to no plans and what little plans we do have often get changed/abandoned as well. We have never been in this area before so any suggestions/recommendations of things/trails/people/areas to see and or avoid would be appreciated.

[spacedebris]

well, while your in Yosemite, exit the south entrance on HWY 41 and go a couple miles south to Sugar Pine. There is a small rail road called the "Yosemite Mountain Sugar Pine Railroad" that you can ride through a grove of Giant Sequoia. It is a great place to take the family and have a picnic in the giant trees.

And if your there and need a place to stay overnight, the summerdale campground near the entrance to Yosemite is my favorite campground. Not much there but a creek but it is quiet and cheap compared to the parks camp grounds.

[spacedebris]

Also, If your interested in history and gold, you may want to consider driving HWY 49. Start in Oakhurst and you can take Hwy 49 all the way up into N. Cal to just north of Reno. Great drive, lots of history in many of the old gold camps and towns that started during the gold rush. Pretty country. Traffic is not usually too bad and there are a lot of sightseeing locals throughout.

[ryanroo]

That cactus pic made my lunch break.

[Dieselwrencher]

I'd like to see a pic of the burb in a red wood tree tunnel.

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by spacedebris

well, while your in Yosemite, exit the south entrance on HWY 41 and go a couple miles south to Sugar Pine. There is a small rail road called the "Yosemite Mountain Sugar Pine Railroad" that you can ride through a grove of Giant Sequoia. It is a great place to take the family and have a picnic in the giant trees.

And if your there and need a place to stay overnight, the summerdale campground near the entrance to Yosemite is my favorite campground. Not much there but a creek but it is quiet and cheap compared to the parks camp grounds.

Originally Posted by spacedebris

Also, If your interested in history and gold, you may want to consider driving HWY 49. Start in Oakhurst and you can take Hwy 49 all the way up into N. Cal to just north of Reno. Great drive, lots of history in many of the old gold camps and towns that started during the gold rush. Pretty country. Traffic is not usually too bad and there are a lot of sightseeing locals throughout.

Great info!! I'm not sure which direction we are going to be traveling in that area, but I really like the sound of that HWY49. If I can adjust some details, that sounds like a really neat drive.

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

I'd like to see a pic of the burb in a red wood tree tunnel.

I have ten bucks that says the hole in the tree was not cut with Suburban clearance....

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by mosesburb

I have ten bucks that says the hole in the tree was not cut with Suburban clearance....

Ok, maybe you'll have to nose up to the hole. Just don't hit the sides.

[justcuz]

Maybe a drive up,Whitney Portal Rd. Copper Top Barbeque in Big Pines, then up to the Bristlecone Pine Forest visitor center and drive around and out the road that drops you in to Bishop. Mammoth, June Lake Loop, Twin Lakes out of Bridgeport, after Bodie. Tioga Pass into Yosemite, then catch 49. There is a State Park on 49 that has a little town with a blacksmith shop and a mill under construction along the river. I can look it up if you need the name. I will think of more.

[justcuz]

Sutters Mill, Coloma and the Marshall Gold State Park.